SHETLAND PONIES LOOKING MORE LIKE MINIATURE HORSES

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

well I am not going to claim to be a pony expert( I am for sure just learning) but the minis of a few years ago did look very much like the shetlands of a few years ago as at one point they were one and the same.

I dont think minis are striving to be like Shetlands or vice versa they are seperate breeds owned and loved by everyone for reasons not cause they are the exact same.

: Although really the classics and foundations are pretty similar IMO and I am learning there really is a pretty noticable difference in the Moderns and Modern Pleasure ponies as well and then from that you have formal pleasure, road ponies pleasure ponies.. argh enough to make your head spin

: I am still trying to figure all of that out

:

I think that everyone has different ideas of what is fancy and refined- personally coming from Warmbloods I LOVE the hackney type of heads however the ponies themselves are not for me (Moderns)

I do think that both breeds are growing and everyone can find what they like without trying to melt them both into the same versions of eachother. and yet still appreciate the beauty in all pony types and the minis

:

and I have to also add almost every breed of horse was at one point crossed with other breeds to get what you have today

 

[Leeana]

Leeana, I beg to differ. I don't see that miniature horses are starting to look even remotedly like a shetland pony. The American Shetlands look like miniature horses, in fact in some photos they look like a horse and not even a miniature.

Then please go back and look at the horses that have won at AMHR nationals the past 4 or 5 years, ESPECIALLY in the over division and this year allot more were in the under division as well (Erica has one in the under division that is aspc/amhr that i believe went Grand at Nationals). The horses that have won at Nationals ARE shetlands, and look who own/bought those shetlands ..miniature horse breeders who bought an ASPC shetland that would make miniautre horse height and hardshipped it into amhr or one that was already aspc/amhr. Its very obvious, just go look at the show results from the past few years.

If the way you are saying is correct, then the shetland breed is going 'backwards' and not 'forwards', and i dont see that happening. Have you ever seen a aspc show? The shetlands look much more different then the miniature horses you are talking of and are shown differently, much differently.

Of the two (miniatures and shetlands), the shetland is the more refined breed of the two. Miniature horses are always striving to be more refined and almos exotic, that is where the shetland blood plays in!

The American Shetlands look like miniature horses, in fact in some photos they look like a horse and not even a miniature

Isnt a minature horse a pony too? I do beleive so

.

 

[disneyhorse]

I don't see what the big deal is... when the "old pony guys" in the past showed the classic American Shetland, they showed ALL of them like the Modern Shetland, before breeding in the hackney became "en vogue" it seems. They grew the toe long and bridled them up.

Unlike the Miniature Horse, the American Shetland DOES have two different "types"... the Modern and the Classic. The Classic is shown more like the Miniature horse is... those who have shown a Miniature horse can easily set up the Classic Shetland and show it aptly. The Classic Shetland is not the "island type" because that is NOT what the ORIGINAL breeders selected when they started importing. They imported the more refined of the island ponies to START with.

Americans have a LONG history in MANY breeds for selectively breeding an imported type to improve refinement, upheadedness, and action. It is NOT isolated to just the American Shetland.

In the extreme, DRAFT horse breeding/importation...

In Belgium, there is a breed called the "Belgian Brabant" this is what it looks like:

Well, the Americans imported those horses but bred them for more of a "Show type" just like they did with the imported Shetland ponies. The Belgian in America now looks like this for the most part:

They also did it with the second most popular draft horse in America, the french Percheron. If you go to France, this is the sort of Percheron you will probably find:

And in America, this is the sought-after type:

These types also are similar in dogs. The European breed of dogs are often different in "type" than they are in America.

The Registered American Shetland is it's OWN unique breed with it's OWN unique past. No one is saying that it is better than the original island Shetlands in Europe, but it is certainly different and it was created with a different purpose (showing versus surviving).

