HORSE LOVERS, PLEASE READ THIS!!!!!!!!!!!

[IloveMiniatureshorses]

Hello All horse lovers,

this does not have to do with miniatures, but it does have to do with horses. The BLM (who have I never liked or supported in any way) has done and started a roundup called the Pryor Roundup, which involves the famous Stallion, Cloud, and his small herd. I recieved an e-mail from Breyer Animal Creations that stated this:

Despite the efforts of The Cloud Foundation and many wild horse advocates, the BLM round-up of Cloud's herd has begun in Lovell, Wyoming. Legal efforts are continuing, but have so far not stopped this action. A Temporary Restraining Order request by The Cloud Foundation and Front Range Equine Rescue was denied in Federal District Court on September 2. The BLM has commenced the round-up - expected to take 4-10 days - which is being done by driving the herd into pens via helicopters. The Today Show's Kerry Sanders filed a report which aired on this morning's show. To watch, please click on the link below: http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/32688728#32688728

This sad news comes just two months before the third installation of Ginger's series is set to air on PBS. Cloud: Challenge of the Stallions, part of PBS' NATURE Series, is slated to air on October 25. By the time the show airs, at least 70 horses - possibly including Cloud and his band - will have been removed from rangelands that have supported them for more than 200 years. We have added our voice to those who do not support this round-up. If you would like to learn more and learn how you can help, please visit: http://www.thecloudfoundation.org Thank you. Sincerely, The Breyer Web Team

Breyer Animal Creations Photos courtesy of Ginger Kathrens and The Cloud Foundation. Used with permission.

I think this is horrible. I mean, the BLM probably has good intentions, but they are dumb. There are already thousands of wild horses for adoption that are NOT GETTING ADOPTED!!!! The BLM wants to put 70 horses up for adoption. The horse market is already flooded with horses for sale (some people may disagree with me on this, but in reality, it is true) and the BLM wants to add 70 more to that amount?!? I would just let nature take it's course. I mean, how are they harming the ecosystem?? If you actually think about it, they are HELPING the ecosystem. Just think; they are spending more tax money on feeding the horses corraled up and on birth control shots. Please view both the video and the website and then you will have a better understanding of what is going on.

Please do something; or at least attempt to...

I dunno about any of you, but...

I am sorry if I keep rambling on too much. But I do not think it is right. I think the BLM has been extremely "shady" on their last few roundup decisions.

I have e-mailed the President, Congress, and the BLM....

If you disagree with me, state why you do instead of just putting "I don't agree with you on this".

Thanks for letting me say what I had to say.

 

[Miniv]

I went in and watched the newsclip and heard what the local Indian representatives had to say.

As harsh as what was said.......basically, "Let nature take its course"....this winter.....I agree with them. Allow Mother Nature to do the population control through Survival of the Fittest. She will do a much better job than we humans and the stupid government.

We humans are the primary reason for the modern screw up in the natural cycle of life to begin with.......

 

[disneyhorse]

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[IloveMiniatureshorses]

...

sorry if what I said sounded bad....

 

[Sue_C.]

As harsh as what was said.......basically, "Let nature take its course"....this winter.....I agree with them. Allow Mother Nature to do the population control through Survival of the Fittest. She will do a much better job than we humans and the stupid government.

I would far sooner have them shot, than have to think of them suffering a long hard death by cold and starvation.

 

[IloveMiniatureshorses]

As harsh as what was said.......basically, "Let nature take its course"....this winter.....I agree with them. Allow Mother Nature to do the population control through Survival of the Fittest. She will do a much better job than we humans and the stupid government.

I would far sooner have them shot, than have to think of them suffering a long hard death by cold and starvation.

Yeah, but that is nature, whether anyone likes it or not. Many animal populations go through this though, it is not just wild horses either.

 

[~Dan]

I believe I read somewhere, now that horse slaughter in the US is banned, these mustangs are that are not adopted,are left for nothing, and not turned back out on the range and now with the economy down and all, people aren't wanting to adopt any horses. now don't quote me, I'm not sure.

