Feeding our minis Omolene 300

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Happy Valley

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Hi Y'all,

I have been feeding our mini "near" yearlings Omolene 300 at about 3.5 lbs feed each twice daily. They weigh from 130 to 144 pound each according to the heart girth and body length formula. I thought that was great until someone scoffed at me and told me that that was too much protein for them. It is only about 15%, right?

What is feeling in the community about protein requirements? We plan to show in the spring.

Another critic told me that I should be feeding about 35% protein. HUH?

They are doing just fine on the Omolene.

Someone else recommended halfing their Omolene with calf manna.

What do you guys feed and is Omolene 300 appropriate for this age? I thought it was great until about two or so!

Stacye

(Robin C, if this sounds familiar, we have had a similar conversation before!)
 
Yes that is what I use and even feed 300 to my steer and He did great on it! 35% that is absurd~!
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Yes anything between 14% and 16% is just fine and dandy.IMO
 
We give it to our broodmares that have nursing foals by their side and to the foals until they are yearlings. Then we give Omelene 200 which is a 14% protein diet. The 300 is 16%. There has been controversy in the past that you shouldn't give too much protein in their diet but IMO they need it.

35% is crazy and I would like to know what feed that has that.

Also the foals are getting alfalfa cubes and that has quite a bit of protein. They look wonderful!
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I feed Omolene 300 to my weanlings, too. And they look great.

After I weaned them, I added calf manna to the Omolene for about 2 - 3 month.

They are slick and shiny and none of them had a potbelly. In the evening, they get a handfull soaked alfalfa cubes too.
 
35%!!! There is no such THING!!!
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Holy smokaroonies!

I have fed Omolene 300 (16) to my mares, about a month prior to foaling, and keep them on it until the foals are weaned. After that, the foals get it until they are a year old, and then they slowly change to the 200, (14%) and by the time they are two, they are getting Sweetina, which is 12%. I have done this for over 25 years, and have always grown nice healthy foals on it.

I did, however, change to barley,oats, and corn for a couple of years because I jumped on the "too much sugar, and protein" bandwagon. After having pot-bellied, poor thriving weanlings one year, I changed back to what I should have stuck with. I had the foals blood tested, and their protein levels were down. I know, there are suppliments I could have fed...but why...when the prepared feed already has what works for us.
 
I feed Omolene 300 to my lactating mares and my foals until they are yearlings. Sorry guys but I feed Purina Natures Essentials Born to Win diet balancer to my other horses and it is 30+ protein...That is what people are feeding when they say it has 30+ protein..it is a diet balancer and cannot be compared with the protein content of the sweetfeeds.
 
I feed 300 to all my babies as we wean them.. Its a great feed and ur horses should do real well on it.
 
I feed Purina Natures Essentials Born to Win diet balancer to my other horses and it is 30+ protein...That is what people are feeding when they say it has 30+ protein..it is a diet balancer and cannot be compared with the protein content of the sweetfeeds
But is is a "real", feed, or a supplement? What do they get besides this? Why do you feel they need something with so high a protein level?
 
Sue_C. said:
But is is a "real", feed, or a supplement? What do they get besides this? Why do you feel they need something with so high a protein level?

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It is a "real" feed, fed with hay.

I feed Progressive Nutrition grass balancer (same idea, different brand). It's a vitamin/mineral supplement with quality protein (no grains). It is generally fed in smaller amounts than grain based feeds because it's "concentrated".

Here are a couple quotes from the PN website:

"Progressive Nutrition’s line of feeds is formulated to fill the gap between the nutrients supplied by your forage and what your horse needs. At Progressive Nutrition, we take the guesswork out of feeding your horse. "

" A Progressive Nutrition (PN) “Unit†is made up of protein (amino acids), fats (fatty acids), major minerals, trace minerals and vitamins necessary to complement the analysis of your forages (grass or legume. Our Diet Balancers are concentrated sources of these nutrients, which means one PN “Unit†is equal to one pound of the appropriate Diet Balancer. How many PN “Units†to feed per day will depend on your horses: size, current growth rate, reproductive status and/or performance level. "

If you wish to learn more about diet balancers, here's the PN website:

http://www.prognutrition.com/

Other companies make diet balancers, Progressive happens to be the one available to me and was also recommended to me by a nutritionist friend. I am very pleased with it.
 
What is feeling in the community about protein requirements? We plan to show in the spring.
Another critic told me that I should be feeding about 35% protein. HUH?

Someone else recommended halfing their Omolene with calf manna.

