Stallion Help!!!

[RedTango]

So ive decided to make a brand new pen/stall for my stallion since he recently ripped thru his old one and got in with my 4 big paint horses....Something I wanna know, how do yall keep studs?I had mine is a 100X100 pen but he is always worked up about mares so he paces the fence alot and he looses weight when they are in heat...

I have him up in the barn now in a stall.

I would just like some tips on how some of you keep stallions up and healthy and out of trouble!

Im currently feeding him 1 pound of Strategy twice a day and 2 pounds of alfalfa/timothy hay.

thanks

 

[Matt73]

Can't really help you too much as my stallion is very gelding-like. At one point I had him stalled next to my mare and they could see each other and touch noses (she was in foal at this point, though). He's very very calm and cool and respectful. So, I guess I'm lucky that way. All my guys (a filly, a mare, and said stallion) are stalled. I only have one paddock right now, so I rotate (mares in the morning and stallion out in the afternoon or vice versa). Works well for me. So...like I said, sorry I can't help you much

 

[Tab]

I know this is kind of common sense, and I apologize for that, but it's important if you have a stud and rail fence that the boards are nailed on the inside of the posts. I have a 30" stallion that pushed arena boards out and was attacking my fullsized horse. I'm completely serious. He was underneath my gelding and kicking the crap out of him. The gelding was afraid for his life. Strangely enough that same stallion is now with stallions of a similar size and they get along like a bachelor band in the wild.

I can't reiterate enough that they were introduced to him as colts and gradually. They are all buddies now and I would never recommend putting mature stallions together. This was my way of giving this boy a life. Horses are gregarious and need company. Stallions very much included

I struggled with the same thing for a long time. Day in and out he'd pace the fence wanting a mare but also lonely for company. He was in awesome shape but I had to feed him a bunch to keep his weight up.

Maybe you could get him a goat friend?

 

[RedTango]

I know this is kind of common sense, and I apologize for that, but it's important if you have a stud and rail fence that the boards are nailed on the inside of the posts. I have a 30" stallion that pushed arena boards out and was attacking my fullsized horse. I'm completely serious. He was underneath my gelding and kicking the crap out of him. The gelding was afraid for his life. Strangely enough that same stallion is now with stallions of a similar size and they get along like a bachelor band in the wild.

I can't reiterate enough that they were introduced to him as colts and gradually. They are all buddies now and I would never recommend putting mature stallions together. This was my way of giving this boy a life. Horses are gregarious and need company. Stallions very much included

I struggled with the same thing for a long time. Day in and out he'd pace the fence wanting a mare but also lonely for company. He was in awesome shape but I had to feed him a bunch to keep his weight up.

Maybe you could get him a goat friend?

The kinda fence I had was small wire(small so he couldnt get his hooves stuck) and the fence was 6 feet tall..but he just finally had enough of being in there. He has never acted like this until now lol.

So ima build something now with wood panels. What size is yalls place for the stallions?

Ive been thinking about getting him a goat lol

 

[Tab]

Just a warning on the goat, sometimes they chew on horse tails. Found that out the hard way!

Mine share a large stall and an outdoor run. We use woven (red brand) field fence and haven't had any incidents. (knock on wood). The run is at least 10x20. With company they don't pace much at all. If your stud is young and very aggressive then you may need to be very watchful of any company you put with him

 

[denny10012]

So ive decided to make a brand new pen/stall for my stallion since he recently ripped thru his old one and got in with my 4 big paint horses....Something I wanna know, how do yall keep studs?I had mine is a 100X100 pen but he is always worked up about mares so he paces the fence alot and he looses weight when they are in heat...

I have him up in the barn now in a stall.

I would just like some tips on how some of you keep stallions up and healthy and out of trouble!

Im currently feeding him 1 pound of Strategy twice a day and 2 pounds of alfalfa/timothy hay.

thanks

 

[denny10012]

Hi,

Why cant you put him in with a breed mare or a mare you intend to breed him with....if your not breeding from him have him gelded and put him in with the mares anyway!!!

