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midnight star stables

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How can i get my mini to carry his neck better when diving.. He doesn't collect it at all..??


Please, can some one help


Thanks again Desiree
 
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ruffian

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I don't know how long you've been driving, but once he's comfortable, and moves out well, start half-checking him up. Take your little finger and on one side at a time, gently pull and release the rein. If he slows, anticipating a whoa, tap him lightly with a whip and give him the command to trot. Using alternate halfchecks should start collecting him.

Another option is to use draw reins to bring his head in. The best thing would be to find a trainer in your area to learn how to hook them up and use them. They can be very severe if used incorrectly. Basically, the draw rein is a long line with a snap hook on the end, and a slide pull with a snap to hook to the bridle.

If you have a bitting rig, use that, but if not, just use the surcingle from your harness. Harness up the horse with the surcingle and bridle, with out the checkrein to start. The end of the rein can be clipped to one of the side rings of the bitting rig, or the harness if it has them. You can use a buckle to hook to if nothing else. So the rein goes from the surcingle, back to the pulley on the bridle, and then back through the rings on the surcingle.

Then start ground driving him, and pulling his head back carefully while driving him on with your voice and whip. Work 15-20 minutes at a time, alternating directions. Just remember you have a tremendous lever at work, and be careful not to apply too much pressure.

Good Luck!
 

Sunraye Miniatures

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It takes time for a horse to perfectly collect itself. Even years.

Of all the driving horses I've trained I only had 1 that really collected right from the start.

Unless your horse isn't sticking his nose up in the air I wouldn't worry about it. Time and patience.
 

midnight star stables

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i'm a little lost in the fist post.. but i'll have my dad help me tomorrow


well we have been driving since the snow melted.. & he was driver as a 2yr old for 2-3 yrs i think.

He stands great..
just doesn't move to well, i'll post a picture for help
 

midnight star stables

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To me he looks shabby.. This was before summer grooming, training, & clipping, these pictures were also taken after I had worked him, & we just went up to the house to say "hi".. So he is probably tired.. & He does usually hold hi head up nicer.. But it give you an idea… him at his very worse..
 

Sunraye Miniatures

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This is your senior stallion right? If he isn't being shown I would not worry about it. Also tips since he is a senior never drive too long and especially never in the heat! His head set isn't all that bad. Let him drive comfortably.
 

Littleum

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Collection comes from impulsion, which comes from the rump. It doesn't come from setting the head. Proper head and neck carriage is a result of a horse being through, connected and on the bit. Developing impulsion and collection is progressive.


You can take a shortcut and crank the head & neck into "position" with checks and draw reins and martingales and leverage bits. But that accomplishes very little that's positive and can result in a lot of negatives.


Not that I'm saying these tools don't have a valuable place in the proper hands who know when, where, why and how to use them. But they are no replacement for correct basics and patience.


If you want more education, your best bet is to take lessons with a good instructor (if you can't find a fellow driver, try a dressage trainer), who can get you started.
 
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willowoodstables

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Littleum....

Collection comes from impulsion, which comes from the rump. It doesn't come from setting the head. Proper head and neck carriage is a result of a horse being through, connected and on the bit. Developing impulsion and collection is progressive
WOW bingo..most drivers try to crank the head in and thus the horse leaves his hocks behind and won't be happy..THANKS for saying it better than I could.

Midnight..go back to lonnglines..I have a WHOLE page on teaching impulsion at work and once back there I will copy it for you (pm me to remind me). The rear has to "drive" the horse up into the vertical "brake" of the bit. In longlines, walk behind him..cluck using half halts with your fingers. Once he will move OFF the rear steady without halting, jog behind him. Keep urging with small brake (very lite half halts) and then go the cart. This takes LOTS of time. But PM me and I can forward you this page..it is pretty concise on getting a proper headset by using the motor (rear) versus cranking the head in and literally stopping his motion.

Kim
 

wildoak

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Well said Littleum! Midnight Star, if you are a rider it's basically the same principle you would use in the saddle.

Jan
 

Littleum

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willowoodstables said:
WOW bingo..most drivers try to crank the head in and thus the horse leaves his hocks behind and won't be happy..THANKS for saying it better than I could.

430372[/snapback]

There are a few things old instructors beat into my skull.
Forward and through being one of them. One of the others is that a weak leg results being punished with 20 minutes of sitting trot, and heaven help me if I dare flop around like a fish on my horse's back. But those are other stories.


I think it was Jane Savoie who wrote a great article called "Demystifying the Half Halt" a number of years ago.....I think it was later included in one of her books? Might want to check the local library, Desiree.
 

