Ulcer Question--after watching the acupuncture video

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After watching the video with the acupuncture points for possible ulcer I checked my new mare. When I first got her she was ultra sensitive all over--girth, withers, back. I could hardly brush her. I just thought it was a case of being unhandled, but now I am wondering about ulcers.

She has been on good pasture 1/2 day, given alfalfa every day plus 1/4 cup boss and 1/4 cup groats, and her fecal after worming was clean (she had a load of parasites!). Also had her teeth done. I've had her nearly 8 weeks. I do not see any unusual stretching.

Now the only point she reacts to is the side by the knee. According to the video, this could also indicate a rib problem. I'm expecting the chiropractor next month, but in the meantime I am wondering if I could do something for her in case it is an ulcer.

I am discontinuing her driving training until I figure this out, as naturally the girth of the harness lays over that acupuncture point.

I searched the forum for ULCER and there was so much information I was overwhelmed. I've never dealt with ulcer before.

My question:

Is gastroguard best for suspected ulcer? Stomach Soother? If there is no ulcer, would any of these treatments be wrong?
 
I am not sure what to tell you, except it likely wouldn't actually hurt her to give Gastroguard or Stomach Soother even if she doesn't have an ulcer. From your description, I wonder if she might have had ulcers when she came to you and is now recovering???? Since she is already getting alfalfa (good for ulcers) and no sweet feed (correct?) and if she is eating well, it might just be they are healing. Perhaps the stress of the moving to her new home caused ulcers - not uncommon and why we had our mare we bought last summer treated with Gastroguard before she was shipped and along the way.

One thing you might consider - and cheaper than Gastroguard - is a supplement such as U-Gard which supports digestion and helps prevent ulcers. It is similar to what Dr. DePaola refers to in the video. It contains aloe vera, lots of calcium (think Tums), and other good stuff. Another thing to consider is Sucralfate - not expensive but you would need a prescription from your vet. It heals mucosal tissue, so helps heal ulcers.
 
Thanks for the tips.

Yes, I am thinking she may have had ulcers when she came to me and is now recovering. I wish I had thought about such a thing at first and could, perhaps, have helped her.

I think I will give her some Gastrogard/Stomach Soother.

No, I don't use sweet feed.

I did start her on the vitamin supplement from SmartPak, which I use for Dapper Dan. It is formulated for grass. When confined away from the pasture she gets a flake of grass hay and generally cleans it all up. She eats well, though she is one of those horses that takes bites, then walks or looks around before going back for more bites.

Also she gets soaked timothy pellets every day. I feed my horses seperately, so there is no competition.

She was underweight when I got her. I did not feed her any grain at first, only the alfalfa, grass hay, and timothy pellets. She didn't start getting the boss and groats until a few weeks ago. So, I guess I instinctively did the right thing by not feeding grain at first.
 
I love Stomach Soother, and given that it sounds like she is healing, I would probably start with that and save the big guns (and bigger dollars) for now. Hope you will share what the chiropractor says, always so much to learn in caring for our horses.

Jan
 
Stomach soother is great, but you can make your own, just better. All you have to do is cut up a papaya, remove skin n seeds n puree in blender or food processor. Then, you mix equal parts papaya puree and aloe vera juice. Just add to their feed. It's worked wonders for me and we use it in any stressful situations to prevent ulcers.

Sucrulfate is good, but you can't get it without a prescription and then it needs to be given every 8 hours round the clock in order to work and you have to stop all feed 2 hours before and 2 hours after each dose. Unless you're comitted losing sleep during the night, I would go with omeprazole (IMHO). But a vet really should help you with all that. Good luck!
 
I recently dealt with a major ulcer attack in a post foaling maiden mare and the vet took a two pronged approach - sucralfate AND omeprazole. Of course you have to space the omprazole out from the sucralfate so I was definitely up around the clock treating her. It was successful though and I now have a happy mare who is enjoying being a momma.
 
Went to the vet today to get Gastrogard. I didn't know the local farm store would not have any. No vet in town carries it; they said they don't have any call for it. I will have to order some. Guess the Play Day and Rodeo horses do not get ulcers...

The vet is supposed to call me back about it.

Meanwhile, I got the papaya from Walmart. It is a pill form, 4 for an adult. I tried one myself. I gave Tipsey one to see if she would eat it and she crunched it up. So I will give her some in her feed tonight. For just one horse, the cost is not bad. If my grocery store carries papaya I might try making some, but where do I get aloe vera juice? I have a small plant but I dont' think that will quite get it!

I will treat it as an ulcer and it won't do any harm, even if the chiropractor finds something else.

As an aside, does anyone know if ulcers can trigger laminitis? Or viceversa?
 
As an aside, does anyone know if ulcers can trigger laminitis? Or viceversa?
I don't know if ulcers can trigger laminitis, but... I wouldn't be surprised if laminitis can trigger ulcers; ulcers can be caused by stress, and laminitis is stressful. NOt to mention the medications often used to treat laminitis can cause ulcers (bute being a big one).
 
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I can only tell you what I've been experiencing with my own "problem child".

