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Breeding Yearling Stallions

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Cathyjo

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I wanted to correct what was posted earlier from the office. The new rule this year is that a stallion cannot be used for breeding prior to January 1 of its second year. Therefore the yearling mentioned cannot have any foals registered even after he becomes permanent. This is something that doesn't occur often here as yearlings are not usually used for breeding. Zona was aware of the rule change but the new girl in registration was not - she is now
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CountryHaven

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This is not necessarily a problem for me, but I really don't see the logic in this at all. I can understand mare's under 3 years old not being allowed to have foals (at least registerably), but stallions? Why make that ruling? If they can, and their owner wants to try it, what exactly is the harm there?
 

CountryHaven

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chevycouple said:
Isn't it to assure the hight issue?
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Well, I would say no to that reasoning, otherwise it would be possible to register once the stallion was brought permanent.
 

Cathyjo

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In regard to "why" and "logic" - they did not say why - but I guess this was- established the same time that mares having to be three was set - it just wasn't a front burner issue as stallions younger than two were not presented as sires but on a rare occassion. And it is January 1 - not the actual second birthday although the foal will still need to wait until the stallion is brought permanent to be registered. .
 
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kaykay

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this came up a few weeks ago but i think some people missed it.

you can no longer register foals to a stallion unless he has been brought PERMANENT at age 3. This i believe does have to do with the whole height issue. Since amhr requires the stallion to be brought perm at age 3 that is his official height.

I didnt know about this either until registering foals this year.

So you could breed a 2 yr old stallion and by the time the foal arrives the stallion is 3. does that make sense?
 

Sunraye Miniatures

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Ok are you saying that the foals can't be registered out of stallions who doesn't TURN 2 by Jan. 1st? Or are you saying stallions can't even be used for breeding BEFORE they turn 2 by Jan. 1st?

I can understand the prospect that you can't register foals who there sires don't turn 2 when they are born because thats stating that foals (weanlings) are being used for breeding and there foals are born the following year and there sires are only just yearlings. No body should follow that pratice.

But not being able to breed stallions of there yearling year, I don't know doesn't seem right to me. I don't do it, but that doesn't make any since.

I think what they are saying is a foal can't breed, like a mare can't be bred as a yearling? Or am I wrong?

If they are taking this rule into effect this year it shouldn't be because there is no age limit at all for stallions in the 2005 rulebook!
 
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kaykay

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you cannot register foals from a stallion unless the stallion is 2 years old as of jan 1 THE YEAR YOU WANT TO BREED HIM
See becaues by the time the foal arrives the stallion will be 3 and perm registered

here is how its worded in the rule book (which i think needs to be rewritten to make it easier to understand)

4. AMHR horses for which an application for registration has been submitted to the AMHR National Office, will be registered ONLY if the sire and dam have been updated from temporary to permanent status.
 

wpsellwood

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I think I got it, so if your foal is born say in feb, and your stallion doesnt get permanent registered say until june. You have to wait until June to register that foal is that corret???
 

Sunraye Miniatures

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I understand that part, but I thought that you can breed yearling stallions? The way that rule states is you cannot?? Am I right?

That new rule really doesn't clarify it at all IMO. But of course I'm illiterate I guess
.
 
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kaykay

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karla i agree they need to rewrite the rule so its clear like the rule on the mares age. Especially since this is a brand new rule

But because not many people breed yearling stallions they probably didnt think it was a big deal.

But i would assume that a stallion bred earlier then age 2 would not have registrable foals to be on the safe side. My reasoning would be you could not hold registration applications for that long. I would have to assume that a foal has to be registered the year its born.
 

Minimor

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This is a step in reverse. Originally the rulebook said (so I'm told) stated that "no foal may be registered out of/by a horse that has not reached it's 3rd birthday (as of Jan. 1st)" or words to that effect anyway...

When Ice Man, in the fall of his yearling year, bred a mare through the fence, a couple people told me we'd be unable to register the foal because Ice Man was going to be only 2 years old when the foal was born. I read the rule book & it said "out of a mare that has not reached its 3rd birthday...." & when I pointed this out to these people, they said oh, I guess AMHR changed the rule, it used to be mare or stallion. So, if they are right, the rule has already been changed once---what is the thinking in changing it back to the old way?

