SHETLAND PONIES LOOKING MORE LIKE MINIATURE HORSES

[Celeste]

I was always under the impression that shetland ponies had a certain look about them, that they had

short legs with a stout body but the ones I have seen in the thread about shetland ponies look more

like miniature horses - they look absolutely stunning but thereby lies my confusion.

Can anybody please enlighten me?

 

[Leeana]

There is a huge difference between ISLAND shetlands and our AMERICAN shetlands. What you described sounds more like the picture of the island shetlands.

The american shetlands are split into three divisions the Foundation, Classic and Moderns.

The shetlands are very refined, animated ponies (i think even the classics and foundations have more animated movement then other pony breeds, even without hackney background). They are not short fat ponies

. Even though the shetland breed is easily the most popular pony breed in America, it is soo misunderstood and very few people know what an actual shetland looks like. Extremely refined beautiful ponies.

The ponies (classic/founday type, there have been a few moderns that have made AMHR height, I believe Michigans Hart Breaker made amhr height? Correct me if i am wrong) are now (actually have been for a while, look at the seth thomas, arenosa horses ext) making miniature height and being hardshipped into AMHR, even AMHA in some cases and being bred as 'miniature shetlands'. Most are horses from the arenosa line that naturally carry the two (amhr/aspc) registrys and some are even triple registered (amha/amhr/aspc), so its not just hardshipping the tiny shetlands ...for most its in their pedigree. They IMO dominate the over division in the amhr ring today. My friend, who i purchased Narko from, showed an over division yearling filly that placed above the amhr/aspc horses at Nationals in 06' (i believe she went national champion) and she put an add in the journal joking, 'National Champion ..and she isnt even a shetland' LOL.

Also, they are measured differently. The shetlands are measured at the withers while the minis are meaured at the last hairs of the mane. For instance, the horse in my Avatar is a ASPC Foundation shetland and he measures 39'' as a pony and as a minature he measures 37.50'' so he is a 'Miniature Shetland', but he is not amhr registered bc i want him on my shetland show string.

 

[Dona]

Celeste....you are remembering the same Shetland Ponies that I grew up with many years ago.

: They are NOT the same "Modern" Shetlands of today. When I was a kid, I had a neighbor who raised registered Shetland ponies. He had probably over a hundred of them...and they were short & stocky, definitely NOT the taller, refined Shetlands you see in the show ring today! The older style Shetlands were crossed with Hackneys to make them more refined. They are definitely stunning...much taller, refined with a lot of action (this comes from the Hackneys) But with all this..they also got the Hackney heads, which I personally do not like. :no:

I'll stay with my "little" Miniatures, who remind me of the Shetlands I had growing up.

:

 

[kaykay]

Keep in mind that Foundation Shetlands cannot have an outcross I believe for 5 generations. This was done to keep the foundation type which is closer to what you guys remember. What confuses people is many classic shetlands also have the foundation seal.

Dona take a look at some classics and foundations. No hackney heads there!! For example here are some of my foundation/classic pony heads

Star

Jet has such a tiny head he is aspc only

/www.baxterspaintedpasture.com/sitebuilder/images/notice-303x287.jpg

Tease

 

[disneyhorse]

AMERICAN shetlands have always been bred to exhibit more motion and a fancier type than their imported ancestors. Eventually breeders crossed Hackney and Welsh into the lines to make them even more extreme.

Here is a pony I just sold, he is a 34" Foundation Shetland (also registered as a mini) He is VERY tiny for a registered Shetland but you can see he is not "fat and stocky" by any means:

And then there is the MODERN American Shetland, these guys have hackney ponies on their pedigree a little ways back.

This is my senior mare:

This is my weanling colt:

My new yearling mare:

So you can see, registered Shetland ponies here in the US are what the American Miniature Horse is striving towards! I'd say in general, the miniature horse is more stocky and fat looking than the shetland pony, although the mini horse type is quickly changing that as the quality improves by leaps and bounds. Miniature horse people are "rediscovering" the shetland pony... where the mini came from in the first place!!!

