NEGLECT?

[Minimor]

alrighty, people have been busy here. I've just read through everything written since my previous post & edit, and I have to say that you are not making things any better for yourself.

You have just given people a whole bunch more reasons to be down on you, and you have me thinking that I was right in what I was thinking about you in the first place, back when that other thread was first posted.

I could give you the benefit of the doubt, that maybe you really didn't know a lot about horses & with you not having a family background in horses, just knowing what to do for a thin horse isn't as easy for you as it is to many others--I could be convinced of that one. But then you advertise yearling mares being bred....and post about how it just happened that way and in any case it's a matter of choice...no, I'm sorry, I would have to say now that I definitely would not ever sell a horse to you. Yes, accidents happen, but I don't get the impression that you see anything wrong with a yearling filly getting bred, and I have the feeling from the way you write that you won't much care if every yearling filly on the place happens to get bred, and it doesn't sound like you've taken any steps to make sure that it isn't likely to happen again???? You've spent so much money on some of your horses, perhaps you should spend some of that money on cross fencing your property so that yearling fillies and stallions are kept apart??

Let's see--you bought your horses, decided you had too many so sold off a few, then got your feelings hurt and put them all up for sale, but now you're buying other ones? I'm sorry, but do you not see how others could decide just from your words that you are not a good person to sell to? You've done yourself more harm than everyone else combined.

 

[TINALEE]

OK SO IM GETTING TORN APART HERE.....AS I SAID I WILL TAKE IT ALL AS LEARNING....SO WHAT YOU ARE ALL SAYING IS I SHOULD NOT HAVE THE HORSES IN THE PASRTURE AND GIVE THEM FREE CHOICE TO GO IN THE BARN?I DONT HAVE THEM 'RUNNING WILD' I HAVE THEM ON 3 ACRES FENCED IN.THERE IS A LEAN OFF OF THE BARN WITH A HAY RACK INSIDE(4 SIDED WITH A 6 FOOT WIDE OPENING) ALSO THE BARN DOOR IS LEFT OPEN UNLESS I PUT SOMEONE INSIDE FOR XTRA WARMTH-FOALING ETC.WE HAVE A HAYRACK OUTSIDE AS WELL...YOU DONT FEEL THIS IS A GOOD WAY TO KEEP THEM?/BASH ME I DONT CARE-IF I LEARN SOMETHING I GUESS ITS WORTH IT....AS I SAID I LOVE CHILDREN AND ANIMALS I WOULD NEVER INTENTIONALLY HURT THEM SO IF ANYTHING I AM LEARNING HOW TO CARE FOR THEM BETTER....ALTHOUGH I MUST SAY I DO FEEL LIKE CRYING AND I FEEL I HAVE FAILED THE YOUNGER HORSES....

 

[Warpony]

OK SO IM GETTING TORN APART HERE.....AS I SAID I WILL TAKE IT ALL AS LEARNING....SO WHAT YOU ARE ALL SAYING IS I SHOULD NOT HAVE THE HORSES IN THE PASRTURE AND GIVE THEM FREE CHOICE TO GO IN THE BARN?I DONT HAVE THEM 'RUNNING WILD' I HAVE THEM ON 3 ACRES FENCED IN.THERE IS A LEAN OFF OF THE BARN WITH A HAY RACK INSIDE(4 SIDED WITH A 6 FOOT WIDE OPENING) ALSO THE BARN DOOR IS LEFT OPEN UNLESS I PUT SOMEONE INSIDE FOR XTRA WARMTH-FOALING ETC.WE HAVE A HAYRACK OUTSIDE AS WELL...YOU DONT FEEL THIS IS A GOOD WAY TO KEEP THEM?/BASH ME I DONT CARE-IF I LEARN SOMETHING I GUESS ITS WORTH IT....AS I SAID I LOVE CHILDREN AND ANIMALS I WOULD NEVER INTENTIONALLY HURT THEM SO IF ANYTHING I AM LEARNING HOW TO CARE FOR THEM BETTER....ALTHOUGH I MUST SAY I DO FEEL LIKE CRYING AND I FEEL I HAVE FAILED THE YOUNGER HORSES....

There is nothing at all wrong with keeping them that way. The problem is not with them living outside and having a run in, it is with them being allowed to breed at far too young an age for it to be healthy for them.

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

Dear Lord preserve us

Jane, I don't know what's happening. Maybe the world is coming to an end, but more and more I find your post very entertaining!

This is a prime example!

I am happy you are learning

Jill, you are always such a lady and always finding the silver lining in the cloud!