I doubt there are many people deliberately breeding yearling stallions--it's usually an accident...so obviously now these accidents won't be registrable. Yearling colts seem to be the absolute worst for ending up where they aren't supposed to be
Fortunately our "accident" did get her papers without any problem last year!

I just don't see the point in changing the rules regarding age of the sire (woo hoo, I'd like to hear the outcry if AMHA were to adopt the same rule, & say that no foals were registrable until the parents were both permanent registered--no breeding until the horses are 4 year olds??) And, if the rule is changed, it needs to be reworded so that it is 100% clear. It's much too ambiguous now.

I don't believe it's really the height thing at all that's behind this rule change--there's just too many flaws in that line of reason. But, I sure don't see what the reason behind this is. Makes no sense to me.
 

Minimor

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kaykay said:
  My reasoning would be you could not hold registration applications for that long.  I would have to assume that a foal has to be registered the year its born.
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The only thing is, foals can be registered in their yearling, or two year old, or three year old (or later) years....there is a fee schedule for the different ages. I have a colt this year that I'm thinking I will wait and registered as a yearling, just because this fall I have NO idea what color to register him as. If I wait until he starts to shed as a yearling, I'll be able to be accurate.
 

minicount

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Here is a hoot, the rule was voted in ....because the AMHR thought it would curb some unscrupulous registration tactics. Huh?!?

Honest it's true.
 
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Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis

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I called the office today and was told that NO HORSE that was sired by a stallion before his 2nd birthday (jan of that year) would be eligible to be registered period. I am going to calll back on monday would seem to me they would have should have printed that somewhere besides in a rule book which came out just a couple of months ago if it is to take effect for 2005
 
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Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis

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wasnt how I read it either to be honest but that is what I was told when i questioned it and pushed a bit i was told to call monday and talk to Zona so you can bet i will just to be clear on the rule
 

Getitia

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I see some significant issues with this new rule.

Lets use this example - you breed a 2 year old stallion who lets say has a DOB of October - to a 5 year old mare.

And you desire to show the resulting weanling - perhaps the foal is even nominated for the National Futurity.

The rule states the foal is to be registered prior to showing -

The new rule states the foal "cannot" be registered until the sire and dam are brought permanent

The rule states a horse "cannot" be brought permanent until it has reached its third birthday (which in this example is October).

Thus the resulting foal cannot be registered until after October.

The other challenge I see will be with horses that are sold on an application- through auctions or privately. If the owners of the sire and dam do not bring their horses permanent - then you will not be able to register the offspring.

I don't believe whomever recommended this rule, cross referenced all of the existing rules nor walked through the potential ramifications to the membership. - which in some situations could be significant.
 

JMS Miniatures

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This new rule really gets on my nerves! What really ticks me off is that AMHR really gave no warning and I think it isn't a good rule at all.

Where in it does it say you can't breed yearlings? No where, just says the horse must be brought pernament. Says it clearly with the dam can't register the foal until it reaches it's 3rd birthday as of Jan. 1st. Why couldnt they do that with the stallion?

And I believe its too late now to change this rule. Didn't where you can change the rules expired on July 1st but the rulebooks came out like in mid to late June? How can you read and understand word to word when it came out that late and change any rule?

Another rule I like too see change is you must have the foal registered by July 1st to beable to show at any show. However at Nationals you can still register the foal right there and won't be a problem
. I believe in showing proof that you sent it in, but they must be registered by July 1st to show is kind of redicoulous to me.

Did they mention these rules at all at National Convention last year? I wasn't able to go so I don't know, just curious.

Ok I made my peace lol.
 

Tabitha

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What about this--you breed your mare(s) to your 2 year old stallion...perfectly "legal", he'll be 3 and permanent reg'd by the time the foals are born.

But wait--stallion dies 3 months before his 3rd birthday. You can't bring him permanent, and you have foals that can't be registered.

STUPID rule.
 
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kaykay

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i honestly dont think AMHR thought about all the ramifications of this rule before they put it in place. Its very vague and look how many different ways all of us took it?? Also i think a notice probably should have been sent to everyone that sent in a stallion report last year so that breeders would be aware of the change. I had no idea until they turned down registration on a foal because the stallion wasnt permenant yet. In my situation it turned out fine as i just sent in his perm papers and everything was fine. (he had just turned 3 in may)
 

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