Kinda of strange question.

[ladybug_and_payton]

I am very new to the whole mini horse thing. But love every min of it. I have a 10 year old mare who is pregnant. I have been noticing for a little over a month ago her tail keeps getting stained with poop. I just thought she was not raising her tail or something. Well about a week after I noticed this she went down with colic. The vet is preety sure she had sand colic. Which we have done the steps to correct it so hopefully it wont happen again. Well yesterday i was washing her off and noticed everytime she farts she pooped a little. I am just worried that she may have intestane problems or just the fact of stress or being pregnant. I dont want to have to call the vet out unless i have to. Cause I am still paying the vet bills for the colic episode. I mainly don't want to call him out unless i really need to cause he kinda acts like I am crazy cause I call him all the time cause i worry about stupid stuff. Thanks

Sorry if this sounds really stupid. I am new to the whole mini horse thing or horses period.

 

[chandab]

I'm really not sure, but to help others help you... How big is she (height? and weight if you know)? What and how much is she currently being fed? when was she last dewormed and with what product?

Hopefully, someone will have some ideas for you.

 

[Genie]

I will just throw out some ideas.

Maybe her stool is looser now due to whatever the vet treated the colic with?

Maybe she is overweight and/or has excess gas?

Does she seem to be uncomfortable?

Maybe this leakage is normal for her? I had a mare that was always messy looking around the butt and normally had loose stools.

I have no experience with sand colic so no thoughts from me there

If she seems comfortable and not rolling or "ouchy" I would likely just keep an eye on her and determine whether this is just normal for her.

We are fortunate here on the forum to have a couple of vets who often provide their feedback freely, so hopefully they will help you with expert advice.

 

[ladybug_and_payton]

I'm really not sure, but to help others help you... How big is she (height? and weight if you know)? What and how much is she currently being fed? when was she last dewormed and with what product?

Hopefully, someone will have some ideas for you.

Thanks. I am not really sure over her weight. I know her height is 32'' and She was dewormed about a week after she went down with colic she had not been dewormed in a while before that. I am not for sure of the brand I still have the package but i am not at home i am at work. She is feed one slat of hay in the morning and a handfull of grain in the evening. I know that the hay is not the best. But by the time we got the mini's all the good quality was gone in this area. So have had to get it throught a local store. Which a lot of people have to do in this area.

 

[HGFarm]

If she had sand colic, I dont know that one treatment will clear her up. Diarrhea can also be a symptom of continued sand colic. Perhaps put her back on another week of the psyllium and do that once a month for a while just to make sure she is cleaned out? Also, has she been wormed and is worm free? I would suspect that she still has some sand in there possibly. And if all this happened recently, her loose poop could be the result of the oil or whatever else she got from the vet?

 

[chandab]

Thanks. I am not really sure over her weight. I know her height is 32'' and She was dewormed about a week after she went down with colic she had not been dewormed in a while before that. I am not for sure of the brand I still have the package but i am not at home i am at work. She is feed one slat of hay in the morning and a handfull of grain in the evening. I know that the hay is not the best. But by the time we got the mini's all the good quality was gone in this area. So have had to get it throught a local store. Which a lot of people have to do in this area.

Is it grass hay? Mix hay? What grain (brand, formula)?

 

[ladybug_and_payton]

Is it grass hay? Mix hay? What grain (brand, formula)?

I am preety sure it is a mix hay. Which is all I can find. The grain I am not really for sure on it. Its just a plain white bag that we get at are local feed store. My aunt feeds it to hers bigger horses and suggest it to us and plus it was the same stuff she was on when we got her. So I am not really sure on the formula.

 

[AnnaC]

I think you need to step back and start again from the beginning. When you get home, please find the name of the wormer concerned. Then also the name of the feed you are giving her - not all mini horses do well on 'big' horse food - look at the feed sack and try to work out from the instructions, how much your mare should be having, also note the % of the contents (protein, fibre etc etc) which should be printed on the sack. Then come back here and post your findings.

