NO WORLD SHOW FOR PUCK

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LaVern

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I don't know if I did the right thing or not. We had planned on talking Puck to the World Show. He had qualified and had measured 33 1/4 inches at the AMHA show where he took the Supremes in halter and driving.

He has never even come close to 34 when being measured at a show, usually it is 33 1/4 to 33 1/2

I have had him measured by all of my friends and a carpenter and nobody has gotten him over 34, but he is close. He MEASURED 32 1/2 At Nationals this year.

So, anyway ten minutes before I was to leave for Texas we got the call about how tuff they were being. I had no idea how they were going to measure and lets face it AMHR lets them stand a bit differently.

Now, I would not care if Puck was a B stallion. I used a B stud on almost all of my AMHA mares this year, but to haul him down there in that heat and for him to have to stand in his stall with his new harness. I don't know if I could have stood that. I just wanted to compete with horses of more his type. And see if he could cut it.

I just wish that we had a more uniform way of measuring in the two associations. The discrepancy is crazy. Lets face it alot of the value on these horse is that they are double registered and if they measure so differently it makes it hard for the average guy to even know how tall their horse is.

It was my call and I just don't know if I did the right thing.

I do have to take my hats off to those at the World Show that had the guts to protest what they thought was wrong. If we don't stand up to what we feel is wrong we are just as guilty as the guy that is trying to cheat.
 
The way he has been measured in the past should of been fine being under 34"

I have a gelding that has been measured over and over again and registered 33.50 and never changes...

But you know best. :bgrin

Just my opinion but if you square your horses up & stop stretching these horses and trim their last hairs correct. Should not change in measuring ever.

Over is Over. That is why we have A & B horses.
 
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What a shame that you didnt get to show your horse. I really feel for you! I dont understand though why you would be so worried if he measures 33 1/4. Thats quite a bit of room to play with before you would go over 34. I wouldnt think they would delibertly measure a horse bigger then it is?? Usually the problem is measuring them smaller. I guess Im confused.

Doesnt AMHA video tape all measuring? Or at least I thought they did?

Measuring is an issue with both registries and it really needs to be addressed by both AMHA & AMHR.
 
I have had him measured by all of my friends and a carpenter .
I am sorry you didnt show and not to make light of it but really I am not sure why but the carpenter thing just struck me as so funny I realize what you were trying to say someone used to working with levels and such just struck me funny :)
 
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Well, I know that if I measure a horse and get him to be within the size limit, I know I'm pretty safe in taking him to a show. I stand them square, use the honest last mane hair, don't press down on the back, and my measurements are always bigger than what anyone else gets. I figure that if they fit into the size for me, they'll fit in for anyone.

I'd think that the only way anyone needs to worry is if they normally stretch the horse, press down, and have the clip job fixed so that the mane hair ends in the lowest part of the back and still have to struggle to make the horse make 34" at the very most. If I measured a horse at 33 1/2" he'd probably make 33" easily at a show--any show--even where the measurement official was being 100% strict on measurement requirements.
 
Hey Lisa, If you knew our carpenter you would even think it funnier. Relative of a relative. He's always going to be back next week.
 
I feel for you and everyone else who was involved! It is an awful long way to go and a lot to put Puck through and then not be sure if it would even work out in the end. Like my mom said earlier today, we know how good Puckers is!!!! (We just wanted everyone else to see it too!) :bgrin
 
That is too bad, your Puck is a beautiful horse and I bet he would have measured in fine. I think they do have a square drawn on the floor and your horse can't stand stretched similarily to the shetlands. Your horse stands in the square and you are not allowed to touch them. They do video tape it all from what I understand. Sounds to me like if he measured in at a local A show he would have been fine at Nationals. Especially since he measured under 34" quite a bit. I think also you can do two measurements and then refuse to do the third if you so desire then to pull the horse from the show. Sorry, I bet you are disappointed but then there is next year! Lavonne
 
