Financial info for Congress I just recieved

[~Lisa~]

This has been posted other places on the internet but I know many here in our Organization have not yet had a chance to see the expense report for the Congress this year...

I was shocked to see that the ring staff and office staff made in less then a week what many make in a month. I know they work hard but for a show that has lost money for years in a row it seems a bit spendy

Now those who are not going to Convention have a chance to look it over and voice there opinions to their directors prior to Convention

Ugh I can not get it on here if anyone knows how to load a PDF or word document file please email me andI can get it to you to post or I will just email you the info if you are interested

This is not a mini vs pony issue in any way this is a OUR REGISTRY issue I am sure the same sort of willy nilly spending is going on at Nationals as well however I do not have those reports in front of me....

You can email me at [email protected] for the info

 

[muffntuf]

I think we do need to be careful until we have all the facts on this - we cannot really discuss employees salaries, but we can talk about the show staff that is hired to run the show.

I looked at the pdf and it is not enough information for me to make informed conclusions.

 

[~Lisa~]

Trace to be clear these are not employees these are show staff hired to work either one week or 2 plain and simple they are outside people hired by us the registy not our registry employees. Any club memeber be it local or national has the right to see how their club is spending money and what was paid out for a show.

the facts are the facts this was as you know trace posted by a board memeber is it the same exact thing all the board members have gotten not made up by some random person

Well I do not believe it named anyone just said office staff one and office staff 2 and 3 and really these salaries are everyones business it is not there main income it is what WE yes WE pay them for OUR yes OUR registry shows.

There is clearly enough there for me to make an informed decision... paying someone 752 dollars for travel expenses is crazy.. I know that this year and last year I have flown literally across the country for no where near that amount.

It is crazy that so many from one area drove up and no one asked them to share fuel costs it is crazy that we paid the room (2 rooms) for Washburn photography (mistake or not)

It is easy enough to see from the info we have (which is more then any member has seen in years) that 2000 or 2300 or 1500 dollars for show staff for a week of work is a lot of money when that does not even include the thousands paid for show management. or 2300 or 1400 for ring staff

I have no issue with the show managment and have always thought the shows were run well but my god at what cost to us we have all had to tighten our belts why has the show management had free reign on a show that has lost money year after year and again I have no doubt this same crazy spending happens at Nationals as well

 

[Ashley]

I dont know if the numbers are acurrate and going by what you posted that isnt that expensive. I used to help organize a 2-3 day show in the past. The cost for that were not much less then what those figures are for a week.

People do tend to call around and find the cheapest possible, but to be honest, they are all about the same cost, and the work that is required to do can be extreamly stressfull.

 

[SweetOpal]

The figures are ridiculous. This is a 500 horse show, the total per horse to put on this show is $250 this is not some extravagant show being put on.......The stalls are $ 65 and open class is $ 30, alot of horses enter only one or 2 class's at the congress so giving that each horse enters 2 class's that is only a profit of $ 125 per horse of income and we spend double to have the show.

Our area 7 show is at a facility that is costing us $ 5k for 3 days of showing but the facility is open to us for 5 days, a day before and day after for move in and out. The staff that we have contracted with transport and fees including judges is another $5,500. We estimate our awards at $ 2,500. So for approx $ 13-15,000 with the odds and ends and expenses we will put on a full 3 day show, 2 days less than Congress, regardless if we get 100 horses or 500 that is our expenses....The total expenses for the Congress were $ 126,000.

The numbers came straight from the accountant of the registry.

 

[muffntuf]

"Well I do not believe it named anyone just said office staff one and office staff 2 and 3 and really these salaries are everyones business it is not there main income it is what WE yes WE pay them for OUR yes OUR registry shows."

Exactly - it just says office staff. I believe Lenard's contract covers his office staff, but not ours. So until I know which office staff this is - I can not draw a conclusion on it.

Lisa I am not saying sweep it under the carpet - but we need things clarified other than this spreadsheet.