As for your hay. I know it has been in short supply for many folks this year but can you give us some idea of its quality/make up. Is it quite hard and stalky or soft and leafy, or between the two. If it is quite stalky then this may be upsetting your girls system as minis dont digest stalky hay at all well and should avoid it if possible. You may have to substitute other bulk fibre if you can only get the hard type of hay, but if you can tell us about your hay and feed in more detail, we should be able to help you with a diet for your mare.

I would definitely treat your girl again for sand - do a week's treatment and then after a month do another week of treatment, and maybe even repeat it once again. You should be able to get a supply of psyllium easily enough.

Also I dont think you said anything about pasture - is she out at grass? If so for how long and is it good grass or poor grass?

Sorry for all the questions but we need answers if we are going to help. When you get home find the wormer, check your feed sack, have a really good look at your hay, write it all down plus the info about the grass and a bit about your mare's daily routine, then post it here and I'm sure you will get loads of positive help and suggestions.

I just want to say well done for asking questions, there is so much experience here on LB and folk are just happy to share it with you - even us 'old timers' are still learning new things from the responses to these sort of postings!

 

[Jill]

I would check into the things advised in this thread, but also, I don't think this situation of a somewhat loose stool would be out of ordinary given the hormonal changes horses (and people) go through with pregnancy. Wishing all the best!

 

[ladybug_and_payton]

I think you need to step back and start again from the beginning. When you get home, please find the name of the wormer concerned. Then also the name of the feed you are giving her - not all mini horses do well on 'big' horse food - look at the feed sack and try to work out from the instructions, how much your mare should be having, also note the % of the contents (protein, fibre etc etc) which should be printed on the sack. Then come back here and post your findings.

As for your hay. I know it has been in short supply for many folks this year but can you give us some idea of its quality/make up. Is it quite hard and stalky or soft and leafy, or between the two. If it is quite stalky then this may be upsetting your girls system as minis dont digest stalky hay at all well and should avoid it if possible. You may have to substitute other bulk fibre if you can only get the hard type of hay, but if you can tell us about your hay and feed in more detail, we should be able to help you with a diet for your mare.

I would definitely treat your girl again for sand - do a week's treatment and then after a month do another week of treatment, and maybe even repeat it once again. You should be able to get a supply of psyllium easily enough.

Also I dont think you said anything about pasture - is she out at grass? If so for how long and is it good grass or poor grass?

Sorry for all the questions but we need answers if we are going to help. When you get home find the wormer, check your feed sack, have a really good look at your hay, write it all down plus the info about the grass and a bit about your mare's daily routine, then post it here and I'm sure you will get loads of positive help and suggestions.

I just want to say well done for asking questions, there is so much experience here on LB and folk are just happy to share it with you - even us 'old timers' are still learning new things from the responses to these sort of postings!

To answer you question. The dewormer I used was safe-guard. The grain I can not find out any information on it. The store gets it in a truck and they just put it in white sacks. I will probley change there feed since i can not find any information on it. But she has been on the same grain for years and has not had any problems ( I contacted her last owner). The hay is very stalkey which is as good as i can get right now. Her grass is all beat down. But we try and take them out at least 2 or 3 times a week in the yard to get some fresh grass.

As for the colic I am not really for sure on it cause i belive this was happening before she get sick. I am not 100 percent but thinking back I am preety sure it was.

 

[supaspot]

i may have got this wrong but if she got sand colic that suggests shes on a dry lot and you said you feed her hay in the morning , you never mentioned feeding any more throughout the day or night , this doesnt sound like shes getting anywhere near enough fibre and that can cause loose stools and wet flatulence

if thats all she getting maybe she was eating sandy food through hunger

 

[ladybug_and_payton]

i may have got this wrong but if she got sand colic that suggests shes on a dry lot and you said you feed her hay in the morning , you never mentioned feeding any more throughout the day or night , this doesnt sound like shes getting anywhere near enough fibre and that can cause loose stools and wet flatulence

if thats all she getting maybe she was eating sandy food through hunger

She gets a slat of hay in the morning which will last her most of the time till that evening. Then she gets her grain. This is how the vet suggested i feed her where she had colic and he didnt want her over eating cause I was feeding her more them she should have had.