I agree, let nature take its course, its what natural for them, it keeps the ecosystem going, its the fact of life, young foals and older horses die, sick or injured horses die of natural causes, and that's the way its happened for hundreds of years, and if things continue without BLM intervention, then it will for another couple hundred years, which is the way mother nature intended.

 

[KanoasDestiny]

I agree, let nature take its course, its what natural for them, it keeps the ecosystem going, its the fact of life, young foals and older horses die, sick or injured horses die of natural causes, and that's the way its happened for hundreds of years, and if things continue without BLM intervention, then it will for another couple hundred years, which is the way mother nature intended.

I agree with this...while I hate seeing horses suffer at the hands of their owners, mustangs have ran wild in America for hundreds of years. If there isn't enough food for cattle and the horses, then the BLM should step in and set up protection laws like they do for other "endangered" species. I don't see the BLM going out rounding up and killing coyotes, wolves, mountain lions, bears and all the other animals that are dying off because the land no longer provides for them the way it should, and they are a danger because they actually go into human populated areas to attack pets and such. And the sad thing is, the more humans populate, the more space will run out for the wildlife that we share our land with.

 

[miniwhinny]

OKay I have quite a lot of knowledge concerning mustangs. I've studied them in the wild, owned them and been to many adoptions. What folks don't realize is that altough the mustang has roamed free for hundreds of years they are NOT roaming free now. Herds are in herd management areas ...more often than not with wire fences surrounding them. One herd here in Oregon that I've been to see a lot is on 30,000 or so acres. BUT when the herds get too large - they overgraze themselves and because they are trapped in these HMA's they can't choose to migrate to better feeding grounds like they would have done before the wild horse acts ('77 I believe) Round ups have to be done because it's no longer survival of the fittest - it's total survival when there's no grazing left. The spring grasses grow but after that - well that's all there is going to be. That's why the herds have to be rounded up and kept at levels just above the levels needed to prevent inbreeding. Dr. Cothran U of K gives advice on keeping the herds genetically sound. Yep, it's hard to find adopters but because we don't allow slaughter then adoption is the only option. If the herds were left to multiply forever then none of them would make it. They'd literally eat themselves off the range. These horses aren't always left to fend for themselves as a lot of people think. A few years ago 27 wild mustangs died of thirst because the BLM forgot to take the water tank trucks out to fill up their water supply. They really are managed these days and as such occasionally removing some is nesessary.

You have to think of it this way...as horse lovers...can you imagine the uproar next spring from animal lovers if half of the Pryor herd died this winter because of the lack of food...and they could have been saved by simply removing some. See - not easy huh? lol. I think the BLM would rather remove, try to adopt and feed them in pens rather than allowing the herd to be devastated by leaving them to starve. Also, herds like the Pryor and Kigers are always in demand. I was at the Kiger mustang adoption ( infact we were the winning bid on the high selling stallion) the day a 6 month old filly went for $19,000 ( yes guys...NINETEEN THOUSAND dollars for a wild off the range mustang !!!!!!!!)

I have a number of friends who own Pryor mustangs.

 

[Sue_C.]

I don't see the BLM going out rounding up and killing coyotes, wolves, mountain lions, bears and all the other animals that are dying off because the land no longer provides for them the way it should, and they are a danger because they actually go into human populated areas to attack pets and such. And the sad thing is, the more humans populate, the more space will run out for the wildlife that we share our land with.

Coyotes, wolves, mountain lions and bears are all NATIVE to North America...these "wild horses" are not. They are feral horses, ancestors of these horses came over with the conquistadores, (sp?) or they were farm animals, or ranch owned horses that got loose and turned wild. Nature had nothing to do with it...man did...right from the beginning...or they would never have gotten here to begin with. It is man's problem, and up to man to fix it as best he can. To over-simplify and romanticise starvation and the subsequent death of possibly hundreds of horses is just wrong, IMHO.

 

[Minimor]

mustangs have ran wild in America for hundreds of years.

I was going to say that the living conditions of the mustangs today and really much different than the living conditions of mustangs 100+ years ago. Biggest difference is their ranges now are much smaller than they were way back then. But, miniwhinny said it so much better than I can, so I'll just say "what she said"!!