Sunraye Miniatures

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rabbitsfizz said:
People could we please try to remember this horse is 26 years old?????
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EXACTLY!!! Like I said in my other posts. Unless he has his nose stuck up in the air and according to the pics it isn't I wouldn't worry about it.
 

lyn_j

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[SIZE=14pt]Jane is EXACTLY right!!! THis horse is 26 years old.... if he drove for a couple of years as a 2 and 3 year old that was 23-24 years ago!!! Give him a break! Desi.... he should not be working this hard at his age..... do you want him to have a heart attack or something. Im not trying to be rude and I will probably get private e mails about picking on this kid but GEEEESZZZZZZ This horse is OLD! WE shouldnt expect him to be in the training mode anymore.Desi what you are seeing as "shabby" is just his age showing. You are really blind to the fact that he isnt a spring chicken anymore. I know you adore him..... but let him rest![/SIZE]

Lyn
 

Ashley

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I notice a few things. The cart is way to big for him, and his bit is IMO pulled to far up into his mouth. I also agree the the old man retire.
 

Crossbuck Farms

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In defense of Old horses. They do not know they are old. I'm not saying work him like a 3 yr old but don't retire him. He seems happy at his pace of driving. The day an old horse says you know I'm 20 plus I better quit driving is the day I quit driving. I barrel raced a 25 year old appaloosa and he did not know he was 25 and continued to race until 3 weeks before he died.
 
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midnight star stables

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dazzler79 said:
In defense of Old horses. They do not know they are old. I'm not saying work him like a 3 yr old but don't retire him. He seems happy at his pace of driving. The day an old horse says you know I'm 20 plus I better quit driving is the day I quit driving. I barrel raced a 25 year old appaloosa and he did not know he was 25 and continued to race until 3 weeks before he died.
430601[/snapback]

thanks,

i would never work him hard Or in heat

he was driven last summer & a little before that, & we ground drove him for almost a year!

Also we have a indoor arena so we have winter too.

I have slowed up Alot with him & i will only continue,

but but i think lightly is fine.. this isn't some thing new to him.

(oh & that was our old cart, in apirl/may, we now have a new one, for his & joys size, we were working with what we did have)
 

Littleum

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midnight star stables said:
thanks,

i would never work him hard......

I have slowed up Alot with him & i will only continue,

but but i think lightly is fine.

430621[/snapback]

I had no idea this was your old old man. Handsome boy.


So you know, asking a horse to be active behind and step up under himself is a lot of work. Impulsion is generated by energy and power, and collection is powered by impulsion- always lots of forward energy. It also puts strain on the hocks and back as you ask the horse to lower his rump, drive off his hocks and come through his back into your hand.

At 26, he's in the twilight of his life and should probably be allowed to dictate how much he does. If he's active, HAPPY and RELAXED in his work I would be more then satisfied. To put it in perspective, in human years he's well over 100. I think we can all agree that we'd be very lucky to be going for a jog a few days a week at 100!

There are tough old ponies who keep doing moderate work past 25. I'd only venture into this under the constant and watchful eye of an excellent trainer and vet that could spot any potential issues *immediatly*.
 

rabbitsfizz

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You really do need to make up your mind, you seem to have an answer for everything so I am wondering exactly why you ask the questions in the first place. Your original question was

How can i get my mini to carry his neck better when diving.. He doesn't collect it at all..??

Please, can some one help

We are telling you to leave him alone, to stop attempting to "train" him at this advanced age, and now you say you have slowed up working him, you would never push him too hard etc.

In which case you do NOT need advice on how to change the head set of a 26 year old horse!!!

I'm sorry, I know this is harsh, but I am afraid I relate just a little too closely to this subject since Rabbit is also 26.

AND RETIRED!!!!
 

_minihorses4ever_

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dazzler79 said:
In defense of Old horses. They do not know they are old. I'm not saying work him like a 3 yr old but don't retire him. He seems happy at his pace of driving. The day an old horse says you know I'm 20 plus I better quit driving is the day I quit driving. I barrel raced a 25 year old appaloosa and he did not know he was 25 and continued to race until 3 weeks before he died.
430601[/snapback]



We have a 26 year old QH mare that we still ride. She is in great shape, and loves to perform! she looks 8 years younger than her real age (literally). We do not do any radical (sp?) moves on her or anything, but she enjoys teaching the younguns the ropes (tacking, grooming, walk, some trot). She was a national champion cutter in her day, and has to come to us to "retire". She is in really really nice shape for her age (says the vet and other horse people)

I agree with Littleum. Our QH mare is very tough and in good shape. Now if MIdnight is in the same shape as her I dont know,but I would make sure he is properly cared for and has the desire to contunie his work if he is in that great shape.
 
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