I think the Classic American Shetland is just a beautiful animal. And the Modern American Shetland I greatly admire for it's show ring abilities. And the original island Shetlands are just adorable little ponies. But they are distinctly different horses.

Andrea

 

[Minimor]

I think there are two different meanings being given to the term "miniature horse" in this thread. The original poster said Shetlands are looking like miniature horses, as in "a full size horse in miniature" as opposed to Miniature Horse as in "AMHA/AMHR Miniature horse" as most others here have taken it. One term with two different meanings is confusing this discussion!

As I see it, there are some Miniature Horses (as in registered with the Mini registries) that look like Shetlands...as in the old island shetlands. We used to see a lot more of those a few years ago than we do now, but they are still around. There are some Miniature Horses that look very much like American Shetlands, obviously, since some are registered as both. Overall, though, IMO the American Shetlands that look most like small versions of full size horses are not those that are also registered as Miniatures. I've seen a number of photos of American Shetlands--especially harness photos--that if you see only the pony & the cart shafts (no cart or driver to give a size comparison) you could easily wonder if it is an American Shetland or a Morgan. I've yet to see a photo of a Miniature Horse that I would mistake for anything other than a Mini. The American Shetlands that are small enough to be registered as Minis aren't IMO just quite there yet when it comes to being mistaken for full size horses. Given a bit more time, yes, I think it will happen, but not just yet.

I don't personally have a problem with "Shetland" and "American Shetland" being names for two different "breeds" of pony. The American Shetland is based on the old Shetland blood, and even though the Hackney has been added in, the Shetland foundation is still there. The "American" added onto the name does signify the difference. I think some of the confusion comes in because so many people tend to drop the "American" and just refer to them as "Shetland" which does bring to mind the old island ponies we all grew up with as kids.

That's how Hackney can be added into a "purebred" breed--at its inception the American Shetland was an evolving breed--"open" to breeds other than Shetland (at least that's my understanding of the registry) After a certain point the books were closed to outside blood & now only papered American Shetlands can be used to produce American Shetlands....just the same as the Morgan breed. The Morgan breed is based on many different breeds/types of horses. Up until 1949 other breeds (such as Saddlebred) were allowed to be used for breeding. after that the book was closed, and only registered Morgans could be used for breeding. The breed is now considered "purebred" in spite of the Saddlebred blood that exists in the breed.

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

I think there are two different meanings being given to the term "miniature horse" in this thread. The original poster said Shetlands are looking like miniature horses, as in "a full size horse in miniature" as opposed to Miniature Horse as in "AMHA/AMHR Miniature horse" as most others here have taken it. One term with two different meanings is confusing this discussion!

I never even thought of it meaning that! Your right that could change everything! :bgrin

 

[babygoose]

As disneyhorse pointed out, it isn't just shetlands that are being bred to be more upheaded and high stepping. Several breeds have been "improved" that way. To me it is not an improvement. The belgian and percheron were meant to be calm quiet draft animals that look like the european pictures that disneyhorse posted. What is wrong with leaving them that way? That is what I don't understand. What is the trend in America that everything has to be upheaded and high stepping? I also notice that a lot of these more "hitchy" drafts are hot and spooky. Now why would you want 2000 lbs of hot spooky animal? I realize that this is the current trend in the show ring. At a recent driving show, all the high stepping horses won, even though they were almost out of control in the arena, reared during the backup, would not stand still in the lineup, etc. I was very disapointed to see nice forward moving, quiet, horses placed lower because they weren't high steppers. My dressage background just can't accept the checked up headsets with no rounding, flexing, relaxed, movement. Heck, even the competitive dressage is going into this whole big moving hyperflexed behind the bit fad that is depressing to me, but that is a whole different subject and OT.

 

[Minimor]

babygoose, I'd have to agree with you on the dressage aspect of your post--classical training seems to have gone by the wayside. Even if people TALK about how they do things the right thing, you generally don't see them riding/training the way they talk.