What do you guys feed and is Omolene 300 appropriate for this age? I thought it was great until about two or so!
Time to de-bunk some myths about protein! For clarity's sake, I'll put some common feed terminology in BOLD and CAPS

1) PROTEIN PERCENTAGE IN FEEDS: When a bag says it is 14% or 35% protein, that means EVERY POUND of that feed contains 14% or 35% protein. What it DOES NOT mean is that you are feeding your horse a 14% or 35% protein diet overall. In order for that to be true, the product would have to be the ONLY thing you fed the horse each day. EXAMPLE: If you feed a 14% complete feed and gave nothing else, no hay, no grass, no cubes, etc, then yes, you could say that the horse was on a 14% protein diet. But how many of us feed this way??? Not many horses are truly on a complete feed without any other source of food -- they get hay, or grazing, or something else besides that one commercial "complete" feed. So the protein from those sources (the hay, the grass, etc.) has to be factored into the equation (see below).

Most commercial mixed feeds and straight grains average in the 10-16% protein range. Feeds in the 35% range are either ration balancers or some sort of protein supplement (like Calf Manna). If there is any confusion, just read the manufacturer's instructions for feeding rates. Most average feeds (those in the 10-16% protein range) will recommend feeding at rates (by weight) MUCH higher than feeds in the 30-35% range. Whereas you might be required to feed a pound of a commercial mix, you might only need 4 ounces of a 30% ration balancer to meet the GUARANTEED ANALYSIS.

2) PROTEIN PERCENTAGE vs. GRAMS OF PROTEIN: Protein is the most expensive "ingredient" in feeds, so the manufacturers (and subsequently the horse owner) tend to put a lot of emphasis on it. And because manufacturers tend to express the amount of protein in a feed by percentage, that's how many horse owners speak about feeds. What is MORE important than percentage of protein, however, is the grams of protein that a horse receives each day. Much like Vitamin C, there is a daily recommended amount of protein that a horse should receive. The 1989 NRC Table (the gold standard against which all feeds are measured) indicates that a 200 lb mature idle miniature should receive a minimum of 150 grams of crude protein each day. The NRC table NEVER mentions protein percentage. Why? Because it's irrelevant. What is important is the AMOUNT of protein taken in by the horse each day, measured by weight. So yes, protein percentage of the feed is important, but only as it relates to grams of protein delivered.

3) PROTEIN IS CUMMULATIVE ACROSS THE ENTIRE DIET: Remember that there is protein in almost everything we feed our horses -- from his commercial concentrate or grains all the way to the grass he grazes on or the hay he munches on while in a stall. In order to determine the PERCENTAGE of protein in the diet, you can do the following equation:

Step 1: Find the protein amount for each item of feed. To do this equation you have to know the protein percentage of each food item, including the hay or grass. You may need to use average figures for the hay or grass if you have not had them analyzed. Average hay figures are available all over the internet. The following numbers are just for example's sake.

2 lbs of grass hay @ 11% protein = 22

(figured by multiplying 2 x 11)

1 lb of 14% sweet feed = 14

(figured by multiplying 1 x 14)

Step 2: Add the protein "factor" and the total pounds of feed provided

protein factor = 36 (figured by adding 22 + 14)

total feed = 3 lbs (figured by adding 2 + 1)

Step 3: Divided the total protein factor (36) by the total pounds of food provided (3):

36 divided by 3 = 12% protein overall for the whole diet

So now we've determined that we are feeding overall a 12% protein diet and our horse is getting fed 3 lbs of total feed each day. For our 200 lb mature idle pasture pet, this is 1.5% of his total body weight. Doesn't sound like much food, but it's really all he needs!

Now that we know the percentage of protein in the diet, let's figure out the important part -- the amount in grams of protein this diet is providing to him each day.

Step 1: Convert total pounds fed each day to grams (uggh - metric!!! HINT: If you don't like math, use a conversion table. A good one is www.onlineconversion.com). Remember - we fed him 3 pounds of food each day:

3 pounds of food x 453.6 g/lb = 1361 grams of food each day

Step 2: Convert total percentage to actual value. This uses the overall percentage of the diet that we figured out above: 12%

(HINT: divide by 100, or simply move the decimal point 2 places to the left)

12% divided by 100 = 0.12



Step 3: Multiply total grams from Step 1 (1351 grams) by the result of Step 2 (.12)

1361 g X 0.12 = 163 grams of protein in the entire ration

Now, do you remember how many grams of protein are required by our 200 lb mature maintenance pasture pet? It was 150 grams of protein per day. So by feeding our horse 2 lbs of a low protein hay, and 1 lb of a 14% sweet feed, he is receiving 163 grams of protein per day, and his diet is 12% protein overall.