 

[miniwhinny]

mustangs have ran wild in America for hundreds of years.

I was going to say that the living conditions of the mustangs today and really much different than the living conditions of mustangs 100+ years ago. Biggest difference is their ranges now are much smaller than they were way back then. But, miniwhinny said it so much better than I can, so I'll just say "what she said"!!

Gotta add one last thing...not meaning to point out the obvious - If you have a horse on a field with no feed and it dies a horrible slow death of starvation...it's called horse abuse not survival of the fittest. If the mustangs are just as trapped - even though their range is bigger - in an area they can't leave and they run out of food and WE as humans have contained them there - to me it's just the same...we (humans) are killing them because they can't leave and migrate to better feeding grounds.

I'm not saying I like the wild horse program or that it doesn't have problems ( believe me ..I have a lot of inside info on some really wrong practices) but as long as we are "managing them" then we are responsible for their well being to the best of our ability.

 

[IloveMiniatureshorses]

Yeah, I guess I see the point. But I do hope they at least leave Cloud and his herd alone.....

 

[miniwhinny]

Yeah, I guess I see the point. But I do hope they at least leave Cloud and his herd alone.....

Believe me ..they won't remove Cloud. They do adopt out his offspring. I have a friend with a Cloud daughter. But Cloud is too well known and is such a great ambassador for the herd that he'll remain with them. He'll probably go through the round up process just so they can cull his herd of the youngsters but he'll be going back out after. I'm not sure how they do the gather there. Some states do the sorting out on the HMA and some ship them all to the pens and then take back those they are keeping....now that's a subject for a new thread

.

 

[disneyhorse]

Fugly Horse of the Day

Controversial, of course, but I do have to side with Fugly horse on this one... she put up a good blog this afternoon regarding this issue..... the "other side" I guess.

Andrea

 

[miniwhinny]

Fugly Horse of the Day
Controversial, of course, but I do have to side with Fugly horse on this one... she put up a good blog this afternoon regarding this issue..... the "other side" I guess.

Andrea

She pretty much summed up what we've been saying. A lot of people are worried about what's going on but not for facts but for these panic driven e-mails.

I have a friend with one of Clouds daughters from a previous adoption and believe me --- she's very pampered and lacks for nothing.

 

[JennyB]

[SIZE=14pt]Not having lived in Wyoming for just short of one year and after viewing the Cloud site which ILoveMiniatureHorses first put up(thank YOU!), seeing how we here in Wyoming take care of our Elk population and thinking quite awhile about this, I decided to vote on the Cloud site against the BLM taking the horses off their land. [/SIZE]

Now I also agree with with miniwhinny A LOT concerning the state of wild horses in the United States. It is true that with the small land areas that the horses have compared to what they used to have say, a hundred years ago, they have a really hard time finding food in the deserts where most herds are. Once they finish the grasses they move on to weeds, then parts of sagegrasses and then they are eating the sagegrass right down to the roots, and the roots and anything they can get their mouths on and by that time most look like walking skeletons..very sad

...The BLM and their rules made it impossible for even the adopter's of wild horses to dispose of their BLM horses by slaughter when very ill, a fatal injury and very old age comes into play.

I believe we really made a fatal mistake by removing horse slaughter in this country and whether it's your beloved home-grown horse or a BLM mustang, when that horse gets sick or injured to where it would be fatal, some people have no way of disposing of their animals because of property right problems or they have no back-hoe to make the job easy on their own property. I have always had the luxury of having a way to bury my beloved equines, but most people are not that lucky. Currently one of the only avenues for some horse owners is to be close to a Zoo where they will take fatally injured horses, shoot them and feed them to their Cats of all sizes. The diet of most Cats at Zoo's is up to 80-90% horsemeat and that might have grown to 100% because of the lack of slaughter houses. I know many of you will not agree with me when it comes to having slaughter houses here in the states for horses, but it is REALLY necessary to have them back in operation. There are folks who can't afford to live in their homes anymore, let alone feed their horses and they have been leaving their homes with their horses behind to die!!!.. If that is not "REAL" cruelty, I don't know what is!!! ....there are folks who are taking your beloved horse from your backyard and killing them, cutting and taking the meat which is saleable and selling it to people for human consumption without federal approval. That horse meat is NOT safe to eat!!!..but if this current practice really gets started going, your all going to wish that the slaughter houses never left...sorry I am getting off the subject a bit here...