But, as someone who likes my horses to be hotter than a $2 pistol....I can't say that I fault the trend toward the more flashy, "up" horses in so many breeds. "hot" shouldn't mean nervous or spooky (though in some cases it does). "hot" should just be a flashier, more showy horse that has more fire and attitude/presence, and ideally that is combined with more action and a lot of athletic ability (not saying hot means extra athletic ability, just saying that I want the two things together!) That's what I want in a horse even if I'm not showing him, and yes, I do still expect my hot horses to be mannerly & well behaved--that is training, pure & simple. Poorly behaved horses in the show ring are generally that way because of deficient training, not because of they are hot and have a naturally animated way of going.

 

[babygoose]

babygoose, I'd have to agree with you on the dressage aspect of your post--classical training seems to have gone by the wayside. Even if people TALK about how they do things the right thing, you generally don't see them riding/training the way they talk.

But, as someone who likes my horses to be hotter than a $2 pistol....I can't say that I fault the trend toward the more flashy, "up" horses in so many breeds. "hot" shouldn't mean nervous or spooky (though in some cases it does). "hot" should just be a flashier, more showy horse that has more fire and attitude/presence, and ideally that is combined with more action and a lot of athletic ability (not saying hot means extra athletic ability, just saying that I want the two things together!) That's what I want in a horse even if I'm not showing him, and yes, I do still expect my hot horses to be mannerly & well behaved--that is training, pure & simple. Poorly behaved horses in the show ring are generally that way because of deficient training, not because of they are hot and have a naturally animated way of going.

I agree on the hot and spooky. My trainer also likes hot horses but they are all well behaved and not spooky. I think I tend to lump them because I don't like hot OR spooky! Laid back and a bit lazy suits me fine!

But you are right, hot shouldn't necessarily mean spooky. And high action doesn't necessarily mean hot. The really high action just isn't attractive to me. I seems un-natural to me, especially when they are weighted. So hopefully there will always be a choice in horses that are high stepping or not. But the trend in what is winning in shows seems to indicate that the high action is going to be more common. And I still have to stick with my idea that taking a breed, be it shetland or belgian, and breeding high action into it makes no sense. And people will always disagree whether that is an "improvement" to the breed or not. Obviously I will say no.

:

 

[kaykay]

But again why is it people always point out the Modern Shetland? It seems like that is all they think about when you say American Shetland. I pictured many of my shetlands on this thread. none have been weighted, banded etc.

Like I said earlier take a look at the modern pleasure, foundation and classic ponies. They are much different then a modern!

 

[babygoose]

But again why is it people always point out the Modern Shetland? It seems like that is all they think about when you say American Shetland. I pictured many of my shetlands on this thread. none have been weighted, banded etc.

Like I said earlier take a look at the modern pleasure, foundation and classic ponies. They are much different then a modern!

I noticed during the RFD shetland show that there was a little diference between the moderns, foundation, and classic. Mostly that the foundations and classics had a little less high stepping movement. Your ponies are beautiful, but this is the kind of shetland I like and what I am looking for. If anybody knows of anyone breeding this kind of shetland in the US please let me know!

http://www.coppiceshetlands.co.uk/geldings.htm

And these!!

http://www.kellas-stud.co.uk/ponynews.htm

 

[disneyhorse]

Hmmmm I don't think the Foundation and the Modern ponies look or are shown anything like each other! They are much different in type. The American Shetland should generally be a SIMILAR pony within the types, as they are not the imported type of the links you have shown, they are a much different breed.

Andrea

 

[outlawridge]

I noticed during the RFD shetland show that there was a little diference between the moderns, foundation, and classic. Mostly that the foundations and classics had a little less high stepping movement. Your ponies are beautiful, but this is the kind of shetland I like and what I am looking for. If anybody knows of anyone breeding this kind of shetland in the US please let me know!

http://www.coppiceshetlands.co.uk/geldings.htm

And these!!

http://www.kellas-stud.co.uk/ponynews.htm

Thank you for posting these links! I sure enjoyed the photos. When you wrote "this is the kind of shetland I like and am looking for" you meant the ones in the links, not the shetland show, correct?? There is a local woman that has two UK Shetlands and I will ask if she is breeding and also where she obtained hers. Will let you know what I find out.

