Following Ronnies Thread on AMHA Appendix registry

[brookhaven]

Just following up on Ronnie's thread and thought a poll would be a good start to give to AMHA BOD...

p.s. never done a poll before hope this works or appears right....

 

[Crabby-Chicken]

I am in favor of it.

 

[Michelle@wescofarms]

We're lifetime members so not leaving AMHA ever that I can see, but I would love the Appendix/Breed stock added in or Foundation added back - however it would be easiest!

 

[sfmini]

Personally I would prefer to have a breeding stock category for AMHA horses that go over. They must have two AMHA registered parents, no hardshipping into the oversize category. They then could only be bred to a permanent papered AMHA UNDER horse, and no breeding stock horses are to be shown.

 

[Songcatcher]

Personally I would prefer to have a breeding stock category for AMHA horses that go over. They must have two AMHA registered parents, no hardshipping into the oversize category. They then could only be bred to a permanent papered AMHA UNDER horse, and no breeding stock horses are to be shown.

I think this is a good MIDDLE GROUND/COMPROMISE. None of us can ever get EVERYTHING we want. I would love to see everyone be satisfied with getting part of what they want and be happy that someone else is getting part of what they want also. :aktion033:

 

[Bluebell]

No. But if the height limit was set at 35 inches i would. I feel that is a fair height for 2 honest AMHA horses to possibly have an offspring that goes over. JMHO.

 

[JMS Miniatures]

No. But if the height limit was set at 35 inches i would. I feel that is a fair height for 2 honest AMHA horses to possibly have an offspring that goes over. JMHO.

I know of one horse that went way over, like 42" and this same horse had all 34" and under background in its bloodlines, this same horse was suppose to be AMHA registered but obviously that didn't happen lol.

I think if there is a limit it should be like 38", just like AMHR does it. IMO if you go smaller then that alot of people would complain about it.

I'm all for the appendix idea, I just think AMHR horses should be kept out of the picture and focous on the taller AMHA horses. As for shows adding classes, I can't see it happen, but heck you never know.

 

[HGFarm]

Would like to see it as breeding stock only..........

 

[mistyrose]

At the very least I would like to see a very big price break to hardship in the offspring of two past AMHA horses if it parent qualifies. I say past AMHA horses because one parent would have revoked papers do to going over in height. The people doing this are the ones who are following the rules.

 

[Ronnie]

Thanks for the poll Merry!

I hope everyone votes because I will print it out with the rest of my data and information for the BOD.

Ronnie

 

[wpsellwood]

Personally I would prefer to have a breeding stock category for AMHA horses that go over. They must have two AMHA registered parents, no hardshipping into the oversize category. They then could only be bred to a permanent papered AMHA UNDER horse, and no breeding stock horses are to be shown.

I agree with Jody

 

[ClickMini]

This seems like a very good, reasonable compromise. I have a 36-1/4" mare that I didn't bring permanent because she outgrew her papers. She is Parent Qualified to two minis who are 31-3/4" and 32-1/4" respectively and as far back as her pedigree goes there are none over 33" and that is only one of them, the rest are all in the 32" range. So yes, they certainly can and do outgrow their expected adult heights on occasion. I would definitely bring her permanent into an Appendix registry.

 

[SunQuest]

Personally I would prefer to have a breeding stock category for AMHA horses that go over. They must have two AMHA registered parents, no hardshipping into the oversize category. They then could only be bred to a permanent papered AMHA UNDER horse, and no breeding stock horses are to be shown.

I fully agree with the above. I have been saying this for many many years. After all, many breeds recognize the importance of breeing stock, but won't let them show if they don't fit the breed standard. One that comes to mind is the Paint Horse. A Paint may not have all the classic markings to make it such, but still could be a Paint (thinking of a very minimal tobiano here) and can still have other very valuable traits to pass on.

So I voted yes, but in reality I think what sfmini wrote is the ideal compromise. Keeps things serious for showing but doesn't throw away the papers on a horse.

