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Firefall

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Hi ,

I have a new stallion, just arrived on Sat. I've had stallions before, but this guy is a little more studly then the others I had. He's 3 yrs old, and is next to the mares pen so he is near them 24/7 and this is his first herd. He is friendly, comes right up to me. When I begin to pet his body or lead he will nip or try to rear up.

Sometimes kicks out. I want to start off, teaching him I'm in charge, so I don't want to use the "wrong" body language for starters. Then I'll work on the rest.

Tell me, what I should not do to NOT show submission?
 

Little Wee Horse Farm

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I believe that an important thing with stallions is to always maintain your superiority. Don't let your guard down. Anticipate his actions before he goes ahead & does it. As in, if you look at him enough when he's on a lead, you can learn when he's just even thinking about nipping. Before he actually goes to do it, YELL "Quit!!!" and give the lead a snap maybe. You've got to catch him before he actually does something. Watch him.............he'll get that look about him, that certain posture & you can catch him before he does it.

The key to ANY training of ANY horse (or any other animal) I belive to be consistancy. If something is not acceptable to you, it should not be acceptable no matter who is handling the creature. No is no. But I don't use "no" with a horse because it's too close to "whoa." If someone can't maintain the consistancy, they don't handle the horse.

As for body language, it depends on what you want him to do. Go forward, intimidate him. Go backward, away from him, invite him to go a particular way.

It's a BIG subject, even tho your question is short. Just remember -- you are in charge & he can't ever be. This is hopefully not sounding like I'm mean to my guys. I'm not. Just boss mare!

We just got a stallion last spring who thought he was "all that." It took a while & his threats of kicking at me, biting etc. But with constant consistant attention to detail, he's a puppy dog I can take kids in with. It was his first herd to & I think that had a lot to do with his attitude. But now he's a sweetheart.
 

DunPainted

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Oh, boy, sounds like you have your hands full with a giant ball of testosterone. We just went through this experience with a three year old and his first "true" herd, and he did all the things you mentioned AND tried to kill my precious, ONLY foal, Phoenix!

Keep in mind that this stallion completel Level 1 of Parelli natural horsemanship training with his former owner. He was a perfect gentleman when no mares were around....but acted exactly as you described if mares were anywhere within smelling distance.

My friend, a Parelli trainer, came over to work with him and he did the rearing, biting and kicking out. I tried hand-breeding with him, but the mares would have nothing to do with him because he frightened them. Truth be told, I faced up to the fact that there's more to breeding than throwing a stallion out in a pasture and watching to see who gets bred. It's a potentially dangerous endeavor and I readily admit that I am not experienced enough to breed with any stallion other than one that has a proven record of both settling the mares and peacefully cohabitating with them. I have since sold the stallion of my dreams to a wonderful family friend who understands the needs, quality and risks of stallion handling and the horse is a much happier one for admitting my inadequacy/incompetence and doing what was best for the horse.

While we're on the topic, a horsewoman I truly respect raised an interesting idea, as there seems to be a proliferation of poorly bred minis that are being neglected because the "novelty" wore off. She thinks that in order to breed, one must invest their time in educating themself on proper breeding, then pass a certification test by their respective registry in order for the foals to be registerable. Yes, it sounds like "Big Brother", but perhaps we might see less mini mills where animals are neglected and better bred minis as a result.
 

DunPainted

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Oh, boy, sounds like you have your hands full with a giant ball of testosterone. We just went through this experience with a three year old and his first "true" herd, and he did all the things you mentioned AND tried to kill my precious, ONLY foal, Phoenix!

Keep in mind that this stallion completel Level 1 of Parelli natural horsemanship training with his former owner. He was a perfect gentleman when no mares were around....but acted exactly as you described if mares were anywhere within smelling distance.

Sorry for not having any direct advice on handling the stallion, as I shall leave that to our more experienced mini mentors. However, allow me to share my experience so you know that someone's "been there" with regard to your situation.

My friend, a Parelli trainer, came over to work with him and he did the rearing, biting and kicking out. I tried hand-breeding with him, but the mares would have nothing to do with him because he frightened them.

Truth be told, I faced up to the fact that there's more to breeding than throwing a stallion out in a pasture and recording the dates when a mare is bred. It's a potentially dangerous endeavor and I readily admit that I am not experienced enough to breed with any stallion other than one that has a proven record of both settling the mares and peacefully cohabitating with them.

I have since sold the stallion of my dreams to a wonderful family friend who understands the needs, quality of this stallion and risks of stallion handling. This horse is a much happier one because I admitted my inadequacy/incompetence and doing what was best for the horse. Please understand, I'm not saying you are inexperienced, etc......but just want to share a lesson learned.

During the course of trying to "work" with this stallion that exhibited the same behaviors as yours, I turned to my mini mentors for advice. Interestingly, one of them cared enough to diplomatically tell me that the horse of my dreams will be the horse of many nightmares if I kept him....based on my lack of experience. She also relayed that she had a 3 year old stallion that she paid big bucks for, only to sell him for a small fraction just to get him out of her barn. Another told me to use a stud chain through his mouth and muzzle him in order to hand-breed him. HOWEVER, one has to ask themself, is that kind of temperment what I want to breed into my minis?