Don't we use some accounting software like Quicken or Quickbooks in the office, Peachtree??? Something that should have canned reports we can get?

I can't believe we would still be doing all this by hand?????

 

[Belinda]

I think without a doubt everyone that is concerned should try and make it to the finance Committee meeting it is

Tuesday

9:00 am Finance Committee with lunch break from Noon – 1 p.m

This is where you can get your answers , to lots of your questions. I know I plan on going , as I have not made it earlier enough to sit in on it .

 

[~Lisa~]

"Exactly - it just says office staff. I believe Lenard's contract covers his office staff,

I can't believe we would still be doing all this by hand?????

Trace you seem to be missing the most important part of this sheet you have been talking about for 2 days now...

Lenards contract IS NOT ALL INCLUSIVE it is HIS PAY not including the pay for the office staff that is why the sheet from the director is listing office staff and ring staff

you knwo the ladies in the show office and your ring steward and the guy who sits with the announcer.. THose expenses again to be clear WERE NOT INCLUDED IN LENARDS CONTRACT they are seperate if they were all included no one would have a problem

Paying someone 383 dollars a day to work in a show office is for a total of 5 days is not out of line? Ashley what type of local shows do you put on that you pay your show sec and office staff those type of daily payments I will surely offer myself up for show sec or office staff in your local club

remember this does not include the show manager salary either

I can tell you that is more then we have paid for a judge on a daily fee or any other club I have known even for a 3-4 day show.. so how can anyone afford a full office staff of people being paid this much on your local level your club must have tons of money and charge an awful lot for classes to be able to break even at those costs

 

[Lmequine]

I think without a doubt everyone that is concerned should try and make it to the finance Committee meeting it is
Tuesday

9:00 am Finance Committee with lunch break from Noon – 1 p.m

This is where you can get your answers , to lots of your questions. I know I plan on going , as I have not made it earlier enough to sit in on it .

Are we allowed to ask questions during the finance meeting or just observe?

 

[Ashley]

We havent done shows for several years. However, when money wasnt extra tight the "paper work people" at the show got $250 for a weekend, this is family and for experiance level the only shows they did were the 1 or 2 that the club put on . None other. As for the pre paper work, entering all that we as a family all dontated our time to do it. And on a good show 200 horses was a lot, however it took a lot of time to get everything done prior to the show, let alone at the show.

I would say its been at least 5 years since the last show we did. The family did it to help out our club, everybody else wanted way more in costs. Plus it was the same family that work the shows that made the awards and bearly cleared anything on them. This was a cheap show, still costing around 10,000 for a 2 day show.

I do think costs can be cut in certian areas. Awards could be one area, find a small individual person who makes them and you will save alot right there. But as for the staff you get what you pay for sort of things. LIke judges, yes theres cheaper ones out there but eveybody can think of at least one judge that is bias, who is rude and inconsiderate, and so on.

 

[~Lisa~]

Ashley thanks for the info. I agree that 250 or even 350 a day for the entire office staff is not bad however according to a director we are paying 900 a day just for the office staff - remember not including the show manager- ring staff or judges 900 a day just for 3 people in the office. To me that is pretty high then you add in again only counting ring staff another $880.00 a day.... not including show stewards or judges or announcer or show manager. so in ring and office staff alone (not counting food or hotel ) it is $1780 a day.... OUCH

again to be clear that is just for 6 people 3 show office staff and 3 ring staff

 

[Karen S]

Good Morning All,

Belinda, Lea, Lewella, and any other board member that lurks here. I have a question..

When did the finance committee meeting become an open meeting? In the past we have not been able to attend a closed meeting since they do talk about the Registry's employee salaries. I know they look over those committee's bugets and the overall financial picture of the association. If it is open then yes I would urge anyone that wanted to attend to go sit in on their meeting.

Karen

 

[dmk]

Good Morning All,
Belinda, Lea, Lewella, and any other board member that lurks here. I have a question..