Let's do that again, now substituting a 30% protein ration balancer at 4 oz per day (the manufacturer's recommendation for our 200 lb mini) and a grass hay that averages 12% protein fed at 1% of body weight (the minimum necessary for proper gut health), so 2 lbs of grass hay each day.

Step 1:

2 lbs of hay x 12% protein = 24

4 oz (0.25 lb) of ration balancer X 30% = 7.5

Step 2:

24 + 7.5 = 31.5

2 lbs + 4 oz = 2.25 lbs

Step 3:

31.5 divided by 2.25 = 14% protein in the entire ration

Determine the number of grams provided by this diet:

Step 1:

2.25 lbs X 453.6 g/lb = 1020 grams

Step 2:

14 divided by 100 = .14

Step 3:

1020 grams X .14 = 142 grams of protein delivered per day

How many grams of protein is considered minimum amount required? -- 150 -- so we're close, but not quite there on the minimum recommended amount. Not even that 30% PROTEIN balancer fed at manufacturer's recommendations could bump up the protein delivered by the hay to minimum levels. You would either have to a) feed more ration balancer (most manufacturers have a range of feeding recommendations -- remember that 4 oz was the MINIMUM recommended by the feeding instructions) or b) provide better quality hay. Only then would our horse receive his daily requirements for TOTAL GRAMS of protein which is MUCH more important than the percentages of the different PARTS of the diet.

Math lesson over (thank goodness
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4) YOUNG HORSES and SENIOR HORSES have a higher requirement for protein than adult horses in their prime. Young horses don't need more protein as much as they need BETTER QUALITY protein. That's because protein is the building block of muscles and tissue. Young horses grow -- therefore they need good quality protein to fuel that growth. Important things to look for in a young horse's feed is HIGH QUALITY proteins -- lysine, methionine and threonine. If your food mentions these amino acids (the building blocks of protein), then this is likely a premium, high quality food (and you are probably paying a higher price for it, too). Senior horses don't utilize protein as well as young or mature horses, so they need MORE PROTEIN than their younger counterparts. Therefore most senior feeds will be in the 14% range.

Therefore Omolene 300 is perfectly fine for a young growing horse.

5) RATION BALANCERS: These HIGHLY CONCENTRATED products can be used either as a feed OR a supplement. They pack quite a nutritional wallop in a very small amount of product and therefore manufacturer recommendations are generally MUCH less (by weight) than conventional "feeds". They are higher in protein ( in the 30-35% range) because they are designed to be fed along with lower protein whole grains such as oats and barley (and fill in the vitamins and minerals not contained in whole grains). Because most minis tend to be easy keepers, ration balancers can be fed alone as the entire feed without adding any grains. Keeps the overall calorie count down. A hard-working, hard keeper, however, may require grain to be added to maintain weight and/or energy levels. As such, the ration balancer might then become a supplement -- providing protein, vitamins and minerals in adequate amounts to complement the whole grain (oats, barley). A Ration Balancer is usually not fed with a commercial feed mix that already has its own vitamins and minerals added, although under certain circumstances it CAN be added to a commercial product, especially if you are not feeding that commercial feed to the minimum as recommended by the manufacturer. Then the ration balancer becomes a supplement. This is generally done within a manufacturer's product line. In other words, Triple Crown 30 supplement can be added to Triple Crown Growth because they have been designed to work together.

6) CALF MANNA is a wonderful supplement that has been around for years. Most people fall into 2 camps: LOVE it, HATE it. It is a high protein, soy-based supplement, similar to a ration balancer, but has much more starch in it than a ration balancer. Great product for poor-doers, or broodmares and foals when fed in moderation, keeping in mind other supplements that the horse may be receiving.

I know most of you won't read this to the bottom, but for those of you who have -- CONGRATULATIONS!!! You made it through Protein 101! Now go practice those equations!

Robin C
 
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Whew! Thanks Robin, very interesting (and I made it all the way through
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Now, where does beet pulp fit into this equation?

My problem currently is that I'm having to feed a mixed group of horses together. I have 3 middle aged geldings, 4 weanlings, a couple of yearlings and about 15 mares (4 in foal) that are in one pasture. They have a round bale accessible 24/7, and I'm feeding a mix of primarily oats and beet pulp - with a little Omolene 200 because it makes me feel better lol. What is the best way to satisfy all requirements until I can get them separated again? I'm afraid something like a feed balancer would get lost in the shuffle, and the dominant horses would get it all.

Jan
 
wildoak said:
Whew!  Thanks Robin, very interesting (and I made it all the way through 
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)Now, where does beet pulp fit into this equation?