 

[Field-of-Dreams]

The way our guys are set up is:

Our stallion barn is across the driveway from the mare field, so there is a good 15+ feet between the fields. The stallion field is about an acre. It's post and board along all the fences. Since we have six stallions, we rotate who is out. The show stallions go out at night to prevent sunbleaching. They go out one at a time for 12 hours. Then they are in for 2 1/2 days, while the others take their turn. Yes, some of them pace. My buckskin probably paces pretty much the whole time. He's pretty thin in the summer and gets extra feed. The dun pinto, not at all. He's pretty fat.

He gets less. The others vary.

Later this summer he will slow down. Once August hits all the boys settle right down. Even Buck, who will gain all his weight back. Then next spring it starts all over again.

lucy

 

[ruffian]

How old is he? Could he be coming into puberty? If so, hang on! I had 3 colts that grew up together from the day they were foaled. As yearlings they started getting stupid, and by 2, downright insane! Could not be in runs next to each other without fighting constantly and drawing blood. So snip snip snip! 3 got gelded and one went to a trainers. It's SOOOOO much quieter!

My runs are cattle panels with a 2 x 4 at stallion chest high the full length, and an empty pen in between each run. Eve if they break the board they can't get through to anybody else.

 

[arabbossmare]

Electric fencing is easy to put up in addition to your current fencing. One wire where they usually push at will work. It will keep them off the fence. I also allowed my Stallion limited time out. During the pm or Am pending the weather. The heat can work for or against you.

One stallion I know of was a stall walker. We would have to tie his head high for a while just to get his back end to stand still. It came to a point where if he started again we just had to lay the halter where he could see it. I would probably recommend keeping the mares out of sight during heat periods if possible. If not then really limit his time out. Sometimes the pacing is good because it keeps them in shape! But the down side is to much pacing! I would get him off the Alfalfa if possible, it is very hard on the kidneys that combined with pacing and the sweating not a good combo. Good on the Strategy. It has a low sugar content! Perhaps add some beet pulp and rice bran.

Carla and Spike who says "everyone needs a shock now and then"

 

[wildoak]

Hot wire is the only thing that keeps mine out of the fence. I have four big runs behind my barn - probably an acre all together. Stallion in each of the end runs, sometimes with a mare or two, and mares/geldings/show horses in between. They pace this time of year absolutely, but mine are older now and have chilled a little bit

- if you aren't breeding him, try giving him free choice hay, toys, or some kind of safe companion. If he's really dropping weight you might think about upping his feed or adding beet pulp - one pound twice a day isn't a lot for a stallion in breeding season.

Jan

 

[RedTango]

Hi,

Why cant you put him in with a breed mare or a mare you intend to breed him with....if your not breeding from him have him gelded and put him in with the mares anyway!!!

Because I have all open mares..I am just getting into breeding the little horses and decided not to breed til next year.

 

[RedTango]

Thanks for the tips everyone..

Dream is just turning 5 years old..He has never bred any mares so I think that aggervating him since we have all these women in heat..

Okay so no alfalfa hay..gotcha..Im going to start adding Purina Junior horse feed in with his strategy, I use to feed that along in with it in the winter time and he looked great! but he is a pacer now...I dont like having no thin horses!

I'll let you know how it all works out in the end lol

 

[denny10012]

I would'nt take him off the alfafa!!!!! IMO there is nothing wrong with feeding him that what so ever...

Horses need lots of hay/ alfafa at all times, they should be chewing for most of the day...

and they need company ....IMO i would never put a stallion on his own, not natural...

Difficult in some cases i know but you could get a cheap gelding or re home one.

you could then put them together until he is aloud in with the girls...

I hate to see stallions stuck in barns or fields without company not right....

 

[RedTango]

I would'nt take him off the alfafa!!!!! IMO there is nothing wrong with feeding him that what so ever...