We brought her home 3 years ago when she was 11. I'm her fourth owner. Her previous owner had her for just under 2 years, I believe if I remember the registration information correctly. She was aloof but seemed to settle in that first spring/summer/fall. When she first came, we had one other filly (11 months old). We added two more weanlings (August and again in October). She was the boss mare from the moment she came here.

That winter it was obvious she wasn't holding her weight well. She got cold when the others didn't seemed bothered at all. We were so green though that some of this wasn't as obvious to us and I see it now with retrospective eyes. When spring came and their hair started shedding, I was shocked with how thin she was. Pointy hips and her back had a definitive ridge. Her hair coat was poor.

Over the past two year, I've tried a bunch of different approaches, with some success. Still her hair coat has never been great (especially when compared to the others). She doesn't maintain weight well. She was getting 2-3x the feed, 16% sweet feed with calorie/fat supplements. She should have been HUGE. I also tried U-guard and felt it had some benefit. We also switched to an alfalfa mixed hay for all the horses early on. Our second year we didn't have much of a pasture so I gave them hay, but she won't fight for her food, despite being boss mare in ALL other aspects. She hates being stalled, so separating them is difficult, but we do it.

We came out of this winter and I was feeling somewhat optimistic. Then last month, she practically quit eating ALL her grain/sweet feed. Even on the pasture, she would eat and then stop, hanging her head. Or laying down (not flat out though). She looked like she was utterly miserable. I had the vet to a baseline panel of blood work last month and the only thing that came back as potentially "off" was a protein level which was really low and when you look at what she was eating before the bloodwork was done, it didn't make sense. But the vet said it *could* be an indicator of ulcers.

After watching her decline for 2 weeks, I contacted the vet again. We decided to start a course of Gastro Guard. We chose this brand because it has increments of 250lbs on the tube which makes it easier to dose her (she weighs roughly 195lbs...I have all my horses weighed every summer).

In addition, I came across information I had previously forgotten. If ulcers are suspected, sweet feed is the WORST thing to feed a horse. In fact, my research has repeated shown that ANY grain should be avoided. Pasture and hay, with supplements if necessary are really the best for a horse with ulcers. And constant access to forage is key to keeping stomach acids down as well.

We're starting our 3rd week of the Gastro Guard. I stopped trying to feed her the sweet feed about 2 weeks ago...she was barely eating it anyway. I'm giving her a daily ration balancer supplement only. I gradually increased her pasture time so that she's on the pasture about 12 hours a day. I'm actively trying to find a small structure that we can afford to purchase for the pasture so she can be down there 24/7. I cannot let my others out like that though, thus the need for another shelter.

My vet's recommendation is to do a 28 day treatment with the Gastro Guard. We will reassess where we think she is at that point. IF we think she's still not markedly better, we're going to test for Cushings and thyroid levels.

The Gastro Guard will cost me $234 by the time we're done this first round. Not cheap, but better than the $39 per *day* my vet is spending on her own horse who needs a whole tube a day for 28 days, then goes to 1/2 a tube for 28 days and then another few weeks of every other day dosing. She's doing this because he was scoped and confirmed with an ulcer. Getting my horse scoped is not something we can easily do...finding someone with a scope that will work on her is an issue.

I'd talk to your vet. If you think ulcers are a possible issue, I'd personally go straight to treating it with Gastro Guard or Ulcer Guard (omeprazole). I've spent 2.5 years trying to puzzle this out and ended up here anyway. I'm cautiously optimistic that the meds and the changes I've made are helping. I'm starting to wish I had done this sooner.
 
If you really suspect ulcers then definitely treat with Omeprozole (Gastroguard or Ulcergard which are the same, just marketed differently). You can get Ulcergard without a prescription and find deals if you Google it. Some other things to try are slow hay feeders, unless you can have them on pasture/eating continuously, and soaked alfalfa cubes, which are high in calcium so good for ulcers. We have used soaked alfalfa cubes as a substitute for "grain" so they get something when others get grain. Of course, our luck with these techniques is pretty bad, as neither horse that was treated like this survived. I wonder if we would have had better luck if we did the Sucralfate every 8 hours instead of every 12, but I really don't see how that would have made a huge difference. We were giving it hours before or after Omeprozole and 1/2 hour before feeding, so hours after the previous meal.
 
Went to the vet today to get Gastrogard. I didn't know the local farm store would not have any. No vet in town carries it; they said they don't have any call for it. I will have to order some. Guess the Play Day and Rodeo horses do not get ulcers...

The vet is supposed to call me back about it.

Meanwhile, I got the papaya from Walmart. It is a pill form, 4 for an adult. I tried one myself. I gave Tipsey one to see if she would eat it and she crunched it up. So I will give her some in her feed tonight. For just one horse, the cost is not bad. If my grocery store carries papaya I might try making some, but where do I get aloe vera juice? I have a small plant but I dont' think that will quite get it!

I will treat it as an ulcer and it won't do any harm, even if the chiropractor finds something else.

As an aside, does anyone know if ulcers can trigger laminitis? Or viceversa?
You can buy aloe vera juice at any walmart, walgreens, cvs or grocery store since it's manufactured for people. Its in the section with vitamins, health food bars or metamucils. Usually on a bottom shelf. It has to be refrigerated once opened.
 

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