 

[Genie]

If miniature horses are popular in your area then the vet would likely have the best advice.

I just have to say though that many times our vet will ask "what do the people on the forum suggest?" or "do the forum members have any ideas?" when it comes to something that is not so straightforward.

I have no idea about sand colic as that isn't something common in this area. I do know that I wouldn't feed hay only once a day and grain on the late day feeding, even if the horse is fat.

For a fatter horse I would give a half slice twice a day and we also feed a mash with minerals and canola oil. Horses need to "graze" and a little bit of hay more often would make a happier horse in my humble opinion.

Many members of this forum have larger herds of horses and many years of experiences, therefore giving them a lot of knowledge yet still learning something new almost every day.

 

[ladybug_and_payton]

If miniature horses are popular in your area then the vet would likely have the best advice.

I just have to say though that many times our vet will ask "what do the people on the forum suggest?" or "do the forum members have any ideas?" when it comes to something that is not so straightforward.

I have no idea about sand colic as that isn't something common in this area. I do know that I wouldn't feed hay only once a day and grain on the late day feeding, even if the horse is fat.

For a fatter horse I would give a half slice twice a day and we also feed a mash with minerals and canola oil. Horses need to "graze" and a little bit of hay more often would make a happier horse in my humble opinion.

Many members of this forum have larger herds of horses and many years of experiences, therefore giving them a lot of knowledge yet still learning something new almost every day.

I agree with giving her more hay. Biggest reason he cut them back is cause her and her colt who gets less then her are both overweight. We allow them to graze in are yard and are neighbors for several hours during the week. You can see in a lot of my pictures they are very well feed. Thank you all for your advice.

 

[Windhaven]

If your horses are not on grass 24-7 then you are not feeding enough hay. You should try to divide your hay in half for morning and night.

Also with winter coming on, your grass probably does not have any nutrients in it. You said your hay is very stalky. So it sounds like your are forcing your mare to eat the very stalky parts because she is hungry, and this is causing some loose stools. Also might be the problem in sand colic, because she is trying to get all the good small stuff and getting sand with it.

I strongly recommend you give her a slab of hay at night also. There might be a lot of waste but it will be the stalky stuff she does not need.

You did not say when she was due to foal? If she is in her 3rd trimester then you are probably not feeding enough.

If you had pictures to post that would help.

Also call your feed dealer and see if you can get the ingredients to your feed. They should be able to provide that for you.

For a pregnant mare it does not sound like you are feeding near enough.

What is a handful of grain? A cup, 2 cups???

I would be giving this mare at least a cup morning and night. And then as she gets closer to foaling I would increase the grain along with the hay.

Don't get me wrong here. Vets are good but MOST of them don't know enough to give good recommendations on some stuff (like feeding). They know A LOT but they don't everything. You have come to the right place for suggestions on feed and much much more. People here have lots of experience and should be able to help you get on the right track.

Good luck and hope to see pictures of your little horses.

 

[Genie]

Is she nursing a colt as well?

 

[chandab]

To answer you question. The dewormer I used was safe-guard. The grain I can not find out any information on it. The store gets it in a truck and they just put it in white sacks. I will probley change there feed since i can not find any information on it. But she has been on the same grain for years and has not had any problems ( I contacted her last owner). The hay is very stalkey which is as good as i can get right now. Her grass is all beat down. But we try and take them out at least 2 or 3 times a week in the yard to get some fresh grass.

As for the colic I am not really for sure on it cause i belive this was happening before she get sick. I am not 100 percent but thinking back I am preety sure it was.

If your hay is that stalky, perhaps one of the bagged, chopped hay products would be available in your area; they are consistent in quality and not stalky. I don't know what might be available in your area, but here are the names of a few: TNT chops, Lucerne Farms (they have several varieties, I've used the regular HI-Fiber and my horse loved it), Triple Crown chopped forage and I'm sure there are more. Here are the links, so you can check out the products: http://www.tntforage.net/default.asp?id=293934&shopperid=&showsite=true

http://www.lucernefarms.com/ http://www.triplecrownfeed.com/forages-horse-feed-brands-horsefeedbrands [TC safe starch is a complete chopped feed, forage and vit/min in the bag; their other forage products are just chopped forage and would need to be fortified.]