Horses need lots of hay/ alfafa at all times, they should be chewing for most of the day...

and they need company ....IMO i would never put a stallion on his own, not natural...

I hate to see stallions stuck in barns or fields without company not right....

So I have one person telling me not to feed alfalfa cause its bad on kidneys and one person telling me not to take him off!!!I know it does have high protein..When I showed rabbits they could not handle the high protein for to long..So maybe the alfalfa will be a occasional thing..

Yes I hate to see him alone as well. The pen I had him in allowed him to interact with the other horses, but he wouldnt stop ripping thru when they went into heat!Idk how he would react with a gelding..he didnt mind my big paint gelding so maybe I should look into that..

 

[denny10012]

So I have one person telling me not to feed alfalfa cause its bad on kidneys and one person telling me not to take him off!!!I know it does have high protein..When I showed rabbits they could not handle the high protein for to long..So maybe the alfalfa will be a occasional thing..

Yes I hate to see him alone as well. The pen I had him in allowed him to interact with the other horses, but he wouldnt stop ripping thru when they went into heat!Idk how he would react with a gelding..he didnt mind my big paint gelding so maybe I should look into that..

Sorry i know its confusing with lots of differant opions but the high protein is good for miniatures. Sometimes when you see a skinny miniature horse with a fat belly it can be down to lack of protein.

I have had minis for 5 years and always feed alfafa ..I have been told over and over again by people that have had miniatures for a lot longer than me that the alfafa is great for them.

I have had no problems ever and no fat bellies

Not sure the big horse would be a good idea unless he is very very carm and gentle.

If he was to kick out at your little boy in play it could really hurt him.

Cant think of another way round that at the moment, maybe someone else will come up with something. Good luck anyway

 

[arabbossmare]

http://www.myhorse.c...ise-choice.html

read above and then read below and make the decisions that you believe is best for your horse. I love alfalfa and I use it along with other choice hays pending the needs of the individual.

Reasons Not to Feed Straight Alfalfa to Your Horse

 

 

There are a variety of reasons that you should not feed straight alfalfa, ranging from diminished performance to colic and increased incidence of disease.

Diminished Performance

Alfalfa hay generally runs at least 18-20% protein, often higher. Not all of this protein is usable, as we will discuss later in this article. A mature working horse only requires about 12% protein. Dr. Michael Glades concluded after a study at the University of Maryland that horses with excess protein in their diets ran slower race times than horses receiving the NRC recommended amounts. He found that for each 1000 grams of crude protein that a horse ate above his basic needs, the racing times slowed dramatically, as much as 1 to 3 seconds.

 

Dr. Kerry Ridgeway points to an all-alfalfa diet as the cause of higher body temperature in working horses, caused by the extra work required by the internal organs to convert the protein to usable energy. He feels this leads to excess sweating and electrolyte loss, which can in turn lead to dehydration, impaction and colic.

 

 

Hypothyroidism, thumps, bad attitude<br style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; ">

According to Dr. Ridgeway, the excess calcium in an alfalfa diet interferes with parathyroid function and can lead to "thumps", muscle cramps and tying up.

 

Excess calcium interferes with absorption of iodine, a mineral necessary for proper thyroid function. Many horses on alfalfa become hypothyroid - the thyroid gets lazy. Symptoms can be a cresty neck, a horse that gets overweight very easily, develops dry and flaky skin, etc. Some breeds show hypothyroidism by becoming very "cinchy" and skin-sensitive, getting cranky when being groomed, or losing topline muscle and Haircondition. Mares that are hypothyroid often become infertile.<br style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; ">Horses that are hypothyroid may be very plump and shiny, but are unhealthy. They are simply retaining water in the tissues, and this inhibits proper movement. Ask any woman with P.M.S. how she feels when she is retaining water! If your horse is cranky and belligerent, resists bending and flexing, is very lazy or reacts emotionally, it may be hypothyroid.