...but back to the wild horses at Pryor...they are a very small group who don't live in a desert area and again after much thought, I decided that they were not in any danger of starving to death like many of the other desert wild horses are and do. Also here in Wyoming we take very good care of another animal for which we have helped to destroy their habitat and those are the Elk herds. I don't live far from the Alpine and Jackson Hole feeding areas, but because we have SO upset their natural feeding grounds by placing highways through and housing developments in, Wyoming has spent the money to fence in all the herds of Elk and feeds them all winter. This of course is not natural for them, but it's the only thing that we can do to help protect them...I do admit that they are also a tourist attraction and Jackson Hole has benefited highly from this which is sad also, but hey ya can't have everything I am sorry to say as we all know

So if Wyoming can feed their Elk, then why can't they feed their wild horses? I know it's in the hands of the BLM, but each state could try to take their responsibility and work with BLM to help save the wild horses from a possible extinction. It might take a lot of work from many people and money(your taxes), but it might be worth a try. Again I see no harm coming to these Pryor horses by being left alone in their present state.

So I urge you as ILoveMiniatureHorses did by going to the Cloud website

Cloud web site

and vote against the round-up and any future round-ups of Cloud and his herd.

These are my thoughts and personal views on this specific wild horse group and of course legal horse slaughter. I do feel very strongly about BLM's rules concerning rounding up other wild horse herds and thinning them down. I don't agree with ALL of their rules, but they are necessary to keep the horse population down and healthy too. Another story for another day...

Please vote!

Thank You,

Jenny Shea

Auburn, Wyoming

 

[JennyB]

[SIZE=14pt]The Cloud web site like that works...sorry![/SIZE]

Cloud's web site

Again please think about this and go vote

Thanks,

Jenny

 

[miniwhinny]

and vote against the round-up and any future round-ups of Cloud and his herd.

...and ANY FUTURE ROUND UPS>

PLEASE don't voe for this if it included NO future round ups. I LOVE the wild mustangs. I've studied them in the wild, adopted and helped in research PLEASE don't sign this...it goes WAYYYYYY beyond feeding them. The BLM has Dr. Gus Cothran (one of the - if not THE _ TOP equine researchers in the world - carefully test the herds for genetic variability. Keeping herds safe goes beyond just feeding them. In the days before Wild Horse Annie and the passing of the Wild Horse Acts these horses could roam vast areas. They Pryor, Kiger and Sulphur herds are the BLM's three "star" herds because of their old Spanish links...Dr. Sponenberg and Hardy Oelke have spent many many hours up there studying them. BUT because of their rare genetics NO outside blood is allowed in the herd because of this inbreeding is a real issue. When the horses are in small contained areas and those two year olds get kicked out of the herd they can't roam hundreds of miles away to start their own herds. They HAVE to be removed to keep the core of the herd genetically variable.

PLEASE don't let emotion get in the way. I'm not saying the BLM is perfect. As someone who knows a lot of what goes on there's a lot I disagree with (be happy to discuss in another thread if anyone is intrested) but PLEASE don't sign this....You'll be hurting Cloud and his band more than you"ll ever know if you try to ban ANY future round ups.

There needs to be a way to vote for more land for them - leaving them in the Custer range without banning any round ups.

 

[SilverDollar]

So...horses are not native to the range but cattle are? 30,000 wild horses and burros penned up in "management areas" that the BLM determines (where they also decide the water supply for those same animals) and 12.5 million cattle on public lands that invariably compete for the same water? Cattle ranchers can graze their livestock on "our" lands for $1.35 per animal unit per month with 10 year leases. How do I sign up for that deal to keep my horses on public land so cheap??

Sounds like some serious conflicts of interest to me.

Oh brother...