sr mini w/ founder & cushings

[MindyLee]

I am pet sitting a 30 yr old mini gelding who is foundered and also has cushings.

When I 1st met him eariler this yr he was in perfect weight but could'nt walk at all. His owner asked me to help so found out he was feeding him 3rd cutting alfalfa and 10% sweet feed. Advised him to put him on 1st cutting timothy/grass/alfala and Safe Choice. So the owner did and the reaults were great as the sr mini can walk/run again and doing way better. Well now noticing him starting to drop weight so I dont want (cant) to change his hay but will his grain. What do you suggest? I was thinking Equine Sr.

Thanks!

 

[Jill]

In my opinion, a senior feed and alfalfa hay are both bad ideas. I'd also not have any sweet feeds or grazing going on.

I would use a low starch / low carb feed and a low starch hay.

 

[targetsmom]

I don't have any experience with Cushings but I do have an insulin resistant (IR)mare, so possibly prone to founder. I feed a grass hay (low starch if I can find it) and Blue Seal Carb Guard which is very low starch. I would avoid the sweet feed. but some Senior Feeds might be OK. Nutrena Senior is a complete feed and intermediate in starch. To put weight on you might try adding oil. I would also suggest Remission which is a Mg and Chromium supplement that is designed for founder prone horses. Is she on Pergolide for the Cushings?

Don't be afraid to contact the nutritionist in your area for the brand of grain you use. I use Nutrena feeds mostly and have gotten a lot of help from our area nutritionist. That's what they are there for.

 

[Lori W]

It's important to keep the Cushings horse's weight down (maintain a body conditioning score of 5) and keep the non-structured carbohydrates (NSC) in their food as low as possible (total dietary NSC should be 20% or less). Grains like corn and oats and, of course, grass, all have a high NSC count and should be avoided. Congratulations on the work you've done and the choices you've made for this little gelding - thank goodness you are there to help!

At 30 years old, if keeping his weight up is an issue, have his teeth checked, if you haven't already. If you're looking at Equine Senior - or any commercial feed - check the NSC percentage (if it's not online or on the label, you can call the company). Look for feed with 12% or less NSC. Beet pulp (soaked) is often a good choice for roughage, too. Corn oil is also a good way to add calories without adding NSC.

I have a half-Hafling pony with Cushings, Equine Metabolic Syndrome (abnormal fat distribution) and Insulin Resistance. We are often dealing with his chronic laminitis as well. With the help of my vet and farrier, we've been "managing" his care for the past 5 years. He's on a dry lot with 1st cutting grass hay and a scant handful of pelleted feed (similar to Safe Choice) and pergolide. He also gets a multi-vitamin plus a supplement with ingredients believed to be benefical for horses with Cushings and IR (contains magnesium and chromium) and MSM. When he has a bout of laminitis, he's on a half to whole gram of bute twice a day and stall rest (deeply bedded) if he's having trouble moving around his paddock. The vet is coming out next month to do our annual x-rays on his feet - if his coffin bone has rotated further, we'll need to make that hard choice to euthanize him. Once the coffin bone rotates to a certain point, there's no hope left. As much as I love him, it's the right thing to do to let him go.

Good luck with your friend's little gelding!

 

[mydaddysjag]

Oil for calories? beetpulp?

 

[drmatthewtaylor]

You'd like to use a feed lower in starch and higher in fat. Many Sr feeds fit that bill, but not all. You can feed straight fat in the form of corn or cocosoya oil on top of grain. Start at about 1oz twice daily and increase over time. Some will eat a lot, others almost none, so pay attention. I always encourage fat be fed in a removable plastic feeder as any small amount still left in the bowl can go rancid, especially in the summer.

Would like to hear that these Cushnoid horses are on pergolide as it is the treatment of choice and can be quite helpful.

Rotation does not always equal pain, we use x-rays to help gauge over all status not make absolute decisions.

Dr Taylor

 

[Ashley]

You can get low carb feeds that are safe for them. The problem is he is old which makes keeping weight on hard, and founder is a common thing with a cushings horse. Is he loosing fat or muscle? Cushings will also eventually eat away the body of the horse, fat and muscle, make them loose their mind and unfixable founder.

 

[copperwood farm]

I thought the safe choice was a low carb feed???

 

[Magic]

Soaked beet pulp is helpful for putting weight on, and with an older horse like he is, sometimes soaking ALL of their feed is the way to go, depending on what their teeth are like (if they still have them!)

It's very good of you to help his owners out as you are.