Andrea

 

[ClickMini]

I only have one full Shetland, she is a Classic and I received a letter that she is eligible for Foundation Seal, which I did not do yet as I didn't know how important it is. If she is still eligible (I don't see why she wouldn't be) when I bring her permanent, I will get the seal. She is far from short and fat. LOL! If she doesn't grow much more, I believe she will also be eligible for hardship into AMHA.

There is another pic of her in my avatar.

 

[SweetOpal]

I think that the topic should be reversed, to say Miniature horses looking more like shetland ponies :aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033: just my opinion

:

 

[kaykay]

I almost said the same thing jennifer! LOL

 

[Leeana]

kaykay Posted Today, 02:34 PM I almost said the same thing jennifer! LOL

SweetOpal Posted Today, 01:47 PM

I think that the topic should be reversed, to say Miniature horses looking more like shetland ponies just my opinion

I was thinking the same thing when i first read the post title

 

[Celeste]

Well, in my opinion, and bear in mind that the world of horses is an entirely new one to me, I would have to say that the shetlands of today should be renamed as they don't look like the original shetland; they look more like a miniature horse. Why outcross a shetland with hackney horses in order to refine them and yet still call them a shetland pony?

:

The same applies to the world of dogs, when rough collies were miniaturised they didn't continue to call the smaller version by the name of "miniature rough collies" but instead aptly named them "shetland sheepdogs."

:

 

[babygoose]

Well, in my opinion, and bear in mind that the world of horses is an entirely new one to me, I would have to say that the shetlands of today should be renamed as they don't look like the original shetland; they look more like a miniature horse. Why outcross a shetland with hackney horses in order to refine them and yet still call them a shetland pony?

:

The same applies to the world of dogs, when rough collies were miniaturised they didn't continue to call the smaller version by the name of "miniature rough collies" but instead aptly named them "shetland sheepdogs."

:

I agree. I watched the shetland pony show on RFD last week and the ponies look like hackneys, small saddlebreds maybe, nothing like the original shetland island ponies. I personally don't care for the high stepping gait that the modern shetland has. I am not at all familiar with how they are shown but it looks like their feet are long and possibly weighted. Their gaits looked un-natural to me, they were TOO animated. But to each their own.

I like the stubby little island shetlands. I can't be the only one that doesn't think that every horse has to be tall, leggy and animated? Why can't we have the old island shetlands and the more modern type. I also hate the thought of all minis becoming even smaller hackney types.

 

[Leeana]

I agree. I watched the shetland pony show on RFD last week and the ponies look like hackneys, small saddlebreds maybe, nothing like the original shetland island ponies. I personally don't care for the high stepping gait that the modern shetland has. I am not at all familiar with how they are shown but it looks like their feet are long and possibly weighted. Their gaits looked un-natural to me, they were TOO animated. But to each their own.
I like the stubby little island shetlands. I can't be the only one that doesn't think that every horse has to be tall, leggy and animated? Why can't we have the old island shetlands and the more modern type. I also hate the thought of all minis becoming even smaller hackney types.

I dont think there is such a thing as too much animation ..its just one of the things i love about the breed, even the classics have a little extra animation, no such thing in my book. There is NO reason you cant have the island type shetland, but for those of us who love and enjoy the shetland breed because of how it has evolved i have to take a little affense to your words.

Just a thought, how many actual island shetland ponies do you think are in America? I really dought there are very many at all, prob be lucky if we have 50 of them in america. Even if you are just talking about the type of grade small short stocky ponies here in the states, i do not think many of those are actual island shetlands. If im wrong, please correct me but that is just my honest opinion.

I have a local friend who breeds Dartmoor ponies and imports all her stock, i wish i could get her to come on here as she also knows a great deal about Island shetlands and is in the process of importing one, i cannot wait until she gets here to go over and see her! She shows rare breed shows and CDE's, i cannot wait to see her next season!

