A genetic marvel or what?

[Margaret]

I sold this brown and white pinto mare to a friend of mine, and she brought her back to me- to breed to my cremello stallion, in 05.....Almost 1 year later we had a baby filly over a month ago, and low and behold, it was a cremello/pinto.

: Now correct me if I am wrong,- but doesn’t it require two cream genes, one from each parent, to make a cremello? ( at least that’s what I thought) Anyway, I just wanted to show the cremello filly that came from that cross. Needless to say we were quite surprised. Do you suppose that mare is hiding a cream gene? :new_shocked:

 

[Ashley]

The mare is either a smokey black or a buckskin as yes it takes two creams to make a cremello

 

[Lisa]

The mare looks like she could be a smokey black. Any pics of her parents?

 

[Miniv]

Definitely possible that the mare is carrying a cream gene. I own a mare that looks exactly the same color as your's.....and also pinto, btw. I happen to know she has a cream gene because her full brother is a buckskin and she has produced a palomino foal - crossed with a solid silver bay that has no cream behind HIM.

MA

 

[CheyAut]

For $25 you could have her tested for it...

Jessi

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Cream is very difficult to hide- the only colour that totally absorbs it without reaction is Black.

By process of elimination, it is not so much that your "brown" and white mare is "hiding" Cream, more that your mare is actually Smoky Black and showing it- which is unusual but known.

The other possibility is that the foal is not Cremello/Perlino but Maximum Sabino/Splash- is the sire of the foal also Pinto??

 

[Margaret]

The Sire was Cremello, born out of a Palomino, and a buckskin, with a small star on his forhead, and one white sock. (which blended in as time went on). He has produced a palomino colt with our silver-bay mare.

: I purchased the mare from a pinto breeding ranch (that claimed she hadent seen a cream horse on her farm in over 20 years) Anyway the sire of the dam is Solid Gold Tender Design- I believe he is a Chestnut miminal Pinto, and the dams dam is R-registered as Ambrosia Jibaro-she looked like a multiple colored pinto to me, but was registered as Grulla. Hear is another close up of the dams head.

 

[Songcatcher]

My stallion (in avatar) is Smokey Black. He has no dilute colored horses in his pedigree whatsoever. Imagine my surprise when all three of his foals born here this year were dilutes (from non-dilute mares), two Palomino Pintos and a Buckskin Pinto.

 

[CharmedMinis]

I believe your mare is smokey black. Her coloring looks pretty much just like my filly who I've had tested to be a smokey black. Pretty foal they made!

 

[rabbitsfizz]

That is the problem with Black + Cream- not many people can identify it and, to be honest, it does not show Cream often, anyway.

I think the mare is a Smoky Black that actually shows the Cream, thus explaining the possibility of Cremello/Perlino in the foal. There is still the chance that the foal is maximum Sabino / Splash and is, in fact White!!!

 

[Karin - NaKar Miniatures]

In the first photo the mare looks like a brown and white color. If she is more the brown color than black, I would say that she is a smutty palomino. So she very well could have a cremello gene. Only sure way to know is to have her tested.

 

[Meavey]

She does not look bay, brown or buckskin at al, she is smokey black.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I would agree- the colour is too even for Sooty Palomino.

Smoky Black does look that "brown" colour when it exhibits at all. That is our whole point.

 

[Margaret]

Thanks Guys...Here is a better color picture of her in the sun. Only problem is that it was so bright and hot it was hard to get them to hold their heads up and eyes open..so thats why we photographed in the shade.

Another intresting note is that the baby when born came out with white and pink pinto type patches of a darker cream, which is slightly visible on her forehead in this photo..- Like a cremello/ pinto. ( if there is such a thing) But she got shaved down,- because of a rash- that has now subsided... so now she now appears to look all white. But she does have some gold pinto markings on her, when in the brighter lighting. So are we thinking the foal is perhaps a cremello/pinto,- providing this mare is a smokey black?

 

[Songcatcher]

Thanks Guys...Here is a better color picture of her in the sun. Only problem is that it was so bright and hot it was hard to get them to hold their heads up and eyes open..so thats why we photographed in the shade.

Another intresting note is that the baby when born came out with white and pink pinto type patches of a darker cream, which is slightly visible on her forehead in this photo..- Like a cremello/ pinto. ( if there is such a thing) But she got shaved down,- because of a rash- that has now subsided... so now she now appears to look all white. But she does have some gold pinto markings on her, when in the brighter lighting. So are we thinking the foal is perhaps a cremello/pinto,- providing this mare is a smokey black?

I think the evidence continues to support Smokey Black for the mare.

 

[Michelle@wescofarms]

We have a few horses that carry a dilute gene on black. They are registered black with both registries.

Baron (Wesco Farms The Roger Baron)

Sire: perlino (buckskin x buckskin pinto) & Dam: black (black x blue roan)

Yearling photo taken last week and as a weanling

Charm (Wesco Farms LM Miss Charming)

Sire: black (black x buckskin) x Dam: palomino (chestnut x palomino)

Yearling photo taken last week and as a newborn

Dresden (Wesco Farms Avrils Dresden Doll)

Sire: perlino (same as Baron above) x Dam: silver bay (registered parents color dun pinto x bay)

weanling photo

 

[Margaret]

Wow, Songcatcher, What a color producer you have in your Black and white pinto Stallion! What more could you ask for in color. I went and saw your babies out of him this year, and sure enough he has produced some wonderful cream combinations! You would never guess it by looking at him though.

:

Michelle, your beauties are a fine example of how this cream gene can hide as well...Thanks for sharing your photos.

:

Do you suppose this filly can be deemed a cremello/ pinto?

 

[Songcatcher]

Wow, Songcatcher, What a color producer you have in your Black and white pinto Stallion! What more could you ask for in color. I went and saw your babies out of him this year, and sure enough he has produced some wonderful cream combinations! You would never guess it by looking at him though.

:

Do you suppose this filly can be deemed a cremello/ pinto?

What I find remarkable is that until this year, the only dilute he produced was one palomino out of a palomino mare. This year, all three born here are dilutes, one born to an outside mare is Black/White.

It does sound like your filly is a Cremello Pinto.

 

[Matt73]

Could it not be albino (with two blue eyes and the pink skin?)?

 

[crponies]

No, true albino does not exist in horses. Also, true albinos have absolutely no pigment and so the eyes would be pink/red from the red blood showing.