Is my thinking upside down

[Little Wee Horse Farm]

Gotta question: IF a grey that eventually fades to white is called a "true grey," then what is a horse called that is born a particular shade of grey & stays that way for his whole life? I have known a horse like this.

Years ago, an experienced breeder told me the horse that stays a particular shade of gray is a "true grey." Now I hear it the other way around? What then, if not true grey, would you call this horse that doesn't fade?

Would it be proper to call the one that fades a "fading grey." How does it really go? Ask me about appys --- there I might know something!

:

 

[mizbeth]

I have heard the same thing about greys you have. True greys are born another color and then turn grey/white as they get older. I have also seen horses that are grey at birth and stay that color. I would be more curious to hear about the ones born grey that stay grey that have no "true grey" in the background. Where that grey comes from, the base color? Black? I know of one particular horse born grey and white pinto out of two red and white pinto parents. I have always been curious about him and his color.

Beth

 

[small herd]

Are you thinking of Steel Grey ? I have heard that term before used on minis.

 

[backwoodsnanny]

I will be watching this thread closely as I would like to know this as well. I have been told as you have that if they are born another color and turn grey they are a true grey but do wonder about those who are a steel gray color through their entire life.

What about appys who do this as well? I have two two year olds one is light grey dapples and white spots and the other is a a steel grey body with black and white spots on her bum and white socks she has no pinto in her background that I can find but thought the socks were a dead giveaway. Now she is roaning on her face and other parts of her body and looks to be turning white. Cant wait to clip her to see what is under there.

 

[KenBen]

On the subject of greys, here is a mare that was born reddish brown. today she is a bluish grey with black legs. Her winter coat shows black hairs. So what would you call this type of grey?

Ken

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Grey is Grey- there is no difference between a horse that takes most of it's life to go white and one that goes white almost immediately- unless there are other factors, such as Silver, at work.

All Greys are Grey- ie a coloured horse going white.

They may turn from Bay to White in the womb- so you would have to check to see what base colour they are.

They may take all their lives and still not be white when they die.

There is no difference genetically.

I had a mare who stayed more or less the same colour for fifteen years- BUT when she went she went snow white very fast.

After fifteen years it took some getting used to!!!

 

[Little Wee Horse Farm]

So then, why the term "true grey?" Is this term, then, unnecessary? It seems to distinguish something from something, but why, if all greys are grey. If this is the case, Rabbit, I wonder why it is used at all? Not aruging, just wondering..................k

 

[Becky]

I agree with Rabbit 100%! Grey is grey. A grey horse can be born 'colored' in appearance and grey very slowly or it can be born grey, but yet will have another base color.

So then, why the term "true grey?"

Many times silver dapples are called 'grey' in error. So people will often refer to a grey horse as 'true grey'.

 

[MiniHoofBeats]

Ohhh now that makes sense, to know the difference for registration purposes that one is a silver dapple and the other is a true grey aka not silver dapple. There I can see using the term "True Grey" but I don't think true grey should be used to describe anything else such as a horse that fades to white or a horse that stays steel grey...grey is grey with no dappling.

KenBen - and everyone else correct me if I am wrong but is she not a blue roan?? I hate the term blue roan when the horse is really a grey color but someone thought it up...lol...

 

[Miniv]

What confuses me with the AMHA color system is that often it's the horse's ORIGINAL color that is listed in the stud book and on their papers. Then, when you go look at the horse and it's a mature age, it's turned or turning White!

We used to own a Blue Roan Pinto mare who had the graying gene. She passed it on to two of her foals. SHE was listed as a Blue Roan Pinto, but her permed papers showed that almost all of her color was faded out. And when I registered her fillies, I specified that they were turning..... when I got the papers back - AMHA had just put down the word "roaning". AARRRGGG!

MA

 

[lyn_j]

[SIZE=14pt]Grey is grey.... some people mistake silver dapple for grey.... it isnt. Just because the end result is a grey-ish color. I believe that the mare pictureed above is not grey at all rather a silver buckskin.[/SIZE]

Lyn

 

[Sue_C.]

I know of one particular horse born grey and white pinto out of two red and white pinto parents. I have always been curious about him and his color.

I'd bet my booties that one or both of this mare's parents carried silver, as red can do that.

:

The biggest problem with the minis especially, is the misleading "registered as" colours many of our horses have in their backgrounds. There are still many, many people who call silver dapples, grey horses... Sight-wise, they are correct, genetically...they are not.

