Why not DNA a stallion

[Sandyboy1]

What are the good reasons you can think of for a breeder not DNA'ing a stallion before advertising him as a champion driving horse or offering him as a stud? And why would the breeder not register the filly sired by the above stallion, but be asking a high dollar amount for that unproven filly? I don't breed, I have wonderful geldings from great breeders, but if I were a breeder I believe I would complete those steps if I thought the horses were solid show and/or breeding stock. Can you explain this to me? Would the breeder just be waiting to see what other foals produced by this stallion are like? Just curious about good selling and buying practices...

Pam

 

[minimomNC]

There is no good reason to not DNA a stallion that has sired an AMHA registerable foal. None what so ever. Unless he is dead. AMHR doesn't require it so doesn't matter to them.

 

[Miniv]

If the stallion is AMHA registered, it will be required before any of his foals can be registered.

MA

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

Hmm I cant think of a good reason. If this is an older stud he may meet the time requirements to not have to have his offspring DNA'd I am not a AMHA member anymore but wasnt it something like born before a certain year and less then 5 offpsring a year you dont have to DNA?

But in this day and age I cant think of any reason I personally (assuming i was an AMHA breeder) would NOT DNA and PQ my horses and should R choose to take this route I would do that to of course.

I am the first one to tell you PQ doesnt mean the horse is sired by what the papers say it isnt full proof by any means but it is something

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

[I believe PQ does mean the sire and dam is true PARENTS of horse.. PQ means "Parentage Qualified"....

Why do you say it "isnt full proof by any means"?

Do you not believe in DNA testing? Just wondering?

500999[/snapback]

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Well it does mean yes that the stallion and dam that had HAIRS PULLED are the parents of said foal.. however that doesnt always mean the horse is who it says it is on paper.

I to didnt understand for a long time however a couple of breeders actually TOLD ME how they get around it..

They have papers for say horse A who is sired by a big time horse and on paper worth alot...

That horse has died , they sold it as R only under a different name, or they never even owned it only bought the papers (yes folks this does happen )

They then have in there possesion stallion B who they say is stallion A - they pull his mane hairs and DNA him.. they use him to breed all there mares of course all the resulting foals will PQ it is there sire however... that doesnt mean always that the sire is truly the horse on the papers. YOu might have a horse that is PQ'd to be horse A offspring but truly is horse B offspring even though they PQ'd I am not saying it happens all the time Who knows how often it does but in my mind anyway the fact is DNA is only as honest as the person pulling the hairs which is why I said it isnt full proof by any means I do think it is a start and about as close as we have at this point to attempting to make it honest however... I did hear from some obviously low ethic people how to get around it and I am sure our breed isnt the only one and perhaps there is even more ways around it that I havent heard of but again.. it is a start and the best tool we have right now but remember.. truth about our breed is.. wasnt to long ago when papers were bought and sold and horses were bought at auctions to match the papers.. most of us have heard the stories by now and our breed is not immune to what others have gone thru.

 

[Becky]

Mary Lou,

I'll answer your question regarding Lisa's post. Just because a horse shows to be DNA'd and Parent Qualified on it's papers, doesn't necessarily mean it's the same horse in front of you. Horses can still be switched. Hence the reason in order to make Parent Qualifying really mean something, permanent identification is a necessity.

As to Sandy's questions, I can see no reason not to DNA an AMHA stallion even an older one. I, personally, want to know that every horse I breed will PQ to it's parents. All of my broodmares are DNA'd as well. I can't imagine asking a large price for a horse that's not registered!

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

hee hee thanks Becky for saying what I wanted to say only you did it in a few sentances that made sense and I rambled on and probobly didnt

 

[Becky]

LOL, Lisa! I think I was posting at the same time as you. I think a lot of people don't understand that while DNA testing alone is important, it has it's limitations and those that want to cheat will still find a way.

 

[Bess Kelly]

Sadly, if a person WANTS to cheat, they will find a way.

That said, most farms are/have been trying to close off the obvious missrepresentations........I know that many of my mares are ones who have been with me a long time and they were DNA'd when it was first introduced and it was a voluntary thing. Did whole herd

It may not be perfect but, is best we have right now. Sure better than one who has no background to follow, IMO. I've PQ'd my foals since it was an option.

 

[Sandyboy1]

I sincerely appreciate your views. I thought it was odd the stallion isn't DNA'd but needed to know if you would concur.

Pam

 

[Sue_C.]

If he was born in 1995, or before, and bred to five or less mare, he doesn't HAVE to be. But...if they have him advertised to stand for outside mares, why wouldn't they DNA him? Chances are if he is a stallion people would want to breed to, breeding five or more mares, including their own, wouldn't be difficult.

 

[Sandyboy1]

Well, he was born more recently, so I do wonder! As far as I can tell he has not previously stood to outside mares.

Pam

 

[Ashley]

And why would the breeder not register the filly sired by the above stallion, but be asking a high dollar amount for that unproven filly?

Maybe she is gonna go over 34. I know if we have foals out of our AMHA mares that we feel will go over 34 we dont registure them A. IF they are gonna be boarderline then we will, or leave it up to the buyer to if they want to.

 

[Kim]

If you're talking about the horse that you asked about on your previous thread, the owners are probably currently in the process of DNA testing the stallion. Since he has had no foals prior to this year, there has been no reason to test him prior to this time. As for the 2005 filly, her registration probably just hasn't gone through yet. I am sure that if you contact the owners of the stallion they'd be more than happy to answer your questions. I'm sure that there is a logical explanation for your concerns.