 

[hhpminis]

I voted yes but also with a few tweeks.

I dont want to see them shown, I want a breeding stock only division. The benefit of this would be that we could maintain pedigrees on offspring that stay under and fall within the required limit of regular AMHA registration rather than being UNKNOWN.

I also would like to work on a way that AMHR horses that routinely threw offspring under 34 could be hardshipped into this appendix. I also think it should follow the same standard as AMHA as far as DNA and parent qualification. Yes this would require that AMHR horses be DNA'd. Something I am all for.

If we ever want to become a "BREED" the studbook has to have validation.

AMHR does a great job with the showing and presentation of the Over horse and I dont want to see a conflict of interest between the two registries. I just want to be able to preserve pedigree.

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

You know the more I have read about these topics and thought about it, I do think Ronnies idea is a great one however.. I am also now equally as positive that NO i wouldnt be putting any of my AMHA bred stock or over 34 stock into anything in the AMHA.

Now.. this is truly not meant as offensive or trying to start anything but it is very very clear that the oversize horse will still be looked down upon and that anything 34.25 and up will be the ugly stepsister in AMHA.

I am not arguing that point as there are very obvious lines drawn already on that one

: but knowing that and seeing it made so clear to me in the past few days I would opt not to put my hard earned dollars into supporting or being a quick financial fix to a registry whose very basic rules and core guidelines doesnt want me there in the first place.

I know everyone is looking for an answer to please the majority and I hope one is found after all the discussion here my mind was set, then changed , then set and then changed again which is the great thing about discussion

but at this moment and time as a light bulb went off in my head I am very pleased with things just the way the are -a

 

[Ronnie]

You know the more I have read about these topics and thought about it, I do think Ronnies idea is a great one however.. I am also now equally as positive that NO i wouldnt be putting any of my AMHA bred stock or over 34 stock into anything in the AMHA.

Now.. this is truly not meant as offensive or trying to start anything but it is very very clear that the oversize horse will still be looked down upon and that anything 34.25 and up will be the ugly stepsister in AMHA.

I am not arguing that point as there are very obvious lines drawn already on that one

: but knowing that and seeing it made so clear to me in the past few days I would opt not to put my hard earned dollars into supporting or being a quick financial fix to a registry whose very basic rules and core guidelines doesnt want me there in the first place.

I know everyone is looking for an answer to please the majority and I hope one is found after all the discussion here my mind was set, then changed , then set and then changed again which is the great thing about discussion

but at this moment and time as a light bulb went off in my head I am very pleased with things just the way the are -a

Lisa,

I truly hope you and anyone else that currently feels this way will change your mind again and one of the first things we need to do is get rid of the ugly stepsister syndrome you mentioned. My sincere intent is to see AMHA become an established breed registry and not just a height or "nitch" registry. I believe the American Miniature Horse as matured and evolved through selective breeding to the point where it should be considered as a true breed. True there is still some strong pony influence but that has been, and is being done mostly by serious breeders attempting to improve the breed, and a look back over the show horses from the last ten years or so will quickly show they have been very successful. I also believe that an AMHR registered horse is just as much an American Miniature Horse as an AMHA horse is. If we all face reality they are the same horses and in many cases are registered in both. I am a diehard AMHA guy and have been on the B.O.D. for six years and have just been elected to serve another three years (boy talk about a glutton for punishment), however I have also been an active member in AMHR ever since I got in the business. Janet and I joined both AMHA and AMHR at the same time, registered our farm name with both at the same time, and as a matter of fact of the first three miniatures we ever owned two were AMHR and one was AMHA.

This is getting a little long and I plan to post it with more detail on a new thread so please go read it, consider it, participate, and lets all shoot for a common goal of getting as many things fixed as we can and hang in there on the ones we can’t fix now until the time is right to fix them to.

Thanks for you valuable input!

Ronnie Clifton

 

[Miniv]

I haven't voiced my opinion before, but I did vote "yes" on the poll........because if the Appendix registry is handled carefully it could be a good thing for AMHA horses and tracking pedigree.