 

 

Tying up

Researchers at Colorado State University and in Sweden reported on the effects of excess dietary protein on T4 thyroid hormone levels. Feeding protein above daily requirements decreases the T4 levels; optimum T4 levels are necessary for horses to metabolize glucose (blood sugar) properly. Glucose is the energy source used for work, and higher glucose levels are necessary during strenuous exercise. Higher glucose levels also delay the onset of lactic acid buildup in the muscles and blood. Lactic acid buildup causes the muscles to lose their ability to contract and Relax properly, and to stay in a contracted (tied up) state.

 

The excess calcium in alfalfa suppresses the magnesium levels in the body. Magnesium is necessary for muscles to Relax properly after the contraction phase. In the Colorado and Swedish studies, higher magnesium levels were found to increase the T4 thyroid hormone production. Mares and fillies are especially prone to be up on alfalfa, since they become magnesium deficient when estrogen levels increase during their heat cycles. Supplementing magnesium is often helpful.Kidney problems and Scratches

 

If your horse's stall smells like ammonia, he is in trouble. Some of the protein in alfalfa hay is actually non-protein nitrogen and/or nitrates, which are toxic to horses. In an effort to get rid of excess protein and these related substances, the body produces ammonia. This is very hard on the kidneys, and can also lead to respiratory problems from inhalation of the ammonia fumes. Healthy urine should be clear, not cloudy and foul-smelling.

 

The tiny tubes in your horse's kidneys will, over time, get clogged with the excess protein in alfalfa, and then the calcium will begin to form kidney stones. Alfalfa is particularly hard on aging horses - Karen E. Hayes, D.V.M., feels that no horse over age 15 should have any alfalfa at all.

 

Scratches, which are areas of open, oozing sores usually occuring on the pasterns and legs, seem to be related to increased photosensitivity. When the scratches are on white areas of the body, removing alfalfa from the diet usually clears them up.

 

 

Increased Incidence of Disease

Dr. T.W. Swerczek at the University of Kentucky feels that a diet high in protein and low in fiber can predispose stressed horses to become ill. Among the disorders he listed are Potomac horse fever, strangles, salmonella, ulcers, abortions, epiphysitis, etc. 'Stress factors can be weather, hauling, competing, even changing pasture companions.

 

Dr. Swerczek experimented with the diets on research horses that he infected with strangles. He divided them into two groups, and fed one group alfalfa and the other group grass hay. The horses fed alfalfa became so ill that even vaccines and antibiotics did no good. Yet, when he took away the alfalfa and high protein supplements, the disease disappeared on its own. The horses on grass hay experienced a very mild case of strangles that did not require any treatment.

 

He also feels that in the lactating mare, if the mare's kidneys are overloaded with high protein, the toxic metabolic wastes may be passed on in the milk and affect the health of her foal. Unhealthy foals with lowgrade colic or muscle aches from coughing can develop abnormal holding patterns in their bodies, which lead to faulty muscle development and crooked legs.

 

 

Enteroliths

California and the west where straight alfalfa diets are common have the highest incidence of "stones" in the country. Intestinal stones are formed from ammonium magnesium phosphate. The ammonium comes from the excess protein in the alfalfa. Another contributing factor is the low fiber in alfalfa, which keeps the gut from functioning properly and allows the stones to form. Dr. Robert Bray at Cal Poly University recommends cutting back on the alfalfa portion of the ration as a means of helping to prevent stones. Research has shown that horses with a history of forming stones cannot tolerate any alfalfa without a recurrence.<br style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; ">

 

 

Developmental Bone Problems - Disease

Too much calcium, as found in straight alfalfa hay, interferes with the absorption of copper and zinc. These two trace minerals are important for healthy bones. Too much calcium can also lead to a calcium deficiency, strangely enough. When the circulating levels of calcium are too high in the blood, the body has an automatic mechanism which kicks out the calcium before it can be used to build strong bone. Because much of the calcium in alfalfa is unusable by the body, it can either lead to an actual calcium deficiency, or be deposited in inappropriate places as splints, spavins, etc. The safest form of calcium supplementation is a supplement of amino acid chelated (bio-available) calcium, combined with chelated trace minerals.

