Hay with clover in it?

[Magnolia_dream]

The guy who usually sells us hay was gone and we went to get hay from someone else, he had clover hay, is that oki for horses? I knew that clover made them slober but i forgot why so i jus got grass hay, but the clover hay looked a lot better. Would it have been ok to buy it?

 

[Dona]

The clover that's usually in hay is the red clover. It's the small white clover that causes excessive slobbering. I feed hay that's a mixture of clover/grass/timothy/alfalfa all the time.

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[Nathan Luszcz]

Clover is a legume like alfalfa, very high in protein. It can cause slobbering, as well as throwing off mare's heat cycles if there is enough of it. I'm having a mind cramp as to which way it goes, more heat or less. The phytoestrogens would cause more heat, but I don't remember if that's the problem with it... I'll have to look it up.

 

[Robin_C]

Red and small white (sweet) clover are the two most commonly cultivated clovers in hay fields. They are highly nutritious and a good source of protein.

Both varieties can cause slobbers. White/sweet clover causes this problem not in and of itself, but when it becomes infected with a mold following damp conditions. The mold produces a substance called "slaframine" which is what causes the horse to slobber/salivate excessively. This can become quite dangerous for the horse if not attended to, and of course, removed from the source of the clover, be that in the pasture or in hay.

Red clover can cause both slobbering and photosensitivity, sometimes called "dew poisoning". Symptoms include an intense reddening and almost blistering effect of the skin, especially skin around the muzzle, nostrils and even the back of the pasterns. The chemical responsible accumulates in the liver and can also be quite dangerous, even fatal, to the horse. There are other plants which can be found in pastures and hay which can cause a photosensitivity condition which affects the white areas of the horse's body, especially on any facial white. These plants include those in the spurge and buckwheat families and are commonly found throughout the U.S.

Clover can be a good guy or a bad guy. Unfortunately, determining which one is sometimes a process of trial and error when you are purchasing hay, as many hay fields (and pastures) contain a certain amount of clover either wild-growing or cultivated purposefully.

Robin C

 

[chandab]

Red clover can cause both slobbering and photosensitivity, sometimes called "dew poisoning". Symptoms include an intense reddening and almost blistering effect of the skin, especially skin around the muzzle, nostrils and even the back of the pasterns. The chemical responsible accumulates in the liver and can also be quite dangerous, even fatal, to the horse. There are other plants which can be found in pastures and hay which can cause a photosensitivity condition which affects the white areas of the horse's body, especially on any facial white. These plants include those in the spurge and buckwheat families and are commonly found throughout the U.S.

Robin C

The photosensitivity caused by red clover is actually usually caused by excess nitrogen from putting the hay up wrong. Photosensitivity affects mostly the white areas on a horse, so horses with more white (with underlying pink skin) are more affected.

A friend had it happen to her horse, by the time they realized what was going on, the mare was in anaphylactic shock and ended up having to be put down. Long, ugly story that I don't wish to go into details on. They know it was photosensitivity, as two other horses on the same place eating the same hay came down with it; they had less white, so were able to recover with two months of confinement out of sunlight (only out on pasture after dark, otherwise in totally dark stalls).

 

[Robin_C]

All clovers, as legumes, are nitrate fixers which have an ongoing relationship with bacteria in their roots. The bacteria help them to convert the nitrogen into beneficial amino acid and nitrates. Most farmers utilize clovers and legumes for just this reason as they are helpful to other plants in the same field and actually help support spring grasses. Think about fertilizer...it usually contains a lot of nitrates. Nitrate fixing plants can be dangerous to horses when eaten in large quantities, but cows are usually more sensitive to this than equines. Photosensitivity might be one of the side effects of nitrate ingestion ???, but this is generally not referred to in the literature as the cause of Theiler's disease, photosensitivity, dew poisoning in horses.

Cornell University report on photosensitivity, misc. livestock

We had multiple cases of photosensitivity in our white-faced horses last year. It was awful and I don't want to repeat that again. Another mini farm and I used hay cut from the same field and both encountered the problem at the same time. Once the hay was discontinued, the problem resolved itself with no additional cases. No clover in these Florida fields, so the causative agent was probably spurge or a variety of buckwheat. Some references indicate that the chemical agent is only active in living plants and once cut, the danger is lessened. I suspect, as you said, Chanda that when hay is put up and sold very quickly out of the field, that these particular plants had not lost all their punch, thus our medical crisis. Wish I had taken some photos of the horses, as this was quite an ugly condition. Too busy applying medicine to think about it!!

Robin C

 

[chandab]

All clovers, as legumes, are nitrate fixers which have an ongoing relationship with bacteria in their roots. The bacteria help them to convert the nitrogen into beneficial amino acid and nitrates. Most farmers utilize clovers and legumes for just this reason as they are helpful to other plants in the same field and actually help support spring grasses. Think about fertilizer...it usually contains a lot of nitrates. Nitrate fixing plants can be dangerous to horses when eaten in large quantities, but cows are usually more sensitive to this than equines. Photosensitivity might be one of the side effects of nitrate ingestion ???, but this is generally not referred to in the literature as the cause of Theiler's disease, photosensitivity, dew poisoning in horses.

Robin C

The vet in my friend's case said specifically it was due to the excess nitrogen in the clover. I really don't know or recall all the details, it's been 15 years. But, it was a horrible thing to deal with and personally wouldn't risk it; even if 9 times out of 10 it is safe to feed clover, just personal preference (mine are all pretty much air ferns anyway, so grass hay is great for them).