When did the finance committee meeting become an open meeting? In the past we have not been able to attend a closed meeting since they do talk about the Registry's employee salaries. I know they look over those committee's bugets and the overall financial picture of the association. If it is open then yes I would urge anyone that wanted to attend to go sit in on their meeting.

Karen

Covention registration starts on Wednesday and the finance committee meeting is held on Tuesday, so the meeting is obviously not set up for the general membership would you say? I won't be in on Tuesday anyway.

 

[Lmequine]

I called and talked to Joe at the ASPC/AMHR office this morning. ASPC/AMHR members are allowed to sit in and listen to the financial committee. It is like sitting in on a board member meeting, members can listen and take notes but it is not a question/answer session. Basically Joe said that he will go over the history of the finances of the association, up to present. He will go over budgets for the committees, and then will conclude with what he sees that needs to be done as far as any changes. He said that, just like a board member meeting, there may be a time when regular members are asked to leave the room while people/money issues are being discussed. He has been our accounting person for 14 yrs now. I asked how many regular members normally attend the meeting and he said 3 or 4.

Also, the reason the finance committee meeting is held at the beginning of the Convention is so that the numbers/budgets are available to the other committees and BOD before their meetings are held during the rest of the week.

Joe said that if anyone has an specific questions that they are more than welcome to CALL him! He will be happy to try and answer any questions.

 

[~Lisa~]

Thanks Leah I am curious.. if it is not a question and answer and directors are treated like general members if they are not on the committee they have no say. So my question if they are making a budget for the 2010 year.. and our directors who are told to contact can not speak out or vote then how would the Congress budget change or our thoughts be heard?

Or is that the problem there is no budget for Congress or Nationals? I guess I am still very confused

 

[Lmequine]

Thanks Leah I am curious.. if it is not a question and answer and directors are treated like general members if they are not on the committee they have no say. So my question if they are making a budget for the 2010 year.. and our directors who are told to contact can not speak out or vote then how would the Congress budget change or our thoughts be heard?
Or is that the problem there is no budget for Congress or Nationals? I guess I am still very confused

Those are very good questions and I sure do not know the answers to them! Just checked the Journal and Dennis O'keefe is listed as the Committee Chair for finance. Seems like those would be good questions for him. I know that he is NOT good at answering emails but he is good about answering his phone so maybe call and ask him....I really do not know if they have a budget for Congress and Nationals decided at the Convention.

 

[HGFarm]

I have not looked at the file, but just to play devil's advocate here I'm going to put in my 2 cents worth, which is worth just that .... the expenses on our big spring show here really vary. We are required to pay the judges expenses, and the airline tickets really vary depending on where they are coming from and how early the ticket is purchased. We shop around for decent hotels to see who will give us the best deal on a block of rooms.

Also, I have seen that photographers usually have an associate or two with them, and many of them do not share rooms.......

Through trial and error over the years, we have also found that your crews are very important, as is your office staff, and if you dont have someone knowledgable in both places, that is experienced and can handle it... it can quickly become a mess.

One year, we had a gate person that called the class, and instead of making a two minute gate call, or whatever, would wait until ALL the horses checked in!!!! This delayed every class ALL DAY until by afternoon it was so far behind, it was ridiculous. The judges were not happy either. They thought they were just 'being nice' I guess, but I guarantee if someone gets called, and they are not there in two minutes and they miss their class, they wont do it again.

Basicly we have found that we end up paying for quality, because we want people to come back, and want them (and us) to have a pleasant experience.

There is a lot of expense into putting on a large show....... perhaps the entry fees should be increased or something then if they are not making ends meet? Or there could be other expenses reduced somehow to save a bit here and there. Not much you can do about travel expenses and hotel costs though. They dont dicker on those!

How many knowledgable people will VOLUNTEER for some of these positions? That would save some money. Not too many, I can bet. It is hard work and long hours, without usually even a thank you from anyone.