You've done yourself more harm than everyone else combined.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[TINALEE]

alrighty, people have been busy here. I've just read through everything written since my previous post & edit, and I have to say that you are not making things any better for yourself.

You have just given people a whole bunch more reasons to be down on you, and you have me thinking that I was right in what I was thinking about you in the first place, back when that other thread was first posted.

I could give you the benefit of the doubt, that maybe you really didn't know a lot about horses & with you not having a family background in horses, just knowing what to do for a thin horse isn't as easy for you as it is to many others--I could be convinced of that one. But then you advertise yearling mares being bred....and post about how it just happened that way and in any case it's a matter of choice...no, I'm sorry, I would have to say now that I definitely would not ever sell a horse to you. Yes, accidents happen, but I don't get the impression that you see anything wrong with a yearling filly getting bred, and I have the feeling from the way you write that you won't much care if every yearling filly on the place happens to get bred, and it doesn't sound like you've taken any steps to make sure that it isn't likely to happen again???? You've spent so much money on some of your horses, perhaps you should spend some of that money on cross fencing your property so that yearling fillies and stallions are kept apart??

Let's see--you bought your horses, decided you had too many so sold off a few, then got your feelings hurt and put them all up for sale, but now you're buying other ones? I'm sorry, but do you not see how others could decide just from your words that you are not a good person to sell to? You've done yourself more harm than everyone else combined.

I DIDNT MEAN TO SAY 'THIS JUST HAPPENED' I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE FINE TO BREED THEM AS I SAID I CERTAINLY DIDNT HEAR OTHERWISE AND FELT THIS WAS FINE AS I BOUGHT MARES FROM LONG TIME EXPERINCED BREEDERS THAT WERE IN FOAL....ALSO JUST TO CLEAR THIS UP I BOUGHT THE MARE AND FILLY BACK IN MAY WHEN THE FILLY WAS BORN.I BOUGHT THE MARE AND FILLY FROM WISTERIA MINIATURES,WE WERE WAITING FOR DOTTIE TO BE CHECKED IN FOAL WHICH SHE HAS NOT SO WE HAVE DECIDED TO WAIT UNTIL NEXT YEAR SO NO I DIDNT SELL HORSES AND BUY MORE.THESE HORSES WERE PURCHASED MONTHS AGO....YES I DID SELL 1 STALLION SO THAT WE COULD SEPERATE THE STALLION IF NEEDED.I HAD NO INTENTIONS OF SEPERATING THEM BEFOR TALKING TO THE COUPLE THAT BOUGHT MY YEARLING FILLY AND AFTER HEARING WHAT COULD HAPPEN SO NO I WAS NOT GOING TO SEPERATE THE PASTURES BUT NOW I SEE THAT THIS IS A HUGE NO NO....IM SORRY TO HAVE OFFENDED SO MANY....

 

[mininik]

Tina, if you are truly wanting to learn I think you should find a knowledgable mentor who lives nearby in addition to reading this forum. For now yes, you should separate any stallions from your herd to keep them from reproducing and to make it easier on you to see that they're all getting enough to eat while you learn about proper herd management. If rotating them into the barn is not your style, hot wire is cheap and you can put some up to make several separate pastures, but you'll have to "show" your horses what it means. You've obviously made a few wrong choices in the eyes of others, particularly in breeding those yearlings, but now you know and can move on. The best you can do is be sure that those fillies are taken care of to term and therafter, as well as the rest of your herd. As for the mare you placed in poor condition, I believe she is in good hands now so the best we can all do is move on and help guide you to take excellent care of the rest of your herd.

 

[Buckskin gal]

I am so sory this is making you feel so frustrated. One thing you will learn about this forum is you can voice your opinion as long as it is in line with what others think. I am proud of you for your honesty and there isn't anyone who can say they know it all. There is a lot that we have to let go of on this forum because not everyone tries to understand anothers point of view. One might encourage you to speak up and another might tell you to shut up...this is what I have learned from experience. I do hope you get over this fast and I am sure you will be open to learning. Mary

 

[Leeana]

May i make a suggestion ..?

Split up two other patures and make one for Weaned/young fillys and one for colts. That way you can still keep it 'natural' but have all the fillys together, all the colts together, then have a separate paddock w/ mares (breeding age!) for each stallion.

First step, get those yearling and jr mares out of the breeding pastures and put them in a separate 'nursery' so to speak. Thats the first step ...

Also, i've been to your website multiple times before and actually admired your horses. But, reading think kind of makes me take a step back and say 'hmm'. It probably was a GOOD thing you spoke up, but you have to relize this forum is a very very public forum

.

