Need to Vent. Many colics, no answers

[Cayuse]

Poor little dude! Sending some healing vibes his way. I wonder if he gets a sudden gas build up?
I hope you can keep us posted as to what his management changes will be.

 

[patrpbfl]

Have you had your hay analyzed, for sugar,starch and especially for nitrates? EquiAnalytical does hay analysis. I have two mini's, one of them having been diagnosed in 2011 as insulin resistant. Since then I had both on a low sugar/low starch diet of orchard or timothy hay, depending on availability, and timothy pellets, and they were doing great until last year when my mare became laminitic.

Long story short, after much struggle, MANY vets bills, and so much pain on my mares part, we were able to track down high nitrates in their hay. I had only been having a regular analysis done, which does NOT include nitrates, so we were unaware of how high the nitrates actually were, which turned out to be 2200 PPM, which is toxic. This is toxic to any animal and can kill a cow. Horses are much less sensitive to nitrates than cows or goats, so my minis were able to tolerate it, but with consequences that I then had to deal with. I can't tell you how stupid I felt when I got that analysis result back.

I read that nitrates fluctuate in the hay, depending on the weather when it is cut, whether it is irrigated, what it is fertilized with; so many variables. My timothy and orchard hays had been coming from the western part of the US and I was told that the severe weather they have been having the past few years had affected the hay crops. I now feed coastal grass hay and test every new load for nitrates before feeding it. You can soak it in water to reduce nitrates, but that is very difficult in winter weather for many people.

Anyway, if the blood tests for insulin resistance have not been done ( glucose, insulin and leptin ) I would consider having them done. It's much less expensive and easier than dealing with a colic. Also make sure that the blood samples are handled correctly in order to get accurate results; I'm pretty sure they need to be frozen and shipped on ice. I think Cornell U is the only place to get a leptin run.

Sorry this has been so long, but if I can help keep someone from going through what my mare had to go through, it is a good thing. She's much better now, but it's been a long six months journey. Good luck with your boy. He's beautiful!

 

[Cayuse]

How is Rock E today?

 

[MyBarakah]

I know they can colic allot due to ulcers. Has he been treated as if he has ulcers?

 

[candycar]

Rock E is doing fine. Still at Rood & Riddle. Everybody loves him. The Vet that did the surgery thinks he may not be ready 'till Tues. They are doing more blood tests today. I really can't get much info from the surgery Vet. I'll have to wait 'till his primary gets back Mon. :-( I already have transport lined up for Mon. afternoon, but may have a back-up option. We all really miss him! The barn looks so empty and the girls just mope around.

 

[candycar]

Rock E Update 2: He's home! My friend and I picked him yesterday (12Mar) afternoon. He looks very slim The girls are happy to see him.
Surgery: Exploratory Laparotomy & pelvic enterotomy to evaluate large colon
Diagnosis: Colic- right dorsal colitis (thickening of colon wall) It may get better in time.
Recommendations & instructions: Stall rest with hand walking, little grazing for 30 days. In a few months he may be allowed to eat hay.
Don't feed hay at this time. Feed Equine Senior (Purina or Nutrena Safe Choice) 3-4 lbs a day.
Added supplements: Platinum Healthy Weight oil (10 ml 2Xaday) Platinum Performance GI (1/2 scoop a day) Can give 300-400 mg Simethicone 3-4 Xday if he gets gas. Avoid Banamine or Bute.

It's going to be hard for a while especially during feed times separating and timing things. At least it's not too hot yet for his stall rest and when I have to lock him up at night.

 

[Marsha Cassada]

That is a challenging regimen. Hope his troubles are over.

 

[Cayuse]

Glad he is home. Simethicone is awesome for gas, sometimes I give it to my guys in tablet form and they gobble it up like it is a treat.
No hay is hard. You can't explain it to them that it is for their own good . At some point, when he is healed up, will you be able to introduce hay pellets?

 

[Willow Flats]

Glad to hear Rock E is home! May he continue to improve daily. Enjoy your walks with him

 

[candycar]

Cayuse, I hope to get him on/back to his regular feed at some point, which includes hay pellets. I need to find the simethicone in a form he can take. He hates mint flavors and spits them out. I'll look into infant liquid I can syringe into him.

 

[amyjo]

Rock E UPDATE: Well, after a very hard time since Nov 18, We still have no real answers. His colic episodes became more frequent (every 10 days) with the two in Feb being real bad. Rood&Riddle got their CT machine up, and I made an appointment for 11 Mar. He started another colic as I was making the appointment! Got my reg Vet out the next day(yesterday) He said if we get him there now while he is colicing they might be able to see what's going on. I found a "shipper" to take us to R&R right away.
After ultrasound and much discussion we decided to do exploratory surgery. THET DID'NT FIND ANYTHING!!! except some thickening of his right ventral colon, which could be from all the Banamine he's had. Now they think it's a "gut motility issue" and could be controlled with "management changes". I don't know yet what those will be.