My problem currently is that I'm having to feed a mixed group of horses together.  I have 3 middle aged geldings, 4 weanlings, a couple of yearlings and about 15 mares (4 in foal) that are in one pasture.  They have a round bale accessible 24/7, and I'm feeding a mix of primarily oats and beet pulp - with a little Omolene 200 because it makes me feel better lol.  What is the best way to satisfy all requirements until I can get them separated again?  I'm afraid something like a feed balancer would get lost in the shuffle, and the dominant horses would get it all.

Jan

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You're probably correct, Jan -- a ration balancer probably would lose its value when fed in a group setting. From your description, it sounds like most of your horses, with the exception of the 3 middle-aged geldings, are fairly close in classification -- that is, having generally the same requirements for feeding. If your horses look good and are holding their weight, then I wouldn't worry too much. If anything, your geldings are probably getting more nutrition than they need at a minimum, which is much better than getting LESS nutrition than they need! Now, if they are roly-poly's, but all the other horses are at good weight or less than optimum weight, then I'd say you have a disparity going on and the need to separate them becomes more urgent.

It's difficult to say offhand (without doing a lot of math) EXACTLY what your horses are receiving from this diet because (a) we don't know the particulars about the hay, (b) we can only come up with an average estimate for how much they are eating each day from the round bale and © while protein is very important in the diet -- especially for your bunch of youngsters and broodmares -- it is too simplistic to think of developing rations in terms of protein alone. There are so many other factors to consider, not the least of which is calcium:phosphorus ratio in your group of youngsters.

The beet pulp mixed with the oats is a good start. A 50:50 mixture (by dry weight) is actually pretty balanced in terms of vitamins and minerals and represents, on average, about 10-11% protein. The Omolene 200 is already balanced, but as you said is probably more icing on the cake for both you and your horses
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. The hay bale is the real variable here as it is impossible to determine by sight how nutritious any hay is. That takes some form of analysis. In the absence of those specific numbers, however, we must resort to averages for hay type. Many grass hays are fairly balanced for calcium:phosphorus and if anything are a little heavier on the phosphorus end of things. Protein levels can vary from 8% to the teens and sugar content can be low or off the scale! But, if we utilize an average of 12% protein for the grass hay, just off the top of my head it looks like your herd is getting about 11% protein overall (depending on how much of the sweet feed is being provided), give or take a little. There is certainly opinion in the literature reflecting a 12% protein diet being adequate for young growing horses, while other research prefers higher levels. If your horses are doing well and looking healthy, I wouldn't worry about changing anything. Try some of the equations noted above using more relevant numbers for your hay and see what you come up with -- keeping in mind that protein is only ONE important element in the diet.

Robin C
 
Thank you Robin, that was an excellent explanation. The diet balancers really do work well. My horses love it and I feed 27 in individual feed bowls. Along with the Purina Natures Essentials Born to Win you feed 2% of their desired body weight in a mixed grass hay. Also based on the horses desired weight the Natures Essentials weighs out to be 1/2 to 1 Cup per day. For Hard keepers I would add one of the Omolene products or other high calorie foods. If I had a hard keeper
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We really are so lucky to have free access to Robin's brain
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Thankyou Robin.

I think the motto here, as with all things horsey, is

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it"
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I feed the Progressive diet balancer to horses in a group setting. Usually in dry lots of 4-5. They eat in long feed bunks. I figure some get more and some get less at each feeding, but I figure it balances out overall. YOu might consider Jan, that per horse each gets such a small amount, even the lowest guy can get his portion finished in a very short amount of time.

I also want to add that Progressive Nutrition makes a supplement designed to be fed free choice. YOu might want to look into this. Progressive Nutrition Equine Products
 
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Thanks from me, also Robin!!

I love reading your feeding explanations, it helps to re-emphasize the feeding program that you helped me set up a couple of years ago.

My horses all look sleek and shiny and I can tell they feel good!!

I agree with rabbitsfizz, "We really are so lucky to have free access to Robin's brain!"

One more (of the many) reason why this LB Forum is so awesome, we can help each other and the expertise on here is priceless!
 
Robin C., you are SUCH a gem!! Might I have your permission to print off your posting on this thread, so I can submit it(with your byline, of course!)to our club's newsletter?