While we're on the topic, a horsewoman I truly respect raised an interesting idea, as there seems to be a proliferation of poorly bred minis that are being neglected because the "novelty" wore off. She thinks that in order to breed, one must invest their time in educating themself on proper breeding, then pass a certification test by their respective registry in order for the foals to be registerable. Yes, it sounds like "Big Brother", but perhaps we might see less mini mills where animals are neglected and better bred minis as a result.

Now, since this boy is in a new environment with the type of mares that'll kick his fanny and is handled by an experienced breeder/trainer, he's a totally different horse....very calm and respectful in the pasture. My hat is off to Nikki, she's a wonderful horsewoman and I'll always be able to see this boy and have a mare or two bred to him if I so choose.

Sorry for the long reply, but it's a very sensitive topic for obvious reasons.

Cindy

 

DunPainted

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Oh, boy, sounds like you have your hands full with a giant ball of testosterone. We just went through this experience with a three year old and his first "true" herd, and he did all the things you mentioned AND tried to kill my precious, ONLY foal, Phoenix!

Keep in mind that this stallion completel Level 1 of Parelli natural horsemanship training with his former owner. He was a perfect gentleman when no mares were around....but acted exactly as you described if mares were anywhere within smelling distance.

Sorry for not having any direct advice on handling the stallion, as I shall leave that to our more experienced mini mentors. However, allow me to share my experience so you know that someone's "been there" with regard to your situation.

My friend, a Parelli trainer, came over to work with him and he did the rearing, biting and kicking out. I tried hand-breeding with him, but the mares would have nothing to do with him because he frightened them.

Truth be told, I faced up to the fact that there's more to breeding than throwing a stallion out in a pasture and recording the dates when a mare is bred. It's a potentially dangerous endeavor and I readily admit that I am not experienced enough to breed with any stallion other than one that has a proven record of both settling the mares and peacefully cohabitating with them.

I have since sold the stallion of my dreams to a wonderful family friend who understands the needs, quality of this stallion and risks of stallion handling. This horse is a much happier one because I admitted my inadequacy/incompetence and doing what was best for the horse. Please understand, I'm not saying you are inexperienced, etc......but just want to share a lesson learned.

During the course of trying to "work" with this stallion that exhibited the same behaviors as yours, I turned to my mini mentors for advice. Interestingly, one of them cared enough to diplomatically tell me that the horse of my dreams will be the horse of many nightmares if I kept him....based on my lack of experience. She also relayed that she had a 3 year old stallion that she paid big bucks for, only to sell him for a small fraction just to get him out of her barn. Another told me to use a stud chain through his mouth and muzzle him in order to hand-breed him. HOWEVER, one has to ask themself, is that kind of temperment what I want to breed into my minis?

While we're on the topic, a horsewoman I truly respect raised an interesting idea, as there seems to be a proliferation of poorly bred minis that are being neglected because the "novelty" wore off. She thinks that in order to breed, one must invest their time in educating themself on proper breeding, then pass a certification test by their respective registry in order for the foals to be registerable. Yes, it sounds like "Big Brother", but perhaps we might see less mini mills where animals are neglected and better bred minis as a result.

Now, since this boy is in a new environment with the type of mares that'll kick his fanny and is handled by an experienced breeder/trainer, he's a totally different horse....very calm and respectful in the pasture. My hat is off to Nikki, she's a wonderful horsewoman and I'll always be able to see this boy and have a mare or two bred to him if I so choose.

Sorry for the long reply, but it's a very sensitive topic for obvious reasons.

Cindy

 

Firefall

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I was just out messing with him, he is very willing to come up to me. I pet him a little, when he nips I tell him no. Now this is what he did today, I'm in his pen, I have a hold of his halter, he starts rearing, did this several times, I let go so I don't get kicked. But I didn't run or turn around. I walked up to him closer each time he did it. Then he did it when I wasn't even touching him, he didn't kick out or strike. I'm not sure how to handle this.

It made me mad, I'm determined he's not going to get the best of me, so I got a lead rope on him and lead him around his pen, did really well, which suprised me, so I then patted his chest with praise, gave him a treat, took the lead off and left.

How do you stop a rearing mini? What type of discipline do I use?
 

rabbitsfizz

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OK Cindy, how many times did you hit "post"???


Over here up until recently we had Stallion Licensing, which basically just said the Stallion was sound, of good temperament and had the correct equipment. He also had to pass a fairly rigorous (if you had my Vet!!) health test.

Now the EU, in it's wisdom, has decreed Stallion Licensing illegal, so we are in the process of finding some way of preventing our whole breeding programme from going down the pan!! It could be a blessing in disguise as we will no longer be able to refuse registration, but we will be able to grade and set the criteria for Show animals, at least.