 

[Leeana]

Why outcross a shetland with hackney horses in order to refine them and yet still call them a shetland pony?

Then why hardship a shetland into AMHR and call it a miniature when its a shetland??? Same scenario right ? I really think you are getting this backwards. The miniature horses are starting to take on the shetland pony appeal. The miniatures are the result of the shetland pony.

Also they did change the name from the original shetlands, they are registered as American Shetlands which is a completely different breed from the island bred shetlands oversea's and the grade shetlands you can find here in the states.

I hope other can answer your other questions.

 

[outlawridge]

Just reading through these posts brought two things to mind. And this is just my own personal opinions and preferences. I love the old stocky Shetland ponies of my youth and in old paintings, and I miss seeing them. They were fun, robust, smart, and spunky little mounts. I learned to ride on just such a pony. I also enjoy seeing a beautiful, refined American Shetland. However, I don't think refinement is necessarily improvement, but rather see it as breeding horses for what is acceptable in the show ring, and peoples minds, of the times. There is nothing wrong with short and stocky if that is what the breed had been. But as was pointed out, they really are two different breeds.

Secondly, and this has always bothered me, whether it be dogs, cats, cows, horse, or whatever....How can we call a specific breed "pure" or by their breed name, when they have been crossed with other breeds? Doesn't this make them mixed breeds?? I realize that many of our breeds came about this way in the first place, but when this is done in the past several generations (which really isn't much time in the grand scheme of things) how can they be considered pure? I realize that there may be a limited gene pool or a need to improve (not just for type, but to actually improve a health concern etc) but that does not address the mixing of breeds issue to me. No insults intended, just something I can't quite understand.

 

[babygoose]

I agree. I watched the shetland pony show on RFD last week and the ponies look like hackneys, small saddlebreds maybe, nothing like the original shetland island ponies. I personally don't care for the high stepping gait that the modern shetland has. I am not at all familiar with how they are shown but it looks like their feet are long and possibly weighted. Their gaits looked un-natural to me, they were TOO animated. But to each their own.
I like the stubby little island shetlands. I can't be the only one that doesn't think that every horse has to be tall, leggy and animated? Why can't we have the old island shetlands and the more modern type. I also hate the thought of all minis becoming even smaller hackney types.

I dont think there is such a thing as too much animation ..its just one of the things i love about the breed, even the classics have a little extra animation, no such thing in my book. There is NO reason you cant have the island type shetland, but for those of us who love and enjoy the shetland breed because of how it has evolved i have to take a little affense to your words.

Just a thought, how many actual island shetland ponies do you think are in America? I really dought there are very many at all, prob be lucky if we have 50 of them in america. Even if you are just talking about the type of grade small short stocky ponies here in the states, i do not think many of those are actual island shetlands. If im wrong, please correct me but that is just my honest opinion.

I have a local friend who breeds Dartmoor ponies and imports all her stock, i wish i could get her to come on here as she also knows a great deal about Island shetlands and is in the process of importing one, i cannot wait until she gets here to go over and see her! She shows rare breed shows and CDE's, i cannot wait to see her next season!

I don't mean to offend and I think you should be able to have the highly animated horses that you like. It isn't my preferance but I don't care if other people like it. I guess my point is why take any breed and then mix it with some other breed to make it more like the other breed? Why not get the other breed in the first place? Why take the stocky little island shetland and breed it to hackneys to "improve" the breed? Why not just buy a hackney? If big animated gaits are what someone wants, then why pick a breed that is totally opposite of that and then breed the gaits into it?

There aren't very many actual little stubby island shetlands in the US. I have already searched for them and if I want one I will have to import it. Again it is just a matter of preferance and what each individual likes.

