Color Genetics

[SandyWI]

I have been reading the threads about appaloosas and pinto genes, and while I would like to gracefully stay out of that controversy, LOL, I would like to point out that some of the ways to decide what color (or classification, if you will), your horse is, such as appearance, sire, dam, and grandparents' markings, can be tricky.

Sometimes going by appearance and visible markings can be VERY tricky! I would like to show you a few pictures of one of my fillies. If you look at her closely, she is solid black. (I'm sorry for the picture with the ribbons, but I don't have any other pics of her where she's not fat and hairy, LOL).

The only white you can see on her is a very tiny sliver of white on her right rear coronet, and the white snip on her nose. Yet I had her tested, and she is LWO positive!!! Obviously, she's an extremely minimal LWO, but she definitely is LWO positive, and her sire was as well.

So, sometimes appearances can be deceiving! I'm hoping that when I breed her to my loud black and white homozygous tobiano, I will get a nice frame overo.

 

[Songcatcher]

You are absolutely correct. Appearances can often be deceiving and your's is an excellent example. LWO is one of the most notorious for being "masked" by other patterns. It is also a widely held belief that LWO requires some other pattern to "draw it out".

If I were hoping for a loud Frame foal, I would breed to a Sabino or Splash rather than homozygous Tobiano. Not that the Tobiano cross won't give you a wild marked foal, probably just not the Frame pattern you are looking for.

 

[Devon]

: Thats actually really interesting and neat.

 

[SandyWI]

If I were hoping for a loud Frame foal, I would breed to a Sabino or Splash rather than homozygous Tobiano. Not that the Tobiano cross won't give you a wild marked foal, probably just not the Frame pattern you are looking for.

My tobiano is also sabino! So my fingers will be crossed!

I edited this to add a few pictures of him.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

And I would lay money your mare also has Splash- the nose marking and white socks are atypical of minimal Frame!!

I am assuming since you are obviously conscientious you have tested the stallion for LWP??

 

[SandyWI]

I have indeed sent his hairs off to be tested. I've only had him a year, and his previous owner did not test him for LWO because there were no overos in his background. She only tested him for tobiano. But yes, I decided this year to get him LWO tested.

I bred him last year to two of my other mares, but they were lab tested negative for LWO, so I knew it would be a safe cross on the off-chance he was positive. But now, with an LWO positive mare, he definitely needs to be tested for safety's sake.

 

[Dona]

Sandy....you will never get a pure FRAME pattern when crossing a homozygous Tobiano with Frame. That is because your homozygous Tobiano will pass the Tobiano gene every time. You will get either a Tovero (Tobiano & Frame) or a simple Tobiano (if the frame gene doesn't get passed) But you CAN get some really wildly marked Toveros with that cross!

:

 

[SandyWI]

Thanks for that info, Dona. As you know, colors and crosses are new to me as in my long life with big horses I never bred them so I never really cared for or got into color genetics.

So, if I bred Lucy to a heterozygous tobiano/sabino, I'd have a better chance of getting a frame overo than breeding her to a homozygous tobiano?

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Frame is just LWO nothing more.

If the horse has LWO it is Frame, whatever it looks like.

I do not know of any Mini that is Frame alone- I am sure there must be one, somewhere, but I do not know of one- Oh, see your mare might be, but I am assuming you are not trying to get another pattern as minimal as that??

The more patterns present (usually!!) the louder the pattern of the horse.

So, really "pure" Frame is not what you are attempting to achieve, am I right??

You are attempting to achieve a loud, Frame looking, pattern??