 

[Celeste]

But again why is it people always point out the Modern Shetland? It seems like that is all they think about when you say American Shetland. I pictured many of my shetlands on this thread. none have been weighted, banded etc.

Like I said earlier take a look at the modern pleasure, foundation and classic ponies. They are much different then a modern!

I noticed during the RFD shetland show that there was a little diference between the moderns, foundation, and classic. Mostly that the foundations and classics had a little less high stepping movement. Your ponies are beautiful, but this is the kind of shetland I like and what I am looking for. If anybody knows of anyone breeding this kind of shetland in the US please let me know!

http://www.coppiceshetlands.co.uk/geldings.htm

And these!!

http://www.kellas-stud.co.uk/ponynews.htm

Hi BG...I was wondering if this pony appeals to you? is this the look you are hoping to find?

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a221/Sar...argeWebview.jpg

 

[kaykay]

There is a huge difference in the different types. Really to see it I think you need to go to a show in person or visit a farm that breeds the different types.

I finally found the web addy for the group that does the island shetlands island shetlands

 

[babygoose]

I noticed during the RFD shetland show that there was a little diference between the moderns, foundation, and classic. Mostly that the foundations and classics had a little less high stepping movement. Your ponies are beautiful, but this is the kind of shetland I like and what I am looking for. If anybody knows of anyone breeding this kind of shetland in the US please let me know!

http://www.coppiceshetlands.co.uk/geldings.htm

And these!!

http://www.kellas-stud.co.uk/ponynews.htm

Thank you for posting these links! I sure enjoyed the photos. When you wrote "this is the kind of shetland I like and am looking for" you meant the ones in the links, not the shetland show, correct?? There is a local woman that has two UK Shetlands and I will ask if she is breeding and also where she obtained hers. Will let you know what I find out.

Yes, the ones in the links I posted are what I am looking for. Basically a Thelwell.

I honestly hope I don't offend anybody with the whole American Shetland vs Thelwell type shetland. I don't think I have ever seen a horse that I would consider ugly and the American Shetlands are beautiful. It is just the high stepping gait that I have never cared much for. And the classics and foundations are closer to what I am looking for. But for some reason the little Thelwell look just grabs me.

Celeste, the picture you linked to looks more like what I am looking for. Hard to tell for sure from one picture. Cute little guy though.

 

[maplegum]

I was also very confused when I discovered the American Shetlands! They look nothing like the shetland ponies I have known all my life!! Growing up here in Australia, all kids grew up riding shetland ponies. Short, fat and fluffy.

:

I do love both of them, but I wish they didn't use the same name!

 

[Leeana]

I was also very confused when I discovered the American Shetlands! They look nothing like the shetland ponies I have known all my life!! Growing up here in Australia, all kids grew up riding shetland ponies. Short, fat and fluffy.

:

I do love both of them, but I wish they didn't use the same name!

When i refere to my shetlands i always call them American Shetlands, that is the there name American Shetlands. The Island shetlands are called Island shetlands. They all have different names.

American Shetlands = Taller more refined American Breed

Island Shetland = Shorter stockier Island breed.

Then we also have many grade shetlands here in the united states and i think that is where all this mishap comes from. Everyone had a 'shetland pony' growing up they rode around and was short and fat, i think that is where all the mishap comes from. All this misunderstanding and (im sorry) wrong information started when we were children and our parents told us 'this is what a shetland pony is'. It seems to me anything that is short and fat is considered a shetland pony to most people and that just isnt right lol.

Im no expert, two years in the shetlands isnt much but i am very passionate about the breed.