You knew what was best
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: I see the problem with meauring is it isn't always done as the rulebook says. Foursquare is foursquare and yet many people are getting away with stretching their horse at R shows. You do have a pretty boy and it would have been interesting to see how he would have done with his type. mary
 
Yes, There is always next year and Puck is so young and has already acomplished so much. Perhaps it was meant to be, this way. To ask him to make the trip south two times in one month is too much. Next year he will be out driving again and at least 5 of his offspring will be out showing halter with him. My goal is to watch him compete in driving with his sons and daughters in 2010 Enough already. Thanks for giving me a sounding board. Renee
 
Oh Renee,,,,

I am sorry. There is always next year. I would be in your shoes too. I have a stallion that measures from 33 1/2" to 34"s depending on the day and who is measuring. But I would have had that same stress. Bummer.
 
What a disappointment for you(and what a sad statement on the ever-increasing problems of measurement in BOTH the miniature registries!!)

I was not at ALL suprised by what is related to have happened at Worlds this year; it has been happening in increasingly serious form for several years. I am sorry that you missed the show(though I certainly can understand your reasoning!)--it is very likely you would have had no worries; in my opinion, AND my personal observation and experience,it has (increasingly, IMO) become the 'standard' to measure SHORT-er, not tall-er. Anyone who has made a SERIOUS effort to ACCURATELY measure their horse(s)-and as Minimor said, it does take a serious and dedicated effort, make no mistake--but it is ENTIRELY possible to do it ACCORDING TO the applicable rulebook-should be able to be comfortable with what they get,and what their horse will measure, when it is honestly and correctly done. Surely sounds as if you made that effort...

I have two AMHA Champion geldings-they are the ones I've shown the most---in '91, I took the first one to AMHA Nationals in OK City. I have ALWAYS made correct measurement a top priority, and had measured this horse EVERY time, as an adult(he was 5 in '91), at 33 3/4"; had been told by friends who'd been to several previous Nationals how 'tough'(meaning, accurate!) the measurement was--and I 'sweated' it a bit..but, I just made sure his feet were PROPERLY trimmed(NEVER too short, NEVER SORE--UH, Uhh, would NOT do that!)a few days before leaving, and off I went. They WERE tough, they WERE ACCURATE--and my horse measured 33 3/4"-just as I knew he MUST, if they were doing their job! There was NO stretching, NO heads held up in the air(I actually observed, a number of times, in more recent years, people not only stretching horses, but literally placing horses' chins on their shoulders so the horse's muzzle was pointed straight UP in the air, before the 'no touching, stand square' rule went into effect!)--these kinds of things came to gradually 'slip in' more and more as the years passed. When last I took horses to compete at AMHA Nationals, in '02, my two horses both measured 3/4' shorter that I had EVER measured them, and by the next year, when a friend shopped for a horse there(we were both there sans horses), her definitely 34" horse had been 'officially' measured there at 32 3/4"-1 1/4" short! (When looking at him, I INSISTED we measure him ourselves; she actually purchased an 'official' Sligo Stick to do so-and NOT count on the posted 'official' measurement. As a trained artist, I have a VERY good eye for dimension, and was SURE the horse was the same, or virtually the same,height as MY genuinely 34" horse(my other AMHA Champion, BTW.)I told her I would wrestle her to the ground and pin her to prevent her from purchasing that horse if I could not measure him at 34" or under---and I meant it! We took him to several different spots where I could determine a level surface for the measurement(luckily, we were in my truck, and I always carry an older, wooden measuring stick which has a bubble on the cross arm, so can also be used REASONABLY well to determine the 'levelness' of the measuring surface,as we did not have access to the'official' measuring spot)--he came in at 34", 34 1/4" and 33 3/4+".She bought him--he is not a hair under, but he does fairly measure a true 34".

