What is Socialism?

[LowriseMinis]

The American Heritage dictionary defines socialism as "Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy."

If that's a little vague, try the flower shop analogy someone shared with me.

"Socialism is when the government controls all the means of production. That is, when all industry is state run.

In a variation of socialism, the means of production can be privately operated, but all products and profits are state controlled.

Taxation is not socialism. If you own a flower shop, and the government comes to your flower shop and picks up all of your flower arrangements and distributes them throughout society as the government sees fit, that would be socialism. If you sell those flower arrangements yourself, and the government comes around and collects the ENTIRETY of your profits and distributes them throughout society as the government sees fit, that would be socialism. If you and all your co-workers were government employees working at a state run flower shop, arranging flowers and distributing them as the government sees fit, that would be socialism.

Selling flowers and then paying proportional taxes on the profits made by selling those flowers is not socialism.

If you believe that income tax is a dangerous step towards the total appropriation of revenue by the government, then John McCain is a socialist. Reagan was a socialist. Almost every president since the civil war was a socialist. Ironically, if you equate the level of income tax with the degree of socialism, the US becomes a hole of socialism and Russia is a socialism-free paradise."

Lately people have been trying to pin Obama with a socialist label because he's discussing 'redistribution of wealth'. If Obama were planning to have your paychecks go directly to the U.S. government, mix everything together, and then cut every single working American a check for the exact same amount, then they'd be right. That would be socialist.

But that isn't Obama's plan. Obama's plan is to play around with tax numbers a bit (note that McCain intends to play around with tax numbers, too), and give people with less money a little break, and ask those who make a little more to pay a little more. This is his only plan for 'redistribution of wealth', and it involves taxes, not socialism.

Now, why in such a great society do we need to redistribute wealth? Let's look at these stats from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distribution_...e_United_States

"In the United States at the end of 2001, 10% of the population owned 71% of the wealth, and the top 1% controlled 38%. On the other hand, the bottom 40% owned less than 1% of the nation's wealth."

That seems a little unbalanced, doesn't it? But that is the nature of a capitalist system. Some people are going to be more successful than others. No one-not even Obama-is going to change that. But looking at the difference, that is a BIG number. 1% of Americans have 38% of the money? And the lowest 40% have only 1%? Maybe those lowest 40% are there because they've made bad decisions, they don't care to better themselves, but I refuse to believe that 40% of the nation is so unambitious.

Obama's tax plan, like some plans before his, seeks to give a little break to those with less, and ask a little more of those who have it. But regardless of who ends up in office, taxes won't go away. We'll still be asked to pay a share to support the government, infrastructure, schools, defense, and a little bit for those who need a hand up. But those who have more will still have more, and those who have less will still have less. That is still capitalism.

 

[susanne]

Socialism, as applied by Karl Rove and other spinmeisters, is nothing but politspeak that the GOP uses to terrorize the gullible. I'd like to see where this country would have been without FDR, but -- ooh, scary! -- his programs were socialist according to the Far Wrong Republicans.

Perhaps our economy is like a brilliant, yet headstrong child -- it's good for everyone when they can be given their head, but every now and then they need to be corrected and controlled.

I'd like to know how even the RRRs can believe that taxes will not be raised to pay for GBW I (George Bush's War I) and now the Wall Street bailout. Can I sell you some swampland?

Taxes WILL be raised no matter who is elected. For the first time since before Reagan, we might have more equitable taxation.

 

[Tango]

I am kind of middle of the road when it comes to these political views which is why it is still a difficult decision for me even now to know who I want to head our country.

As far as taxes go, I think we need a flat rate income tax straight across the board. For example, if John Doe makes $10,000 a year and his tax rate is 5 percent, then Donald Trump, who makes who knows how much a year, should pay the same 5 percent. ( The 5 percent figure is just a number out of the air.) Why discriminate against income classes when it comes to taxes? And all those wealthy folks who complain that their income taxes are just way over the top, obviously they must have made enough money to warrant the tax. If it is such a burden on the wealthy to have to pay such high taxes, then why don't they just get a job that pays a whole heck of alot less?!

Or maybe just don't accept that million dollar bonus this year and that will cut down on your taxes.

And for the folks who sit at home and think the Government owes them something and collect check after check without even trying to better themselves and then have the audacity to complain, makes me just want to pull my hair out! Expecially when you hear the children of those folks tell you they don't need an education, they will just go on welfare.

Maybe we should just do away with income taxes all together and go to a national flat rate sales tax. That way, everybody will pay their fair share. No tax dodging, no tax deduction fraud, no billions of dollars spent year after year in printing up tax booklets and forms to file income taxes. Just think of the revenue this country could bring in and think of the money that could be saved. Everyone from the local drug dealer to the highest paid tax dodger would be paying sales taxes. Would also help do away with the bickering about where our income tax dollars are spent.

Change "welfare" to "workfare". Every town and county has roads and highways full of trash that could be picked up or weeds chopped.. the list goes on. There is always something that people could do to earn their welfare dollars.

The problem is politics, plain and simple. Everyone has their own agenda and big money pulls the puppet strings.

Just my opinion for what it is worth.

 

[Jill]

Palin is a no-brain? Not the impression I get. Her supposed lack of a brain hasn't held her back from being a successful woman. I find her to be a very admirable person, and of course McCain as well.