 

Researcher T. J. Hulland, a researcher at the University of Guelph-Ontario, feels that most "contracted tendons" in young horses are the result of contracted muscles in the forearm and gaskin. The tendons and ligaments themselves are not capable of shortening, but it is possible for a young horse that is getting too much calcium and protein to have the tight muscle, or borderline "tie up" condition described previously. If the problem is caught early on, dietary changes can often prevent permanent damage. By reducing the protein content of the ration (diluting alfalfa hay with mostly grass hay) and bringing the calcium/phosphorous ratio closer to the ideal 1:1, and providing balanced minerals in a usable form, the foal is allowed to develop more normally.

 

Another bonus associated with a diet of primarily grass hay is the high levels of organic silica found in grass. This mineral is necessary for bone and connective tissue (collagen) to be properly formed. It is also essential for calcium absorption as bone is being formed. Current research is being done at Texas A & M University on the benefits of adding silica to the diets of growing horses. (An additional benefit of feeding grass hay - your horse's teeth may not need to be floated as often - the silica content of grass hay tends to keep the sharp edges worn down.) Bone is a living organ, constantly being formed and remodeled according to the mineral content of the body and the stresses placed upon it. Proper mineral balance is important!

 

 

Colic

Because alfalfa is very rich, it is not feasible to allow horses free access without them. becoming much too heavy. Problem is, alfalfa is also quite low in fiber. Horses need adequate fiber in order for their digestive system to function properly - they are designed to be nibbling constantly and to have some fiber in the tract at all times. When they eat alfalfa, they usually are done in a hour or so, and then nothing is entering the tract until the next feeding, usually many hours later. This scenario predisposes a horse to colic. With quality grass hay, the horse is able to "graze" on it all day, and does not become ravenous and gobble feed. If proper digestive aids (probiotics, yeast cultures) are included in the ration, the animal is satisfied with less feed and does not develop a "hay belly".

 

 

Arthritis

A by-product of protein digestion is acid. A horse that is on a high alfalfa diet produces excess acid. Equine bodies, like ours, need to be on the alkaline side in order to survive; a high protein diet triggers some emergency responses in the system. Since minerals are mostly alkaline, the body will pull minerals from the tissues and bones in order to buffer the acids in the bloodstream so that the heart can keep functioning. To the body, the heart has a higher priority than strength of bones and ligaments. As the tissues and bones become demineralized, ligaments become slack. You may hear clicking in the joints, and the horse will maybe develop a sore back because the muscles are having to do the work that the ligaments should be doing. As time goes on, the body will try to stabilize the joints by building up calcium deposits, and you will see osselets, spavins, navicular, etc. The stage is set, and the horse becomes more and more unsound. A lower protein diet (grass hay and plain grain) with proper mineral support can help prevent this scenario, and perhaps even reverse some of the damage.

 

 

Summary

We need to reevaluate our ideas of what a fit, healthy horse looks like. Much of the technology being used in horse feeds is from the cattle and livestock industry, where high protein rations, sugar and thyroid inhibitors such as alfalfa, molasses and linseed meal are used to fatten animals for slaughter or to increase milk production. Problem is, a fat steer is not expected to remain sound for 20+ years, to bend and flex and travel freely, and have a trainable attitude! Many halter and pleasure horses, especially young futurity horses, are pushed beyond their genetic and nutritional capacity and end up being unsound at a very early age. Many horses that are considered "untrainable" or high strung are simply physically and emotionally out of control due to thyroid or other metabolic nutritionally-induced imbalance.

 

Dr. Karen Hayes, D.V.M., states, "Under no circumstances should the amount of alfalfa in your horse's diet ever exceed 40% (by weight). Any more than that and you are risking the perils of excess protein and excess calcium, both of which can do some unbelievable damage. !f your horse's ration consists of 100% alfalfa, he may look healthy, but that does not mean it isn't taxing his system.”