Grey is Grey- there is no difference between a horse that takes most of it's life to go white and one that goes white almost immediately- unless there are other factors, such as Silver, at work.All Greys are Grey- ie a coloured horse going white.

They may turn from Bay to White in the womb- so you would have to check to see what base colour they are. They may take all their lives and still not be white when they die. There is no difference genetically.

Exactly, and very well said.

There are several nicknames for grey horses, that also get folks confused. They generally refer to the "colours of grey" the horse will sometimes take on it's journey to white...should it ever get there.

Rose-grey--A reddish-pink-tinged grey, most light bays and chestnuts will take this tone.

Steel-grey--Many blacks and dark bays are called this, in the beginning of the greying process, when the white, and black hairs are about 50/50.

Dapple-grey--This one is most commonly mistaken with silver-dapples, easily so, as the names themselves are confusing. (I reallyprefer to use Rabbitfizz's term, silver-black) The horse has usually gotten quite white over the top half, but there are dark points, and beautiful big dark dapples down the sides and hips.

There are more, I'm sure, but these are the first that came to mind.

What about appys who do this as well?

That, is a whold different ball-game, and another completely different set of genetics. Unless of course, one has bred appys with greys...and that, in my opinion, is a waste, as the colour will most likely to be lost. That is why in the "real" Appaloosa world, an appaloosa breeder would never dream of breeding grey horses into their programs.

 

[Ashley]

The mare pictured to me is a true gray.

MiniV- We had that same problem when we went to registured our gray foals. They would not let us registured them gray instead registured them bay roan, which she was not. So what we did is in the markings section on the papers we just listed "may change color" that way there was also no questions from the stewards at shows either.

 

[CharmedMinis]

Interesting thread, and it all makes sense to me.

[SIZE=12pt]KenBen-- I also am pretty darn sure that your mare is Silver Buckskin, I will agree with Lyn on that one 100%!!![/SIZE]

 

[KenBen]

Ohhh now that makes sense, to know the difference for registration purposes that one is a silver dapple and the other is a true grey aka not silver dapple. There I can see using the term "True Grey" but I don't think true grey should be used to describe anything else such as a horse that fades to white or a horse that stays steel grey...grey is grey with no dappling.

KenBen - and everyone else correct me if I am wrong but is she not a blue roan?? I hate the term blue roan when the horse is really a grey color but someone thought it up...lol...

A true blue roan has a very dark head. As for Appaloosas they all seem to have what is called a roaning gene.

Ken

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Just from the picture, Ken's mare looks Grey, BUT to be Grey you must have a Grey parent, so how old is she, and what colours are her parents???

 

[Reble]

I agree grey is grey

:

My husband and I always wondered why they called a grey horse blue roan,

which to him look grey.

We breed dogs and silver blue is just another name for grey.

Grey is Grey

I guess, just our opinion fancier names sell better.

:

:saludando:

 

[Little Wee Horse Farm]

Ken Ben -- Just FYI -- App roaning is different genetically from what is commonly known as roan. As app breeders, we won't have a regular roan in our program because it dilutes the pattern we are breeding for. A roan is full-form, however, is beautiful, just not desirable for a color breeder.

This quote is from the site equinecolor.com:

"The Roan pattern is caused by a dominant gene, so a horse must have a Roan parent to be a Roan. Some Roans are very subtle but generally there is no mistaking the horse is Roan. This type of roaning should not be confused with the roaning that occurs with the Leopard Complex (Appaloosa), Rabicano or Sabino patterns. Those types of roaning are genetically separate from this pattern of Roaning and have very different physical characteristics."

The site is also very educational as to roaning in general. Anyone interested should take a look there. It also goes into the issue of grey. And, yup, it says a grey is a grey. So, I guess there really is no need for the term "true grey." It seems they are all "true grey" so if some aren't any different than the normal, why would it be called "true?" It isn't like non-fading black that won't fade & distinguishes the color, by being "true black." Grey is grey is grey. Can we stop calling them "true greys" then???

 

[KenBen]

Just from the picture, Ken's mare looks Grey, BUT to be Grey you must have a Grey parent, so how old is she, and what colours are her parents???

Her mother is a grey mare and her sire is a blood bay. The term silver buckskin. Can she really be that. Her winter coat shows alot of black hairs.

Ken

 

[Little Wee Horse Farm]

KenBen --- She must, then, be a grey!!