 

[Kim~Crayonboxminiatures]

I would feed grass or timothy hay, soaked shredded beet pulp (without molasses), vit/mineral supplement or low NSC feed (I use Triple Crown 30% Supplement), & Ground flax seed. The ground flax adds fat and also provides the omega's the horse isn't getting from fresh grass.

 

[Charlotte]

If you haven't tried Triple Crown Safe Starch FORAGE I would suggest trying that. The horse needs nothing else. this is a chopped, low NSC, forage with the vitamins/minerals recommended for the situation you describe.

Since it is hay it satisfies the horse's needs for long fiber. With the horse I have that is getting this I feed more if she needs weight gain and less if she needs to lose a bit...it's mostly weather related.

IF it works for your guy it makes life very simple.

good luck with him,

Charlotte

 

[MindyLee]

Thanks for the info.

The only place I can get feed at is where I work (TSC) so my choices are Purina, Nutrina, StandLee, & P. Pride.

The little guy has most of his teeth (THANKFULLY!) and I trim his feet on a reagular basis as Im his farrier as well as his babysitter till April. BUT what I did notice is that his over all body weight was awesome. Not over fat and not skinny, just perfect in weight. But was so sore on his feet he could hardly walk. Now that he's been on his new feeding program for a few months, he was still looking good and could walk/run again. His feet are in way better shape and are kept up with every 30 days now and even just trimmed him today and made a break through with finally removing some dead hoof that at one time was very pink and sore. BUT now that he's been with me, He still is looking good with weight on his topline but can see ribs even through his thick winter/cushing coat. I can feel them but not bad. What I want is to not be able to see them ribs like I did'nt before but still be able to keep him foundering severly again.

I like the Safe Choice as I think it was a great choice to go. I did also get a new bag of Purina Mini feed in for my horses, maybe look into seeing if that might be a good one for him also...

THANKS!

 

[LAZY J MINIS]

I have a mare w/founder and she had a episode in dec. my vet had us put her on whole oats,dry lot and I added remission. The farrier trimed last month and she is not showing any signs what so ever. She even plays w/weanlings like a kid her self. My vet is who gave her to me and he is impressed with how she is now. cushings I don't know, and hope I never have to find out.

 

[Becky]

Standlee hay products are the best and I highly recommend them for IR horses and others. Low NSC and quality.

Nutrena Safe Choice is high NSC contrary to it's name. Not what I would feed to a laminitic horse.

 

[chandab]

Standlee hay products are the best and I highly recommend them for IR horses and others. Low NSC and quality.

Nutrena Safe Choice is high NSC contrary to it's name. Not what I would feed to a laminitic horse.

I love the Standlee products, and so do the horses. I've tried both timothy grass pellets and orchardgrass pellets and love them; alfalfa/timothy cubes (a bit hard, so have to be soaked); shredded beet pulp (great dry, but smell a bit funky to me when soaked, the horses love it); beet pulp pellets (very nice, soak up great); and, alfalfa pellets very nice. [They have other products, but these are the only ones I've actually tried.]

Most of my horses didn't like Safe Choice the one time I tried it, I had a coupon.

 

[Becky]

Same here on the Standlee hay products, Chanda. I love them and so do the horses! I've used the Timothy and Orchard grass pellets. Both are good for IR horses. I use the Timothy/alfalfa cubes for my show horses and others. Most of the time, they break apart easily. But, my show horses get their soaked, so it's not an issue anyway. The Standlee shredded beet pulp is a little dark and different than the other beet pulp I use, so far, it's the only product that I'm not entirely thrilled with. I've also used their compressed alfalfa bales. Nice hay!

 

[lucky seven]

I had a riding horse that foundered and also had cushings. The vet suggested purina well/solve weight control grain. She was very obese and this grain helped.

 

[chandab]

Same here on the Standlee hay products, Chanda. I love them and so do the horses! I've used the Timothy and Orchard grass pellets. Both are good for IR horses. I use the Timothy/alfalfa cubes for my show horses and others. Most of the time, they break apart easily. But, my show horses get their soaked, so it's not an issue anyway. The Standlee shredded beet pulp is a little dark and different than the other beet pulp I use, so far, it's the only product that I'm not entirely thrilled with. I've also used their compressed alfalfa bales. Nice hay!

For soaking, I really like the beet pulp pellets I special order from a local co-op; but the Standlee shreds are nice for feeding dry and everyone likes them just fine (well my older stallion doesn't like the big chunks, but otherwise eats it fine).