In my opinion the Appendix registry should be handled like a "blood-stock" registry and there is no need to allow them to be shown in AMHA sanctioned shows.

***************************************************************************************

Ronnie, the reason why I brought up the ByLaws situation previously is because of the AMHA ByLaw that specifically states what a "miniature horse" is and it specifies height. To me, that means to allow an Appendix registry, either that ByLaw should be amended OR a new ByLaw needs to be created. Either way, this could create a time-crunch. (I'm saying this as a former member of the ByLaws Committee.)

I would also highly advise you (and knowing your past with AMHA, you are very much aware of this), that when it comes to introducing a change to the ByLaws, you Lobby the committee with this.....because as you know, the committee's imput on the floor of the annual meetings are highly influencial to how the vote goes.

Ronnie, I know you are very intouch with how to tread in difficult waters, but just thought I'd throw that out there while you are working at crossing all your "t's" and dotting all your "i's"..........Wishing you all the best.

It's not going to be easy......as Tony mentioned on another Thread, he attempted something similar to this 10 years ago, and I remember that -- my husband and I were there --- but perhaps back then it just wasn't the right time.

MA

 

[FairytailGlennMinis]

I have three AMHA horses that went over. All are geldings, so unless there was a reason (like being able to show them) then no way would I bother. My 37.75" gelding was all AMHA.

 

[Buckskin gal]

I really feel badly that there are those who think there are people out there who think the over minis are something that would be viewed by any other person as an "ugly stepsister." :no: And I don't know of anyone who "looks down" on the taller minis.

I know I have both and love them all and people I know feel the same way.... so where is all this coming from? Besides, what matters is that we like what we choose to have. There are beautiful and ugly of all sizes so I don't see where size has anything to do with the beauty of a horse. Sometimes it starts sounding like there is more prejudice against the smaller ones but if some like the smaller, than that is their right the same as for the person who likes the taller mini. Why would there be a need to put any size down since size is only a preference? Just because AMHA was based on and for the 34" and under does not make them not like the taller mini, it is just their preference for the smaller ones that has made AMHA what it is. If people would stop worrying about one size being better than another and just go with what they like we wouldn't have to hear harsh words such as "ugly step sister." I wish the few who seem to have an attitude about size would just get over it and breed for the smallest most perfect horse as both AMHR andAMHA standards call for. We all don't need to like the same thing and there are those of us who love them all sizes!

: JMO Mary

 

[Songcatcher]

I really feel badly that there are those who think there are people out there who think the over minis are something that would be viewed by any other person as an "ugly stepsister." :no: And I don't know of anyone who "looks down" on the taller minis.

I know I have both and love them all and people I know feel the same way.... so where is all this coming from? Besides, what matters is that we like what we choose to have. There are beautiful and ugly of all sizes so I don't see where size has anything to do with the beauty of a horse. Sometimes it starts sounding like there is more prejudice against the smaller ones but if some like the smaller, than that is their right the same as for the person who likes the taller mini. Why would there be a need to put any size down since size is only a preference? Just because AMHA was based on and for the 34" and under does not make them not like the taller mini, it is just their preference for the smaller ones that has made AMHA what it is. If people would stop worrying about one size being better than another and just go with what they like we wouldn't have to hear harsh words such as "ugly step sister." I wish the few who seem to have an attitude about size would just get over it and breed for the smallest most perfect horse as both AMHR andAMHA standards call for. We all don't need to like the same thing and there are those of us who love them all sizes!

: JMO Mary

Mary, it seems to me that there are some people out there who are not content to let every one have their own preference as to size, but want to do all they can to put down and destroy the "other" registry. I think it would be a good thing if a person does not want to be part of it, to just stay out of it instead of trying to sabotage and put them down.

Unfortunately this bickering sometimes goes both directions. I am the proud owner of DOUBLE REGISTERED Minis and support both registries and hope for the improvement of both.