Instead of "painful" Mare stare

[solupe]

I was woundering..... due to the high rate of loss of unattended birth by our special little mares.

Is it possible to induce labour when one is available and then have the foal delivired on our own timetable?

Is this done? If not, why not? If the mare is due why not go get the foal?

 

[Robin_C]

Horse breeders should learn this chant about their mares: "There are no due dates in horses....there are no due dates in horses...there are no due dates in horses." There is a RANGE of dates in which your mare could have her baby safely. For a mini perhaps 290 days forward, and one can certainly use 320 days in a mini as an average for those dates, but just because your mare goes OVER 320 days does not mean she is overdue. She may be taking her own sweet time (well..actually the baby is taking HIS own sweet time), but she is NOT overdue as there is no such thing.

In horses the foal determines the day of birth, that is when his lungs are mature enough and he starts emitting hormones into the mare's system which indicate to her body that the time is right. Once the mare receives this hormonal message, she can delay the actual delivery for up to 48-72 hours if necessary so that she delivers at a "safe" time when she feels secure and comfortable enough to put herself in that vulnerable position of being down and being in labor.

Humans on the other hand have lots of technology available to them which allows them to determine whether human babies are mature enough to be born, so induction of labor is not uncommon. Not so in the horse, so induction should only be considered when continued pregnancy endangers the health of the dam or for some other dire medical condition as determined by a veterinarian and NOT for the convenience of the owner. You've waited this long....what's another week or so. Sooner or later a baby will be forthcoming....though I do know how hard it is to wait to meet the little fella (as I am sitting here watching my own mare at 341 days!!!).

Robin C

 

[solupe]

I was thinking of doing this when all the signs are there......also bad idea?

I do not mind the waiting, that is not my reason for wanting to get the foals out. It is because, I have too many dead foals. I can not be there for them 24 hours a day, that is all.

 

[Minimor]

The problem is, the the signs may be there, and then the mare still doesn't foal for 9 or 10 days--we had one like that this year. Since the foal's lungs are still developing in the last few days prior to birth, the mare may have all the signs that she is ready to foal, yet the foal may be another 9 days away from being ready to be born. So yes, I would say it is still a bad idea.

Somewhere I think there were trials done on inducing labor in mares. The resulting foals were born with a lot of problems (immature lungs). This was talked about on another board awhile ago; I don't have firsthand knowledge of who did the study, but apparently after trying to save some very ill foals the researchers determined that inducing labor in mares was not a good thing to do.

 

[Miniv]

In addition to not knowing how well developed the foal is......because each pregnancy can be different with the same mare, from year to year......the other risk with inducing would be the positioning of the foal. If that foal is not in perfect foaling "nose-dive" position and you induce, you are risking a horrible distocia.....in my opinion.

MA

 

[miniaddiction]

Yea I also read that inducing labour can cause red bag and dystocia.... not a good idea IMO

It makes sense really when you think about it, the foal needs to get itself into the diving out position....

 

[qtrmoonfarm]

Inducing a mare is ASKING for disaster, retained placenta & dystocia nearly guaranteed..you might be ready but baby won't be...just remember, EVERY DAY IS ONE DAY CLOSER..as we say lol I like this quote by a vet in Alabama, he recently told some clients of ours that " the due date is the day the mare foals" :aktion033:

 

[schutzandwhinnies]

I can understand your concept of wanting to be pro-active to avoid deaths and since that idea has been ruled out because of safety reasons to the mare and foal then you could try what we did with our mare. We had the whole family on shifts to watch her on the monitor. My daughter would take the middle of the night shift and wake up every hour by the alarm and check the monitor and I was on shift watching early morning and the husband had to take his turn (against his will :bgrin ) Our foal was born, but now we are taking shifts to watch him as he colicked today and the vet had to come out, so I am on shift right now and Maddy will take the once an hour tonight till we think he is out of danger.

If you could demand family participation you might be able to "shift" everyone and if you put it on the web then you could even organize a watch on the web with board members all over the globe are able to watch and call and wake you if something is happening as it might be the middle of the day where they live or other extended family that might be available. (promise them dinner, a starbucks card etc...) It might not cut all the losses down, but it could sure put a dent in some of them. Just some ideas :saludando:

 

[wpsellwood]

You could put them on live feed to the internet and others would watch for you??? Wouldnt that help you out some?

 

[tagalong]

It is because, I have too many dead foals.

Too many? How did they die? Born dead? "Too many dead foals" may mean something else is going on that you may not be aware of...

I am currently on mare stare with a mare who has obviously read the textbook - nice for a change - and has happily gone through all the signs that foaling is imminent... and she has been this way for 3 weeks.