It is not really the fault of the measurers, IMO--they are,for the most part, only acting as I am sure has been made clear to them. This is true of any level of show nowadays; at many if not most, it has become more prudent to 'go with the flow'--if you believe the old saying that "HE*L hath no fury like a woman scorned"--well, you ought to see the FURY of many--often, 'name' trainers and 'name' owners--should they be told their horse measures out....most measurers(at local levels, at least) don't feel it is part of their job to take the abuse and nastiness--especially when it is the 'unspoken' but clear policy of the national organizations to 'measure them in, not measure them out'-to paraphrase-so they may well not feel that they would have support in that direction.Yes, there ARE some tough measurers(often heard from when this subject arises--and they have my admiration, but I think they are in the minority, these days.) Yes, horses DO get measured out at Nationals/Worlds-but look around, and you will find that it is almost ALWAYS either 'newbies' or 'no-name' owners to whom that happens...that is another personal observation I made at the most recent AMHA Nationals(now World)I attended. That year, accompanying my friend in her horse-shopping, we saw at least a couple of horses, belonging to (dare I say, naive and trusting newcomers?) that had measured out-even with the blue measurement 'mark' still on one of them--and that mark was well down the back BEHIND the 'last hair of the mane'! As taller horses began to be showing, the complaint was that it was the 'names' who got overly-tall horses measured in; then, it seemed to subtly change so that about EVERYONE got, shall we say, a 'break'?! (Clever, really--to deflect the criticisms and unrest--who complains when EVERY ENTRY measures 'short'?? Even if one did, it would not change the way the next one was measured, would it? )

Almost WORST of all is when there are situations such as the reported tension and 'upset'--and the measurement then is 'tightened up'(to where it SHOULD HAVE BEEN all along)--any teacher can tell you that it is much better to START OUT with firm rules, AND follow them--then to be lax, and THEN try to 'return' to adherance to rules, esp. those that have been there, and been clear, all along....in these times especially, people quickly feel totally ENTITLED to do whatever THEY want, when they have been allowed to do so, in spite of applicable rules(why do you think there are so many horrid, inconsiderate, aggressive drivers on our roads???) ENTITLEMENT. Today, people can, and often, do-- get MIGHTY ugly when someone tries to take away their 'privileges'-and it makes matters worse all around. And when the final result is that the 'measured-out' horses are miraculously 'back in'??? That is the supreme INSULT to honest exhibitors and members, to my thinking.

Oh, yes--the measurement is videotaped at AMHA World--I have seen how, and consider it basically ineffective in determining the accuracy of the measurments. Now, if they had multiple automated cameras-probably most importantly, one directly overhead with a sharp 'zoom' so that the camera would see what the measurer sees, and exactly where and how the measurer places the stick and tightens the set screw, and can show the bubble- and one that would show the full side view of all legs to the floor, the lead, and the base of the stick....well, then, MAYBE it would be useful?

I admit I am hardnosed about measuring--yet, recognizing the somewhat subjective nature(it CAN be VERY subjective, but carefully done, need be only very 'mildly' so)--I would even support a 'leeway' of up to 1/2")-- NEVER more. What gets me is how the verbiage is so definite(in the AMHA Rulebook, there are MANY statements to the effect that a horse cannot, and MUST not, be over 34")-yet there is the seemingly 'sanctioned' hypocrisy that occurs in practice. I like to think that someday, enough people will have had ENOUGH, and then the st*t will finally 'hit the fan', bigtime and not just in a 'spasm'--and maybe THEN changes will genuinely be made, and SUPPORTED, from the top--which is where it really has to originate, IMO.

Feel free to 'fire away-I've said it before--my ole hide is tough--and I sleep well at night(well, most nights-after all, I AM getting old-er!) I seldom if ever show breed any more-but I continue to take an active interest in what goes on, because I am a believer in honest competition.

Margo
 
I would have went since he measured in fine at the R show. Unless his feet hadn't been clipped for a while or he was on a growth spurt why would he be more than 1/2 inch taller? Usually at shows my horse is measured shorter than taller than he is. I'm sorry you didn't go. You might have had a chance at winning something.
 
After finding out that some of the horses that we showed against at Nationals measured okay, I know that Puck would have been fine. But, it's not the end of the world. There is always another horse show. Congrats. to all the winners. :aktion033:
 
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