 

[Reijel's Mom]

I'm very glad you posted, TinaLee, it sounds like you have a lot to learn and that you are WILLING to do it, which is great! I believe that you do love your animals, now I think that you just need to take a whole lot of time to research how best to care for them.

Best of luck to you. You've just learned a lot, unfortunately it was in a hard way, but in the long run, it will be of huge benefit to your horses and because you love them, YOU will benefit from that.

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

I CERTAINLY DIDNT HEAR OTHERWISE AND FELT THIS WAS FINE AS I BOUGHT MARES FROM LONG TIME EXPERINCED BREEDERS THAT WERE IN FOAL....ALSO JUST TO CLEAR THIS UP I BOUGHT THE MARE AND FILLY BACK IN MAY WHEN THE FILLY WAS BORN.I BOUGHT THE MARE AND FILLY FROM WISTERIA MINIATURES

Are you implying that Monette is breeding yearlings? I'm confused. Did someone sell you a bred yearling? If someone did, and I doubt it would ever be Monette, I'm sorry that happened. That is something that should never be done and if it happened at my place, I'd personally have the vet out to end that pregnancy as it it very likely the mare wouldn't survive.

I'm glad you've stated you're interested in learning. You have some very nice horses, now you just need to get yourself a mentor and learn better herd and breeding management.

 

[TINALEE]

I CERTAINLY DIDNT HEAR OTHERWISE AND FELT THIS WAS FINE AS I BOUGHT MARES FROM LONG TIME EXPERINCED BREEDERS THAT WERE IN FOAL....ALSO JUST TO CLEAR THIS UP I BOUGHT THE MARE AND FILLY BACK IN MAY WHEN THE FILLY WAS BORN.I BOUGHT THE MARE AND FILLY FROM WISTERIA MINIATURES

Are you implying that Monette is breeding yearlings? I'm confused. Did someone sell you a bred yearling? If someone did, and I doubt it would ever be Monette, I'm sorry that happened. That is something that should never be done and if it happened at my place, I'd personally have the vet out to end that pregnancy as it it very likely the mare wouldn't survive.

I'm glad you've stated you're interested in learning. You have some very nice horses, now you just need to get yourself a mentor and learn better herd and breeding management.

OOOHHH NO NO IM NOT SAYING MONETTE SOLD ME A BRED YEARLING...GRACIOUS NO,MONETTE IS A SUPER SUPER NICE GIRL WHO HAS TAUGHT ME ALOT OVER THE LAST WEEK ALONE.

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

I CERTAINLY DIDNT HEAR OTHERWISE AND FELT THIS WAS FINE AS I BOUGHT MARES FROM LONG TIME EXPERINCED BREEDERS THAT WERE IN FOAL....ALSO JUST TO CLEAR THIS UP I BOUGHT THE MARE AND FILLY BACK IN MAY WHEN THE FILLY WAS BORN.I BOUGHT THE MARE AND FILLY FROM WISTERIA MINIATURES

Are you implying that Monette is breeding yearlings? I'm confused. Did someone sell you a bred yearling? If someone did, and I doubt it would ever be Monette, I'm sorry that happened. That is something that should never be done and if it happened at my place, I'd personally have the vet out to end that pregnancy as it it very likely the mare wouldn't survive.

I'm glad you've stated you're interested in learning. You have some very nice horses, now you just need to get yourself a mentor and learn better herd and breeding management.

OOOHHH NO NO IM NOT SAYING MONETTE SOLD ME A BRED YEARLING...GRACIOUS NO,MONETTE IS A SUPER SUPER NICE GIRL WHO HAS TAUGHT ME ALOT OVER THE LAST WEEK ALONE.

Whew! Great! That would have TOTALLY shocked me!!! Mo has been VERY helpful to me also and I have learned a TON from her. I actually feel like she saved my best mare from an early death by catching a health problem while she was at Mo's for breeding! I didn't even know my mare had a problem!!! Now I have a healthy mare who is HEAVY in foal to Champ for an early '08 foal!!

 

[TINALEE]

WITHOUT BEING ATTACKED PLEASE-CAN ANYONE TELL ME HOW FAR ALONG A MARE SHOULD BE TO GET A PREGNANCY TERMINATED???????YES I SEE IM BEING ATTACKED AND I REALLY SHOULD JUST DELETE THIS TOPIC BUT AS MUCH AS IM BEING ATTACKED I HAVE LEARNED ALOT,I DIDNT WANT TO LEARN THIS WAY BUT I GUESS IF THATS WHAT IT TAKES.....LUCKILY A TRAINER SENT ME A PM THAT OFFERED HELP WITH THE MINIS WITHOUT BEING ATTACKED....I DO UNDERSTAND THOUGH AS MOST OF YOU ARE LOOKING OUT FOR THE HORSES,I TRUELY UNDERSTAND YOUR BEING UPSET....