The foal - so far - does not feel the time is right.

Horse breeders should learn this chant about their mares: "There are no due dates in horses....there are no due dates in horses...there are no due dates in horses."

THANK YOU, Robin. I have said this in other threads where people post about their mares foaling early - say, a week before their "due date".... we have no such thing here. We simply start watching at 290 days... signs or no signs.

 

[Walbon Acres]

A friend of mine had a foal born and the mare had no milk. They tried everything to get her to come to her milk and finally the vet suggested that she get a nurse mare. She got on the internet and found a place that has nurse mares. The person told her that they were getting ready to induce labor on 2 mares that day. Has anyone else heard of this!!!????????? What becomes of the foals?????!!!!!! Does anyone know!!!???

 

[rabbitsfizz]

"Nurse Mares" is a pet hate of mine. We do not have them in Britain (and, believe me, we have some very expensive Racehorse born here) and I am not sure about Europe but I would ban the farms if I could.

I think it is DISGUSTING no matter how "well" the farm is managed or how well the animals are cared for.

To say that one foal is worth more than another is morally wrong.

It is turning mares into machines for our benefit.

Much like the PMU farms.

However well they they are run, it is wrong to do this and there is very viable alternative.

I cannot wait for them to be shut down.

 

[mmmorgans]

I think you should let nature take its course. I had two mares due exactly the same day - hand bred - One foaled April 21st the other on May 8th - so due dates are only an estimate. Your mare will foal when everything is ready - just try to be patient.

 

[Colagirl]

"Nurse Mares" is a pet hate of mine. We do not have them in Britain (and, believe me, we have some very expensive Racehorse born here) and I am not sure about Europe but I would ban the farms if I could.

I think it is DISGUSTING no matter how "well" the farm is managed or how well the animals are cared for.

To say that one foal is worth more than another is morally wrong.

It is turning mares into machines for our benefit.

Much like the PMU farms.

However well they they are run, it is wrong to do this and there is very viable alternative.

I cannot wait for them to be shut down.

You may not have them in england.........but race horse yards all over england certainly use them they have the mares shipped over from Ireland....mostly irish cobs as they are such good mothers and milk producers. I used to live close by one of these serrogate nursing dam farms so I know it is big business all over europe and a LOT do in fact go to england to raise foals for the race horse industry there.

I certainly agree with your sentiments tho and am totally against it.

 

[billiethekid40]

I do not mind the waiting, that is not my reason for wanting to get the foals out. It is because, I have too many dead foals. I can not be there for them 24 hours a day, that is all.

Here is my take on it. If you can't watch the mares enough, then find someone to watch for you, or don't breed the mares at all! Its simple really. If you can't attend the births, or have someone else attend the births, then there should not be any pregnant mares at all. YOU make the decision to breed the mare, she didn't need to be bred, so its YOUR responsibility to make sure someone is there. Its not just the foal you can lose, many mares are lost to foaling difficulties as well. Could you bear the thought of your mare dieing in labor all alone and in pain because you "can't watch enough"?

 

[Mercysmom]

I am currently on mare stare with a mare who has obviously read the textbook - nice for a change - and has happily gone through all the signs that foaling is imminent... and she has been this way for 3 weeks.

The foal - so far - does not feel the time is right.

Horse breeders should learn this chant about their mares: "There are no due dates in horses....there are no due dates in horses...there are no due dates in horses."

THANK YOU, Robin. I have said this in other threads where people post about their mares foaling early - say, a week before their "due date".... we have no such thing here. We simply start watching at 290 days... signs or no signs.

343 days here and while there are signs for my mare... loose vulva, loss of tone in the tail, jello-butt, grumpy, cranky mare who wants to be in first...our baby just isn't done cooking. A full moon and a nasty stormfront that produced inch sized hail could not bring baby on.

I had a horrible induction (with my first son) done to me as I am a diabetic and diabetic babies are stillborn if they go to term... two days of a prostagladin gel that did nothing the first night, gave me really bad contractions the second time that put me in the hospital, then three days of pitocin that did not work until the 3rd day. Believe me, I was begging for a C-section by day 2. My second son was delivered by C-section but there was some worry his lungs were not developed - he and I spent a week in the hospital and he spent an extra day. I would not want to put my mares through something like that!

I'd rather my mares and foals handle this part of development on their own - the foal will come when it is ready and it would be tragic to induce a mare if the foal arrived and could not survive due to the fact it was not developed enough. Mare stare is a pain but I am thankful I at least get to partake in it...last year Independence aborted her foal.

My brother gave me a little reminder - "all ovens do not operate at the same temperature. Doneness times are a guideline." :lol:

Denise

Silversong Farm