What is your take on Purina's "Mare and Maintenance"? I am using it, along with Purina's "Equine Senior" and "Strategy". I feed 1/4 cup of BOSS AM and PM, along with less-than-manuf.-recommendation of the two aforementioned feeds, to several of mine; am in the process of using up some whole oats in order to switch the rest all over to either"Strategy", with the above, or, to my 'airfern', just the M & M and BOSS. I feed every horse some percentage mix of excellent alfalfa and a good mixed(timothy, brome, orchardgrass-seems that many of these bales are heavy on the brome)grass hay(I buy the alfalfa and the grass separately; it's not a grown-mixed hay)--from 1/4 -1/3 alfalfa to 2/3- 3/4 grass(no grazing to speak of here, especially now.) Everyone looks good-thick, luxuriant and shiny(even when dusty!)winter coats, and good weights-well-padded, but not obese, for the winter. I went with the "Mare & Maintenance" because none of my horses are below age 4,and aren't working hard(the ONE who is, gets more of the concentrates, and a slightly higher alfalfa percentage). It is my understanding(I did read the hang tag, but it's not in my hand just now!)that it is a lower protein % than the "Born to Win". I have bought some beet pulp pellets, for use when it gets really cold-will feed only once daily, soaked in hot water, and felt I should lessen the hay by a bit when feeding it(I do feed a bit more grass hay in really cold weather,but want to keep up with enough fiber without adding weight to the horses.)

Thanks for your help, to all of us--you really are a wonderful asset to this Forum!

We should be giving you some sort of award, for valuable information "above and beyond the call of duty'....!!!
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Thanks Robin
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You have reassured me that my horses will survive this transition while we settle in and get cross fences built! The geldings are plump, but no fatter than they were before we moved. Actually, all have access to more land now, some fairly decent grazing and hills to climb so I think they are in better shape than before. Not show shape by any means, but they are more active due to the terrain. I forgot to mention - I'm also putting out some Moorman's Grostrong loose mineral 2-3 times a week.

Jan
 
Robin C., you are SUCH a gem!! Might I have your permission to print off your posting on this thread, so I can submit it(with your byline, of course!)to our club's newsletter?
ME TOO PLEASE???????
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Might I have your permission to print off your posting on this thread, so I can submit it(with your byline, of course!)to our club's newsletter?
I'm glad to share a few facts and figures here on the Forum and have been asked several times about newsletter items. I am somewhat hesitant to do that as I have absolutely no credentials in equine nutrition (see my disclaimer). It is simply an odd hobby (though many of us with horses have an intense interest in nutrition -- for our horses and oftentimes moreso than our own
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). That, plus the fact that I tend to write these rather casually, with subsequent typo's, etc., I'd prefer to be contacted directly about a subject/article rather than just copying off of the Forum. That way I'd have time to review the writings once again, make it appropriately "print-worthy" with proper punctuation, etc. The articles MUST also include my disclaimer. Basically I'm not telling anyone how to feed their horse (the job of a real nutritionist), but rather I'm just passing along some facts and figures that are available to all of us if you know where to look and how to interpret them. If I've made all this mumbo-jumbo more understandable, then I've accomplished my mission
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What is your take on Purina's "Mare and Maintenance"? I am using it, along with Purina's "Equine Senior" and "Strategy". I feed 1/4 cup of BOSS AM and PM, along with less-than-manuf.-recommendation of the two aforementioned feeds, to several of mine; am in the process of using up some whole oats in order to switch the rest all over to either"Strategy", with the above, or, to my 'airfern', just the M & M and BOSS.
Purina's M&M is simply their legume-balanced version of their ration balancer, Born To Win (balanced for grass or mixed hay), so yes, the protein percentage will be lower. Since you are not feeding either the Sr or the Strategy to manufacturer's recommendations (and I don't blame you, because that would be WAY too many calories), then you are using the M&M as a supplement. As long as you aren't overfeeding the M&M, this should be just fine, especially since they are all Purina products and there is a large safety margin for MOST vitamins/minerals (the exceptions being Vitamin A and selenium - but Purina is generally on the low side of recommended across their product line creating an even larger margin for error). I'm unclear as to why you are mixing the Sr and the Strategy rather than feeding one or the other, but it sounds as if you horses are happy and healthy and you are covering your bases well by using the M&M as a supplement.

to my 'airfern', just the M & M and BOSS.
Excellent idea for air ferns. This is exactly what I do, plus a little beet pulp or chopped hay to give the meal some volume. Somehow they don't think 2 oz (1/4 cup) of ration balancer = a meal!!!!

I feed the Progressive diet balancer to horses in a group setting. Usually in dry lots of 4-5. They eat in long feed bunks. I figure some get more and some get less at each feeding, but I figure it balances out overall.
Becky, your philosophy on this may well be true, especially if you put out an extra serving or so over the number of horses feeding at that bunker. From an accountability standpoint, however, it certainly is a lot easier to figure out how much nutrition our horses are receiving on a daily basis when they are fed individually. I can certainly understand, however, that this is not always practical or possible.

Robin C
 
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