I'm waiting to hear from the Vet this morn on how he is doing. He can probably come home Monday.
I think I'll change his name to Rocky Road or Rocky Roid.
Here's a pic of the little guy

View attachment 39729

Hi,
I had a regular size horse with digestion problems (i.e. runny, sudden bowel movements like soup) and one vet said, oh, it's stress (for 2/12 horse very calm and level-headed); asked another vet, oh, he's in training; he was not being over worked.

I had a blood test pulled testing for food and environment allergies. bingo: allergic to oats, molasses, corn, bran.

This was like 15 years ago and feeds were not as specialty as they are now. I switched to Cool Balance from flint river farms or kentucky university (something like that) and 100 percent improved. cool balance is a low starch hay based pellet.

It's similar to a medical doctor who doesn't believe in chiropractic care. Either they do or they don't; there's no in between. Chiropractic works and sometimes we need to be a detective to find answers and the internet and more particularly this forum is the greatest source to start one in the right direction.

Keep looking for answers. It's out there, you just have to get there!

 

[amyjo]

Have you had your hay analyzed, for sugar,starch and especially for nitrates? EquiAnalytical does hay analysis. I have two mini's, one of them having been diagnosed in 2011 as insulin resistant. Since then I had both on a low sugar/low starch diet of orchard or timothy hay, depending on availability, and timothy pellets, and they were doing great until last year when my mare became laminitic.

Long story short, after much struggle, MANY vets bills, and so much pain on my mares part, we were able to track down high nitrates in their hay. I had only been having a regular analysis done, which does NOT include nitrates, so we were unaware of how high the nitrates actually were, which turned out to be 2200 PPM, which is toxic. This is toxic to any animal and can kill a cow. Horses are much less sensitive to nitrates than cows or goats, so my minis were able to tolerate it, but with consequences that I then had to deal with. I can't tell you how stupid I felt when I got that analysis result back.

I read that nitrates fluctuate in the hay, depending on the weather when it is cut, whether it is irrigated, what it is fertilized with; so many variables. My timothy and orchard hays had been coming from the western part of the US and I was told that the severe weather they have been having the past few years had affected the hay crops. I now feed coastal grass hay and test every new load for nitrates before feeding it. You can soak it in water to reduce nitrates, but that is very difficult in winter weather for many people.

Anyway, if the blood tests for insulin resistance have not been done ( glucose, insulin and leptin ) I would consider having them done. It's much less expensive and easier than dealing with a colic. Also make sure that the blood samples are handled correctly in order to get accurate results; I'm pretty sure they need to be frozen and shipped on ice. I think Cornell U is the only place to get a leptin run.

Sorry this has been so long, but if I can help keep someone from going through what my mare had to go through, it is a good thing. She's much better now, but it's been a long six months journey. Good luck with your boy. He's beautiful!

 

[amyjo]

Hi,
If soaking hay to remove dirt, allergens, dust, et cetera, try steaming. I use a wallpaper steamer, make a hole in a plastic tote and steam for 20 minutes or so depending on volume. They love steamed hay but it is possible to oversteam and it becomes like seaweed.

To be more specific, I soak hay for five minutes, drain, steam for 22 mins, drain, serve. so much dirt comes out it is amazing. My mini has breathing issues and this helps tremendously.

 

[amyjo]

Cayuse, I hope to get him on/back to his regular feed at some point, which includes hay pellets. I need to find the simethicone in a form he can take. He hates mint flavors and spits them out. I'll look into infant liquid I can syringe into him.

There is a great product out there in pellet form which they will eat called U-GARD which horse journal gave great reviews. comes in liquid as well. not terribly expensive.

Cayuse, I hope to get him on/back to his regular feed at some point, which includes hay pellets. I need to find the simethicone in a form he can take. He hates mint flavors and spits them out. I'll look into infant liquid I can syringe into him.

U-GARD makes pellet form and very palatable. i used it for years with good results. not too expensive.

 

[Kelly]

Oh wow Candycar! How is RockE doing now? He is still colicing every 10 days? Or did you find something that works for him? Did you get him on his regular diet?

Did you change his name to Rocky Road?

 

[candycar]

He's been doing wonderful! Thanks for asking!
After his month long stall rest, Thankfully it was winter. I'd hate to do it in summer..
I did finally get him on a regular diet. It took about 4 months of slowly introducing hay and pasture again. Lots of math involved ! We haven't had a colic episode yet. (temps fate )
He shouldn't have banamine or bute ever again, so I was dreading the day he might need it. Just so happens he had to have 2 teeth extracted a few months later and was given banamine, but not for long and no colic.
He is now my "million $ free mini". It's a good thing my fur kids are my kids and everybody gets a chance at our house...

 

[Kelly]

Oh thats wonderful!! I am so glad your million dollar FREE mini is doing so good!!! And I know what you mean, my fur babies are my ONLY babies so everyone is spoiled rotten

Yes lots of math involved with all of us I think… and I’m not good at math Just curious what his regular diet is now??

 

[candycar]

Current diet for all is: hay 3X a day, 1 hour pasture and 1cup(4oz) timothy/alfalfa pellets w ground flax & Remission (laminitis prevention). LOL! They get fed 5 times a day! It keeps me busy and out of trouble