Anyway none of that answers the question. In order to show him you do not accept his behaviour make your self tall, (even I can do it and I'm a Hobbit) stand on tippy toe, raise your head aggressively and step into his space. I do not shout anything as horses do not actually understand Human, nor do dogs, so I will grunt if he did not back down, but, usually just calling the bluff is enough. Decide before you start if you are going to be vocal or not and stick to it. If you have a soft, ineffectual voice it is probably best to stick to body language!!

Horses do NOT think you are another horse, he is only using his own language to attempt to bully you, which is fairly normal, teenage thug, behaviour , and meeting him half way with a bit of language he understand will work wonders!!

Then you can start a dialogue, and he can learn a few words of human
 

DunPainted

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You're hilarious, Fizzz......Miss Cindy's computer needs some caffeine!

Rearing/striking out is the ultimate act of aggression towards a human, as is biting! Jane's absolutely right, he's a teenage bully THROWING A TEMPER TANTRUM and somehow it's up to you to make it stop. Having trained a few big horses, helped folks doctor up equines....one of which was a Belgian draft horse with an abcess who pulled away whilst holding her as the owner was trying to "pack the hoof" and was literally whipped across the barn, perhaps I qualify for knowing a bit about equine behavior. Generally, I'm confident in "reading" horses, but stallions are an entirely different ANIMAL! Three year old stallions who've not been properly handled are downright DANGEROUS and, God forbid, a child get in his pasture while in the throes of a testosterone surge.

At the moment, he's already won....established his dominance and it'll be tough going for him to become manageable.

Currently, I have taken on three mares and a wonderfully bred, eight year old gentleman stallion to sell for a woman whose personal problems were so overwhelming that she couldn't buck hay down from the mow and to the pasture. After my ordeal with Mr. Naughty and having the opportunity to observe her well mannered and gentlemanly this eight year old stallion behaves in the pasture, I must say that he's worth five times his asking price. I'm thinking about keeping this tiny bay beauty. (By the way, Qtr Raes owned him prior...that's probably why he's such a good boy!)

There are so many stallions out there, especially going into the winter months when folks want to sell their "boys", that perhaps you may want to rethink your plan for this guy. Perhaps you could have a trainer come to your place and help the two of you get back on track.

I wish you all the best.....and be safe!

Cindy
 
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kaykay

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number one MOVE HIM. if hes standing there looking at mares all day but cant get to them hes gotta be pretty frustrated. Also you just got him a couple days ago. Its going to take time for him to settle in. (i would also be worried about penning a new horse that close to the herd as hes not being quarantined)

like rabbit i am always very upright and commanding when i go out to any of my horses. Body language is important.

use a stud chain under his chin to lead him until he settles down. never let go of a rearing horse. By letting go you are teaching him he gets what he wants by rearing (you letting go)

stallions HATE to be moved if they are near mares. But normally once the mares are out of sight they calm down. They also dont like it if they are penned with mares and you take a mare out.

make sure training sessions are where he cant see the mares. once you get his respect you should be fine
 

wcr

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Since you are having issues with your young man, I wouldn't do anything unless I had halter and leadrope on him. Just holding his halter puts the advantage in his court if he acts up. Be consistent. Everytime he acts out you must reprimand him. While he behaves he can have all the pats he wants but bad behavior earns it's own reward. One thing he will definately understand in any language is if he rears grab him around the neck and hold him off the ground in front. Not all that heavy and makes a huge impression.
 

ClickMini

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Be proactive when you are around him. Keep a positive focus and decide what you want him TO do, instead of what you DON'T.

For example, if you want him to back up softly. Keep your focus on his performance, continue to ask until he starts to lean back, then give him the release.

I am in a bit of a hurry right now, can't answer in detail. But the very first thing I would teach this boy is to put his nose in the dirt on command. That is the opposite of studly behavior, and it WILL change his attitude. Remember when teaching nose on the ground, it is NOT a forward moving exercise. If he steps forward, reset him back a step or two, then ask again.

From teaching nose down, I would go into backing up, then backing in a square. All of these activities will change his mind in a hurry.

Once you have all of the head-lowering and backing exercises, you can move into forward moving exercises.

If he doesn't do what you are asking right away, just keep asking and ignore the other behavior as long as it isn't dangerous to you, him, or any other animal in the vicinity.

Hope that helps,
 

k9mini2

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Just my bit of wisdom here. Never start anything with a stud unless you are equiped to handle him. and dont ask him to do anything unless you are prepared to make it happen. Do not retreat, back up or sidestep or let him push into you. even bumping you with is nose is testing to see if he can push a little more. Swinging his butt into you or side stepping into you is telling you he doesn't respect you. Nibbling with his lips at this time is no no correct with a firm yank on the stud chain. He should be watching you and waiting you you to tell him what to do if you arent there yet you have some homework to do.

So go in with a lead rope, stud chain and if needed a small whip or crop to tap him with. (no beatings needed just a reminder) You might want a more experience person to come help you if you feel uncomfortable with this.
 

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