 

[Jill]

Tinalee --

I had discussed w/ my vet in the past about terminating a pregnancy. What he told me is unless it's just very early (days, weeks, month -- I don't know but WAY early), it's not safe to the mare to terminate the pregnancy. He told me the termination would actually be as bad as the delivery. This was about a mature mare I had bought, then letter tested positive for pregnancy though she was not to be pregnant when I bought her and I did not want a foal (this was in 2000). Not sure if what he told me applies to your situation but it would be something worth calling your vet on Monday to find out about.

Jill

 

[Cathy_H]

I had read your earlier quite lengthly post before it got deleted........ In that earlier post you had said that you did not realize that they ate all day long & the pasture was gone in a week so you realized you had too many horses (16) & decided to reduce your herd......... Horses do not NEED to be pastured. This is what we do if you want to consider it. (sorry if your pasture set up is described above - too much to read in detail) .......... We have 5 big dry lots with shelters where our horses spend most of their day.. They are turned out to pasture for 3 -4 hours a day depending upon the lushness of the grass. Each one of these dry lots has its own gate which opens into its own pasture. It takes time & money to set it up this way but we've been using this set up since 1989. We use to divide 23 horses among these dry lots but are now down to 6 horses. We also have 6 stalls in the barn that we can use during horrible weather or for the show horses.

AND I NOW KNOW NOT TO BREED A YEARLING OR EVEN NOT A 2 YEAR OLD WHICH REALLY SUPRISES ME TO HEAR AS I HAVE PURCHASED A FEW OF MY 2 YR OLD MARES IN FOAL BY EXPERIENCED BREEDERS

....................................... As you are finding out " Experienced breeder does not always equal responsible breeder " as BIG breeder does not always equal the best either.......... As for breeding age, we accidently had a yearling get in foal years ago & everything turned out fine..... We also had bred several 2 year olds if they were going to turn three by the time they foaled UNTIL we had our first foal that did not make it from a young 3 year old. We now wait until the mares are three.............................................. Since humans have domesticated horses it is our duty to always do what is best for them. Only God can control what happens in the wild but HE gave (some of us anyway) the common sense & compassion to make their lives better by learning to do what is best for them...................................... Listen to others but be forewarned that everything you hear will not be what you should do. We have shown & bred miniature horses since 1986 & we are still learning! We all make mistakes. When you are willing to learn & will do what is best for the animals you will be admired above the owner who does not care & lets nature take control... Best of luck to you!

 

[Charley]

Thanks for posting and asking questions....I have a feeling that this post will help others who are not so open in asking for help and admitting that they do not know it all. I, too, wish you the best!

 

[wade3504]

Horses are grazing animals and should have something to eat in front of them all day whether grass or hay. It's mostly mini people who insist horses being on dry lots. I think that's why many minis have more health problems than the big horses.

 

[mydaddysjag]

Tina,

Im not going to bash you, so please don't take anything I say that way. I think what most people here are angry about isnt that you don't know much about horses, but because you admit you dont know much and you breed them anyway. You have said yourself that you have had foals with some serious problems (dosen't matter if you bred the mare or not) But after having foals with these kinds of problems, you know what kind of heartache it gives. Do you realize that by breeding such young horses you are risking producing babies that could also have serious health problems? A yearling horse is still a baby, and isn't done growing yet, physically or mentally. I got my period when I was 9, are you saying that I was ready to produce children when I was 9 years old? If I remember right you live in PA? If so, what part of PA do you live in? Im also from PA and I know a few GOOD mentors in the state. You have nice horses, its a shame that your going to sell out instead of making some changes and getting better informed. I would divide your pasture up. You have 3 acres, so you have plenty of room to divide that into seperate pastures. Maybe make 1 pasture for your young mares/fillies, one for colts, and one seperate for the stallion and whoever is with him. I know your vet said the mare was alright, but if my vet said my horse was alright when it looked like that, I would be calling a different vet for a second opinion. I know how you feel, I have a 19 year old appendix quarterhorse mare who has a VERY hard time holding weight, but I do see a problem with it, and I do make sure she is wormed, fed an extruded feed that is easy to digest, she gets beetpulp, and a fat supplement. I have had her checked and they say shes just a hard keeper, and being a senior dosent help.

If you wanna know some good mentors in PA just let me know. I dont mean to sound pushy, but I wouldnt breed any of your mares in 2008 until you get better informed. Plus it wont hurt them to have a year off for a physical and mental break.