 

We recommend top quality grass hay with perhaps a little alfalfa (maybe up to 20%) added for lactation and in some cases for growth. Feed plain (without molasses) grains such as oats, corn and barley mixed. Combined with balanced minerals in a bio-available (chelated) form, and the proper use of digestive aids to maximize feed utilization, this diet will produce healthy athletes that are sound in body and mind. Your horses will thank you!

 

 

Sources

• Bray, Dr. Robert E. "Enteroliths: A Potential Problem With Horses". Article prepared for EquiTech Conference, Los Angeles, CA. Nov. 1993.
• Hayes, Karen E. N., D.V.M. "Don't Let DOD Derail Your Foal", Modern Horse Breeding. May 1992.
• Hayes, Karen E. N., D.V.M. "The Great Hay Debate", Horse and Rider
• Hudson, Mary "Subtle Signs Of Lameness In Foals And Weanlings", Modem Horse Breeding Smith, Carin A., D.V.M.
• "Is Your Horse Hypothyroid?" Horse Illustrated January 1994 Stewart-Spears, Genie "Disease Linked To Nutrition", The Chronicle of the Horse. January 1992
• Thompson, Diana "Too Much Of A Good Thing", AERC Endurance News. October 1992
• Vandergrift, Bill, PhD. "Helping Horses That Tie Up", Modern Horse Breeding, September 1994

Please take a gander at this concerning alfalfa hay. I guess I was wrong about the alfalfa but still I would take a look at this.

Carla and Spike who says "To much of a good thing is still a good thing"

 

[REO]

Yes he needs hay in his gut, but why does it have to be only alfalfa or nothing? If he's getting a lot of high protein feed on top of only alfalfa hay (high protein) that may be a bit much? (I don't know the % of your feed) We feed a GOOD grass hay free choice! So our horses always have "grazing" in front of them. And we feed a 14% feed (Purina) and our stallions pace a little and work during the season and believe me, our horses are fat enough.

Ours are on Dry lot, no pasture grass.

I would switch him over to a nice grass hay (slowly) like Bermuda or a mix....free choice or several times a day. Feed him his feed like you are, and maybe a little alfalfa here and there. Give it a month and see how he's looking.

That's how we do it

 

[Little Wolf Ranch]

Maybe I just have unusual stallions but I have three stallions who live together on a permenant basis 24/7. They are two 2 y/o's and one 3 y/o. My other stallion is a 5 y/o and I feel the reason he does not tolerate other stallions is because he wasn't properly socialized when he was younger as we got him when he was 2 months old (LONG story) and he had to live by himself and with me - no contact with other horses. So now not only is he very protective of me, but he doesn't like other horses except for his mares.

Personally I would suggest electric fencing along with throwing out a round bale of hay for him to be able to munch on all day long. Food will keep him busy. I know this sounds weird but if he is really bad about the pacing and dropping weight. . .get yourself an automatic dog feeder for the large breed dogs. Put his whole portion of food per day on it and time it to feed him 4 times per day. My neighbor used it on his QH stallion during the breeding season because he was dropping weight so much and it worked great.

Also, I wouldn't mix Strategy with anything else unless it is a supplement because it is a balanced feed and just needs to be paired with an appropriate amount of hay.

. . . .Have you thought about getting him a gelding or spayed/infertile mare he can be pastured with? I know some stallions don't appreciate it but some do and I know you can find a lot of grade minis that need great homes too!

You've gotten great advice so far!!!

 

[denny10012]

I belive alfafa isnt that good for normal sizes horses if you feed to much but we are talking about miniatures and they need the higher protein.

They can get fat bellys if they lack protein ,just like a staving child would get ...

Yes it is good to mix your hay/ alfafa but IMO alfafa for miniatures is a must, you are better of leaving out the grain which isnt natural for a horses diet anyway and let them have their protein intake from the alfafa