I do think if Obama is elected, there will be tremendous public dissatisfaction while he is in office. If he's elected, I truly hope you ladies are the ones who are right.

 

[Tango]

When a vice presidential candidate is unclear of what their role would be in the senate, has me raising my eyebrows a bit. I can only imagine the embarrassment that McCain silently suffered over that one.

 

[susanne]

How about when she cited Dick Cheney as an example of what the vice president could be.

Now that's a great way to distance themselves from Bush! McW rears its ugly head.

 

[bingo]

I would like to add that the term "share the wealth" was another blown out of control thing that has no real truthful meaning other then to scare people.. McCain is really loosing it to a point of acting with a total loss of mental function with his age.. Watched his speech today and it is sad that he has to scare people into voting for him.. And now that no-brain Palin is going off on her own and saying things against McCain.. the party is a mess.. I almost wish we could have a few more weeks to watch it totally implode.

I do have to agree it is a bit alarming that the McCain camp is talking about how out of control she is and how they feel they unleashed a monster *paraphrasing here as I can not remember the exact term that was used*

Either way I will be very glad when this whole thing is over. Not long now!

 

[Bassett]

edited

 

[Adela]

I'd like to see where this country would have been without FDR, but -- ooh, scary! -- his programs were socialist according to the Far Wrong Republicans.

Yes, we will be paying the price for what FDR initiated in this country for a looong time

 

[susanne]

And what would you prefer have been done to end the Great Depression? I'm so thankful the RRR are able to rewrite history.

(and if any of the deleted comments were aimed toward me, go ahead and PM them)

 

[Shari]

Totally off subject....

But I love your Sig lines Susanne!

 

[Adela]

And what would you prefer have been done to end the Great Depression? I'm so thankful the RRR are able to rewrite history.
(and if any of the deleted comments were aimed toward me, go ahead and PM them)

For starters repeal the 1913 bankers act that gave the private bank the authority to print and loan us back the US dollar. If it was not for this bankers act there would have been no great depression and no worries now. In fact there are at least 63 trillion reasons to nationalize one bank and one bank only, The Federal Reserve. The reason we were sold this false bill of goods is that the central bank, the "Federal reserve " would keep the markets stable. The first great depression was the first revelation that this giving the sovereignty to the central bank was a bad idea.

Thomas Jefferson was quoted "If we ever allow a central bank (federal reserve) to print our money and then by inflation and deflation control the value, they along with the corporations that grow up among them will one day deprive the people of all they have."

We have drunk the false propaganda, we no longer have money but debt notes from the federal reserve. They have no value. It is called fiat money. The fact is FDR did not pull us out of the depression. We were further in debt and unemployment was rising. It was not until WWII that we were pulled out through warmongering.

Since the Federal Reserve took over printing our money it is 97% of the way to zero. A dollar today would not be worth a nickel in 1913. The great depression was caused by a credit freeze and pulling in of the money by the Federal Reserve. They decided then as they do now, what business would fail and which would succeed.

 

[Jill]

And what would you prefer have been done to end the Great Depression? I'm so thankful the RRR are able to rewrite history.

[SIZE=10pt]"When he [barack Obama] says that he's not going to continue the Bush Tax Cuts -- Let me translate that into plain English. He's going to raise taxes by more than any President has ever raised taxes in the past. That is precisely the mistake that was made in 1929 and 1930 that took a recession, a difficult one, and made it into The Great Depression." -- Rudy Giuliani, October 14, 2008[/SIZE]

 

[Marnie]

If it comes from Rudy Giuliani, I'd believe every word!

I think Obama has stated well and stated it clearly, right from the beginning, his policies on taxes, do people not listen or just don't hear? Or don't want to hear? And if you don't like it, that's ok, you don't like it but he has been clear and steady, just like all his other issues. Back to the depression now, I don't remember it.

 

[susanne]

I'm glad to see that the Great Depression can be summed up as being caused by one thing (or two separate single things, lol). I've always understood that numerous factors were to blame.

 

[shelia]

What I believe McCain is trying to say, is Obamas plan could lead to socialism. The reason he thinks this is because if you add taxes to large business (we already have some of the highest corporate taxes in the world) More business will leave our country. This will leave us with more unemployment. The country will have to support all of the people who can't find a job. The government will create some jobs for some of the people. With the high taxes it could be more profitable to work for the government than to start a business here. People can still have small businesses but they will not employ many or any people. Eventually the government could control almost everything. This could happen gradually, over years.

Neither candidate seems to have a real good answer on how to get our jobs back. Obama wants to get them back by taxing the ones that hire overseas and give credit to the ones who hire here. McCain want to reduce there taxes so they will come back. I don't believe they will come back unless we lower our standard of living to below any country in the world and agree to work for .30 a day. Those jobs are gone for good. We need to create new ones. Obamas idea is to create government funded jobs and McCains idea is for people to be able to create there own.

 

[Bassett]

Well said Shelia.

 

[AppyLover2]

I agree Sheila. It's nice to see a new perspective.

 

[Jill]

Well said and exactly right, Sheila!!!

 

[Jill]

I'm glad to see that the Great Depression can be summed up as being caused by one thing (or two separate single things, lol). I've always understood that numerous factors were to blame.

Would you care to elaborate? Without googling