Looks like Kent feeds has a chopped product: http://www.blueseal.com/equine/dynasty.php

Feeding these bagged, chopped products to a mini, while expensive to buy, you will probably save money, as there is usually little waste; but you would need to feed it in a tub of some sort to keep it off the ground.

It costs more than regular baled hay, but if its available in your area, Standlee makes compressed hay bales, as far as I know they are pretty high quality (they better be for the price compared to regular bales): http://www.standleehay.com/

 

[ladybug_and_payton]

Thank all of you for the advice. I am going to try feeding her more and try to find her better quality hay. I am going to see if anyone I know can spare a bail or two so I can try and see. Sorry if I was snappy at any of you but it is kinda hard to hear that I may be starving her. They are just like my children I worry and fuss over them the same way I do my daughter. Thank all of you. All of u are great group of people who really care. There was a comment about some one wanting to see pics they are in a album called ladybug and Peyton.

 

[chandab]

Thank all of you for the advice. I am going to try feeding her more and try to find her better quality hay. I am going to see if anyone I know can spare a bail or two so I can try and see. Sorry if I was snappy at any of you but it is kinda hard to hear that I may be starving her. They are just like my children I worry and fuss over them the same way I do my daughter. Thank all of you. All of u are great group of people who really care. There was a comment about some one wanting to see pics they are in a album called ladybug and Peyton.

You quite often hear: "they don't eat much, they are air ferns", "they don't need much", "don't feed them much, they'll get fat". You'd be surprised at just how much some can eat without getting fat, but then the next one basically looks at food and gets fat; so it's a bit of a learning curve to see what is best for your horse.

To help you feed her properly, its important that you get a good weight estimate on her (if you can take her somewhere and actually weigh her, that would be best), the LB info pages has a couple different formulas for estimating their weight, and they are a bit more accurate than weight tapes you can buy. Here's a link to the info pages: http://www.lilbeginnings.com/info/ This one should take you directly to the page with weight calculators:

http://www.lilbeginnings.com/info/misc/

As a general rule of thumb (just a place to start - yours may need more or less) a horse should recieve about 2% of its body weight in feed; so if it weighs 200# it should get around 4# of feed (in the winter with our well below zero temps for much of the time, that goes out the window and I give free choice grass or mix hay). [Mine are mostly 35-38" tall and weigh 325-375#, I feed them at least 7-8# of hay each daily, with my square bales that's about 2 flakes each daily (3-4 if its really cold), or I just fork some over the fence off the round bale, I've done it enough, I have a fair idea of what each needs.]

 

[AnnaC]

You have got a lot of good advice here and you are well on your way to getting things sorted for both your minis. Basically, remember that minis are horses and to 'function' properly they need to be 'grazing' approx 20 hours out of 24 (they are snoozing for the other 4!) So you need to provide 'food' on a little but often basis. Your hay or other fibre 'fillers' will provide the basic feed which you then need to top up with your concentrate feed.

Go to your feed merchants and get a bag of a good well known brand of horse feed - even if your mare has been on the old food for a long time before you got her it doesnt mean that it was doing her any good! Make the change over between the old and new feed slow - over a week - plus add in some sort of vitamin and mineral supplement or one of those hard blocks that the horses can help themselves to.

You need to worm them both again - use an Ivermectin wormer so that you can catch any bots that they may be carrying. (Warning, do not use Equest/Quest wormer on minis). Two or three weeks after you have wormed them I would take a dung sample to your vet to get it tested for any remaining worms, just to be sure everything is on the right track. Mind you, if your vet seems to think that minis arn't worth bothering about and has given you the impression that your questions are a waste of his/her time I would be looking for new vets!!

You are not starving your horses, but you do need to get hold of some better quality food for them and to increase the amount of the basic fibre you are feeding. If you are feeding twice a day, then you need to feed both hay/fibre and concentrate feed at each feed, not hay at one and feed at another, it needs to be more balanced over the two feedings.

Good luck, please let us know how things progress and keep asking those questions!