 

[ownedbyapony]

The older style Shetlands were crossed with Hackneys to make them more refined. They are definitely stunning...much taller, refined with a lot of action (this comes from the Hackneys) But with all this..they also got the Hackney heads, which I personally do not like.

OK, I guess I am in one of those moods this evening, but I Have to say, the above quote just really irritates the snot out of me. After being in the hackney business for 40 years, I have about had it with the comments about the ugly "Hackney" heads. Hackneys are like any other breed, there are pretty ones and there are those that are made to wear a bridle. I have seen just about as may ugly "mini" heads in the past few years as I have ugly hacknet heads, so please in the future may we just call them ugly period.......

 

[Celeste]

Just reading through these posts brought two things to mind. And this is just my own personal opinions and preferences. I love the old stocky Shetland ponies of my youth and in old paintings, and I miss seeing them. They were fun, robust, smart, and spunky little mounts. I learned to ride on just such a pony. I also enjoy seeing a beautiful, refined American Shetland. However, I don't think refinement is necessarily improvement, but rather see it as breeding horses for what is acceptable in the show ring, and peoples minds, of the times. There is nothing wrong with short and stocky if that is what the breed had been. But as was pointed out, they really are two different breeds.

Secondly, and this has always bothered me, whether it be dogs, cats, cows, horse, or whatever....How can we call a specific breed "pure" or by their breed name, when they have been crossed with other breeds? Doesn't this make them mixed breeds?? I realize that many of our breeds came about this way in the first place, but when this is done in the past several generations (which really isn't much time in the grand scheme of things) how can they be considered pure? I realize that there may be a limited gene pool or a need to improve (not just for type, but to actually improve a health concern etc) but that does not address the mixing of breeds issue to me. No insults intended, just something I can't quite understand.

That is exactly my point. The american 'shetland' is not a true shetland. It really should be renamed. When people first started to xbreed the rough collie with other breeds in order to create what is now know as the"shetland sheepdog" they came up with the name of "miniature collie" and there was quite an uproar from the rough collie fraternity so hence the name "shetland sheepdog" originated and with good reason.

Once a shetland pony is crossed with another breed of horse, namely Hackney, it is no longer a true shetland and hence should not be regarded as one either. And even after a few generations of this american shetland breeding true it is still not a shetland and breeders should seriously think of a more appropriate name, it is presently making a mockery of the true shetland, not to mention the confusion that it creates. As majestic as the american ponies may look they are not shetlands!

I agree. I watched the shetland pony show on RFD last week and the ponies look like hackneys, small saddlebreds maybe, nothing like the original shetland island ponies. I personally don't care for the high stepping gait that the modern shetland has. I am not at all familiar with how they are shown but it looks like their feet are long and possibly weighted. Their gaits looked un-natural to me, they were TOO animated. But to each their own.
I like the stubby little island shetlands. I can't be the only one that doesn't think that every horse has to be tall, leggy and animated? Why can't we have the old island shetlands and the more modern type. I also hate the thought of all minis becoming even smaller hackney types.

I dont think there is such a thing as too much animation ..its just one of the things i love about the breed, even the classics have a little extra animation, no such thing in my book. There is NO reason you cant have the island type shetland, but for those of us who love and enjoy the shetland breed because of how it has evolved i have to take a little affense to your words.

Just a thought, how many actual island shetland ponies do you think are in America? I really dought there are very many at all, prob be lucky if we have 50 of them in america. Even if you are just talking about the type of grade small short stocky ponies here in the states, i do not think many of those are actual island shetlands. If im wrong, please correct me but that is just my honest opinion.

I have a local friend who breeds Dartmoor ponies and imports all her stock, i wish i could get her to come on here as she also knows a great deal about Island shetlands and is in the process of importing one, i cannot wait until she gets here to go over and see her! She shows rare breed shows and CDE's, i cannot wait to see her next season!

I don't mean to offend and I think you should be able to have the highly animated horses that you like. It isn't my preferance but I don't care if other people like it. I guess my point is why take any breed and then mix it with some other breed to make it more like the other breed? Why not get the other breed in the first place? Why take the stocky little island shetland and breed it to hackneys to "improve" the breed? Why not just buy a hackney? If big animated gaits are what someone wants, then why pick a breed that is totally opposite of that and then breed the gaits into it?

There aren't very many actual little stubby island shetlands in the US. I have already searched for them and if I want one I will have to import it. Again it is just a matter of preferance and what each individual likes.

The part of your comment that I have reprinted in bold is also something I define with. It is offensive that breeders take one breed of horse, cross it with another and then have the cheek to say that this is done to

"improve" the breed! Every horse or pony has its purpose and fair share of admirers and to want to change its qualities is not necessarily done with the intentions of "improving" the original breed but instead to create another one. Most so-called american shetlands look like small horses, they have no semblance of a shetland so hence should be renamed. I have nothing against what breeders have done to 'create' this miniature horse but calling it a shetland is too ridiculous for words.

:

Why outcross a shetland with hackney horses in order to refine them and yet still call them a shetland pony?

Then why hardship a shetland into AMHR and call it a miniature when its a shetland??? Same scenario right ? I really think you are getting this backwards. The miniature horses are starting to take on the shetland pony appeal. The miniatures are the result of the shetland pony.

Also they did change the name from the original shetlands, they are registered as American Shetlands which is a completely different breed from the island bred shetlands oversea's and the grade shetlands you can find here in the states.

I hope other can answer your other questions.

Leeana, I beg to differ. I don't see that miniature horses are starting to look even remotedly like a shetland pony. The American Shetlands look like miniature horses, in fact in some photos they look like a horse and not even a miniature.

 

[kaykay]

There is a group that was started for the island style ponies in the united states. They have a registry and shows but I cant locate the link.

Our Shetlands are called American Shetlands. I think the problem is many people automatically think of modern ponies when they hear American Shetland. If you really look at all the different divisions you will see they are quite different.

And lets not forget that Miniature Horses came from Shetland ponies

If you have gone to shows in the past 4 years (amha & amhr) you can definitely see the Shetland influence

Amber you are so right with the head comment!

 

[Dona]

Keep in mind that Foundation Shetlands cannot have an outcross I believe for 5 generations. This was done to keep the foundation type which is closer to what you guys remember. What confuses people is many classic shetlands also have the foundation seal.

Dona take a look at some classics and foundations. No hackney heads there!! For example here are some of my foundation/classic pony heads

Star

Jet has such a tiny head he is aspc only

/www.baxterspaintedpasture.com/sitebuilder/images/notice-303x287.jpg

Tease

Kay....your boy has a BEAUTIFUL head!

: I probably should have said, the "majority" of the Modern Shetlands I've seen have had the Hackney heads. I'm sure there are some out there with pretty heads like yours.

:

 

[Dona]

The older style Shetlands were crossed with Hackneys to make them more refined. They are definitely stunning...much taller, refined with a lot of action (this comes from the Hackneys) But with all this..they also got the Hackney heads, which I personally do not like.

OK, I guess I am in one of those moods this evening, but I Have to say, the above quote just really irritates the snot out of me. After being in the hackney business for 40 years, I have about had it with the comments about the ugly "Hackney" heads. Hackneys are like any other breed, there are pretty ones and there are those that are made to wear a bridle. I have seen just about as may ugly "mini" heads in the past few years as I have ugly hacknet heads, so please in the future may we just call them ugly period.......

I am sorry that my post "irritated the snot" out of you.

: But if you re-read my post....I didn't call Hackney heads "ugly". All I said was that I "personally" did not like them.

: Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I just don't care for the straight or convex profile of the Hackney head. I'm sure there are Hackney lovers who adore them.

: I also, do not understand your comment "there are pretty ones, and there are those that are made to wear a bridle". Are you saying that pretty heads can't wear bridles?

: