What Is With People???

[georgiegirl]

I am just astounded at the number of people who think that their horses do not need any vaccinations. What kind of thinking is that?

They are playing Russian Roulette when they say that they have never had a problem. Anyone who has witnessed West Nile Virus, first hand, knows that that is pretty much a death sentence. Now, rabies is rearing its ugly head in the equine population of our state. Sleeping sickness is a death sentence also.

The vet bills to save your horse from any of the ills,which can be prevented, are astronomical.

What is the reasoning? You dont want to spend the money? You really think that your animals wont contract diseases? You live in an area with no mosquitoes? None of this is valid thinking.

 

[Matt73]

I agree. Although some people may overvaccinate, everyone should give at least the basics to their horses (flu, tetanus, EEE, WEE). Horses are very susceptible to tetanus and it is so easily preventable.

 

[Shari]

I think it is a combo of.. most people in this day and age Not having seen what Tetanus, WEE, EEE and so on, can do. They don't know that their horses can die a slow painful death. Since they have not seen these issues, they think they are gone and or not a problem in the modern age. I have sadly seen a number of horses die, that did not need to because they were not vaccinated.

Some don't like to spend the money....

Vaccines don't always work 100% but I rather make sure my horses get any extra protection available. I never ever want to put my horses through getting Tetanus or any of the issues that I can help against by giving them yearly vaccines.

 

[MindyLee]

Ok...

So what about folks who are told NOT to vaccinate cause of breeding? I personally heard NOT to vac if I breed cause in both mares and studs it keeps them from producing good sperm and or keeps mares from either getting pregnent, aborting, or having other issues like deformalities, and still borns.

Now I will admite, I only vaccinate every other year, and I breed. I have not personally seen this happen to any of my foals, studs, mares: but have heard horror stories from other breeders. In a post from a while back said there was/is no proof of this, BUT how can one tell. If you get into minis or any type of equine, and decide to breed after hearing this info, then that could explain why some folks dont vaccinate in my oppinion. It made me think twice about vaccinating years ago.

And now with recalls left and right cause of bad batches of vaccinations (example: West Niles), well that too also could be another reason for foks not to.

And again like mentioned above, $$$ is the biggest I would say, also, not only about vaccinations, BUT what about floating teeth or other dental issues. As a mini farrier for my county, I would say about 85% of my clients did'nt know that their minis need their teeth looked at or understand how big they really are and the issues that could be going on in their minis mouth. After giving them a crash course in dental care and giving them a card for a local equine dentist, they always ask about the $$$ part and Im sure the scares them off too and keeps them from having it done.

 

[Tab]

I believe in vaccinating against rabies and tetanus primarily. Here's a good video series on what to vaccinate for and why.

Horzvet on Prevention: Vaccination

Another consideration. Some horses react very badly to vaccines. I had a horse who would swell terribly from vaccines. He got worse every year he had shots.

You simply cannot vaccinate a horse who reacts like that. I still have mixed feelings on certain vaccines. Some of the potential vaccine reactions make administering those vaccines questionable. They are said to be safe, but when you have witnessed or heard of reactions you trust what you've seen/heard.

The bottom line is the biggest issue. $$$ prevents a lot of people from getting the vet out every year. It is very cost prohibitive to get a vet out for shots and floating. There are a lot of people who do the best that they can with their horses but when it comes down to it feeding and caring for their family and paying the mortgage takes priority.

Sometimes the horses are getting nourished, dewormed, loved on, and cared for, and that is all that people can do. I'm not saying that it's right, but it could be worse.

 

[wingnut]

Last year, when my husband first brought up the idea of us bring home a miniature horse, one of the first things I laid out on the table was this:

We *would* spend what was necessary to keep our horses healthy. That this could amount to considerable $$ and if he wasn't prepared to cough up those $$ then we weren't buying anything. To my suprise, he agreed and has followed through. He hardly bats an eye when I say it's time to call out the vet, farrier or equine dentist.

We've also been lucky in that our vet, farrier and equine dentist expenses have been far less than I anticipated. And that includes the emergency colic call we had during the blizzard back before Christmas. I've spent far more on our dogs in a year than I have on our horses. Obviously, that could change. Among other things, the cost of care is what is keeping us from buying another 2 or 3 animals, despite my huge desire to do so. With each purchase comes additional routine costs and that must be considered before adding to a herd.

I'm not an expert on the subject. I rely on my vet to provide me with the best information HE has on what we should be doing to keep our horses healthy. I chose him because I felt comfortable with his knowledge and advice.

I agree that sometimes you have to not vaccinate because of extroidinary circumstances. Our miniature Dachshund can ONLY receive the rabies vaccine because she reacts so badly to everything else (severe facial swelling). We recognize that we are talking a calculated risk by doing so. If one of our horses were to develop a similar problem, we would weigh the pros and cons with our vet and make our decision accordingly.

Each person has to make their own choices but I would hope they make them based on what's best for their animals and not their wallets. If you can't afford the basics of ownership, than maybe you should rethink that ownership?

 

[Matt73]

Ok...

So what about folks who are told NOT to vaccinate cause of breeding? I personally heard NOT to vac if I breed cause in both mares and studs it keeps them from producing good sperm and or keeps mares from either getting pregnent, aborting, or having other issues like deformalities, and still borns.

Now I will admite, I only vaccinate every other year, and I breed. I have not personally seen this happen to any of my foals, studs, mares: but have heard horror stories from other breeders. In a post from a while back said there was/is no proof of this, BUT how can one tell. If you get into minis or any type of equine, and decide to breed after hearing this info, then that could explain why some folks dont vaccinate in my oppinion. It made me think twice about vaccinating years ago.

And now with recalls left and right cause of bad batches of vaccinations (example: West Niles), well that too also could be another reason for foks not to.

And again like mentioned above, $$$ is the biggest I would say, also, not only about vaccinations, BUT what about floating teeth or other dental issues. As a mini farrier for my county, I would say about 85% of my clients did'nt know that their minis need their teeth looked at or understand how big they really are and the issues that could be going on in their minis mouth. After giving them a crash course in dental care and giving them a card for a local equine dentist, they always ask about the $$$ part and Im sure the scares them off too and keeps them from having it done.

I've never heard of such a thing. Mares and stallions used for breeding should especially be vaccinated including a prefoaling set for mares 2-4 weeks prior to foaling. All big breeding farms do this. Also, if someone can't afford to provide proper care for their animals maybe they shouldn't have them or should cut down in numbers.

 

[georgiegirl]

I have been helping a freind of mine look for a new mini. We have searched high and lo to find just the right one.

I am just appalled at the number of people who, for whatever excuse they have, do not believe in vaccinating their animals. If it is money, then cut the herd so you can afford to properly take care of what you have.

If it is lack of knowledge, talk to a veterinarian who can explain the details to you.

Quit putting your animals at great risk.

If your horse has the misfortune to come down with a serious, preventable disease, what will your excuse be then? Are you willing to pay the huge vet bill to try to save it?

Quit copping out by saying that so and so had a problem, so I am not going to take care of what needs to be done. Be responsible.

 

[Tab]

Quit copping out by saying that so and so had a problem, so I am not going to take care of what needs to be done. Be responsible.

Did you even read my post or view the videos I shared? I guess not. In order for people to sell horses they first need have money for vet care, exams, neg coggins, etc. It's not a cop out. It's reality. For some the money isn't there. Most people will do what they can.

ALSO, you implied that I need to be responsible. Do not assume I don't give shots!

PS the shots given to mares for rhino have in some cases resulted in spontaneous abortions... I do not care who (including the vets) say it's safe.

 

[~Lisa~]

Vaccinating your animals is a personal decision. I personally feel we are told by vets to over vaccinate our horses an example is tetanus.. yes horses are very much at risk to being exposed to tetanus but then again so do we as horse owners working with them in their environment and yet we do not get vaccinated yearly for it I have honestly always wondered why and I am sure there is a logical reason...

I do vaccinate my horses for WN yearly and when breeding chose for the most part not to do the rhino shots they do get yearly vaccines as well and I currently de-worm according to the latest research my vets here in ID and CA have told me which is no more then 2 times a year given my horsekeeping (property and way we clean ect)

Someone else may do something totally different then me. It does not mean I am right and they are wrong. There are many healthy horses in this country being kept and cared for in many different ways

 

[Little Wolf Ranch]

Personally I do not give any yearly shots unless my horses travel off my property and then they will get Tetanus, Rabies & West Nile. My horses hardly ever leave my property so it is not reasonable in my mind to have the shots done yearly. I feel that we over-vaccinate humans, dogs, cats, horses, cows, pigs, goats, etc. and it's not a money issue nor is it a "cop out". I currently have 8 miniatures and 1 QH whom are kept on dry lots & pastures along with getting hooves trimmed every 8 weeks, dewormed every 8 weeks, bridle paths trimmed every 8 weeks, teeth checked bi-annually or when a problem arises and a coggins is pulled on anyone leaving the farm or new coming into the farm.

I do feel that I save a great deal of money by giving my own shots (vaccinnes can be easily purchased at TSC) and doing my own hooves through learning from my farrier on the proper trimming technique. Because I save money through these things, I can afford to do extra shows, build more add-ons to paddocks, barns, etc. and even purchased more supplies to make more treats for them (have an awesome recipe if anyone wants it).

Anyone who I feel needs shots yearly, I purchase them from TSC and give them myself because yes, it is cheaper for me. It is $60 just for him to step foot on my property so that's $60 I save right off the bat! I try to avoid getting him out here at all costs if I can save the money to do it myself. But when my mare who lost her foal needed to be flushed - YOU BET I CALLED HIM OUT. It was $120 but well worth it for my mare.

Everyone does what they wish. If vaccinations are such a big problem with selecting your horses for purchase, I never let that bother me. Every horse (even if current on shots, etc. and in good shape) should be quarantined from all others for a good while. Mine I keep in a seperate paddock and stall for 4 weeks because anything can crop up in that time frame that you wouldn't want to expose your other horses to.

 

[GrandmaC]

I believe in that old saying, 'An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure'

However I do feel some in society over vaccinate and depending on what we're talking about

(Horse, human, dog) I do believe in sometimes getting a titter done vs another vaccine.

It is a very personal decision yet if someone comes down with something on the next door down's farm it could effect you.

When I was into QH's and cutting one of our trainers who had a large facility wanted all his clients horses to be vaccinated every

three months. I thought that was overkill. Our dogs? I make sure each gets their first and basic shots and their first yearly booster

and then I do every other to every third year boosters. Rabies is a law in our state but after the first one it's every three yrs.

I've been out of horses a while, can someone update me on the current vaccinations out there?

I remember eastern/western and then there was the intra nasal strangles. (Vet did intra nasal vs shot)

There was a yearly Rhino? Flu shot but with bred mares I think we gave them at 3 different intervals in their pregnancy.

Now there is West Nile and I did read about a recall or something in another post on here. If I remember correctly it should not be given to pregnant mares? A newer vaccine not yet sure if it is safe? I believe here in the Yakima Valley west nile is a semi big concern. We o have a lot of sqeeters.

 

[georgiegirl]

Quit copping out by saying that so and so had a problem, so I am not going to take care of what needs to be done. Be responsible.

Did you even read my post or view the videos I shared? I guess not. In order for people to sell horses they first need have money for vet care, exams, neg coggins, etc. It's not a cop out. It's reality. For some the money isn't there. Most people will do what they can.

ALSO, you implied that I need to be responsible. Do not assume I don't give shots!

PS the shots given to mares for rhino have in some cases resulted in spontaneous abortions... I do not care who (including the vets) say it's safe.

I dont do videos as I am on dial up and it takes hours.

If the money is not there, please let someone else have the animals so the health care can be covered. Food and love is only part of the equation.

I did not point fingers at you, personally, for not being responsible. I guess I must have hit a nerve.

Geez, and believe it or not, we do agree on one thing. I dont care for rhino either.

But what about West Nile, sleeping sickness, flu, and tetanus. My next door neighbor lost two to WN.

I am not going to sit around and watch my horse die of something that I could have prevented for $30. The suffering was unreal!!!

 

[tagalong]

I personally heard NOT to vac if I breed cause in both mares and studs it keeps them from producing good sperm and or keeps mares from either getting pregnent, aborting, or having other issues like deformalities, and still borns.

I have never, ever heard that - not about minis or any other breed I have worked with in the last 25 years... and it does not even make a lot of sense... who told you that?

 

[JWC sr.]

With show horses or horses that are around other horses on a regular basis the vaccinations are nearly a real necessity.

Personally we give the bare minimum to our horses that are breeding animals and/or stay on the farm(tetanus etc.). At the advice of our Vet. Our Vet is pretty opinionated on this subject and has a background of stud farms and breeding facilities for over 25 years. A number of years ago when we vaccinated for any and everything on the market he continually cautioned us against doing so. To him as he puts it less is better, as long as the basics are handled. After a few years with him and watching the fore casted problems such as aborted fetuses etc. we started leaning in his direction till we arrived at the place where we are. Which is basically to only vaccinate for those things that are fairly run of the mill and have stood the test of time so to speak.

I am sure everyone remembers the problems when the West Nile Vaccine first came out with bad batches, ineffective control and horses dieing for the vaccine itself, those type scares and problems we do not need.

So I guess what I am saying is there are two sides to every story and in this case it is something that each person has to make a decision on. And then deal with the consequences thereof.

 

[Marsha Cassada]

Wow, what a hot issue!

For me, it has nothing to do with $$$. If I were having my children now I would NOT vaccinate them either. I think it is a great big crock foisted on us by the pharmacuetical companaies. Cleanliness is a better preventive than a vaccination. And you don't get side effects from that. The only horse I've personally heard of that got tetanus lived in a filthy lot filled with debris. The only human I've known to get tetanus got a wound, didn't keep it clean and got gangrene, then got tetanus and died.

Someday it may be found that the huge increase in colic, founder and autoimmune disorders may be triggered by excessive vaccinations. And who makes money off those?

Maybe it's true--it IS all about $$$.

There is a new rattlesnake vaccine out. Having had horses bitten by rattlesnakes, I can see there is more chance of that happening to my horses than being bitten by a rabid raccoon. But I'm not going to vaccinate for rattlesnakes either.

So please do not label all folks who don't vaccinate as cheapskates, ignoramuses, or irresponsible. Some of us have made an informed, calculated decision about the issue.

After all, our horses have no say in the matter either way.

 

[Minimor]

Golly I get tired of people pointing fingers and then when someone disagrees with them they smugly state they must have hit a nerve. Having said that...

Yes, I do vaccinate my horses. The first year that WNV struck here, we couldn't buy the vaccines early enough to make them of any value--by the time the vaccines were available, horses were becoming ill with WNV. Even horses that received the first dose of vaccine were coming down sick before they could get the 2nd dose and develop immunity. We had a mare come down very sick with WNV--she did live, but many others in this corner of the province were not so lucky. Many died. It wasn't pretty. Our horses have been vaccinated for it every year since then and we've had no more cases. Actually in this province there have been very few cases at all since then, even in unvaccinated horses. That was 2002; 2003 saw a few cases, and since then, it's been as if the disease no longer exists here. Many people that did vaccinate for a few years have since quit. We've always vaccinated for EEE/WEE/tetanus. We have never vaccinated for flu or strangles, and have reasons for why we don't. The money part of it isn't the reason.

I do know people who don't vaccinate their horses, never have & probably never will. There's one person who doesn't vaccinate & doesn't deworm. We were just talking about her here the other day, and commenting on how she has never, in the 40 years we've known her, vaccinated or dewormed, and she's never had health issues in her horses. I don't know how she gets off so lucky. Even in 2002 when WNV was so bad, horses on farms all around her were getting sick with it, and she didn't have one single case of it on her farm. If her horses were infected they never showed symptoms. I don't know--it just has worked for her. I don't hold her up as a shining example of proper horse care; I know that if we tried to operate the same way, it wouldn't have such a good outcome for us!!!However, I also don't condemn her for it. Her way of doing things all these years has certainly worked for her--she's had far fewer health problems and losses than many who do things all "the right way"!!

 

[My2Minis]

I don't look down on people who don't vaccinate. It's a personal decision and people have different beliefs. Not vaccinating can be a well-thought out decision not a cop out or to save money. If a horse never leaves a person's property and is well-cared for, then I think yearly vaccines may be overkill.

The recent Prevenile recall points out that there is risk in vaccinating. And if the horses don't regularly contact other horses, then that risk may be too high. (I am aware that WNV has nothing to do with contacting other horses. Same with tetanus. It is always also a personal decision for the owner whether or not to vaccinate).

I do vaccinate, but I know many with healthy horses who choose not to.

 

[Shari]

I have done enough rescues over the years and I have seen.. not worming ones horse, isn't doing them any favors. Causes such damage to the horse's insides, its scary.

This last mare I rescued, who came from a place that do not believe in vaccines or worming their animals.. or feeding them for that matter. This mare.. took almost three months to get worm free. Because she was so over loaded we had to use a slow safe method of getting her worm free, other wise a mass die off of worms would of killed her.

Vet didn't even have to do a fecal on her, as we saw 4 different kinds of worms in her manure. It was totally gross, the shear amount of worms seen in her manure.

Have also see horse's die from problems that could be prevented by giving at least yearly vaccines. Having seen first hand how horse's die from these issues, I choose to Vaccinate them. I love them too much not too.

As for people Vaccines.. Most people alive now,have never had to deal with the % of childhood deaths, these vaccines prevent. I have a friend, who was born in another country end up with Polio. She is in a wheel chair because of it and her health is getting a little worse every year. Her mother wished she could of had access to the vaccines. When she got Polio, the Gov.. made her go to the hospital and their house was burned to the ground, with everything in it, so the disease would not spread. She had a sibling later who died of German measles.

I hear stories from both my parents.. on how many siblings and friends died back then because of those diseases.

Yes, it is a choice to vaccine or not and for many.. until there is a big resurgence of the diseases in both horses and humans, and many deaths, things will not change.

Living itself has risks.

 

[RockRiverTiff]

I also think vaccination programs are a personal choice. Much like feeding programs, each breeder arrives at their program through personal experience and what works for one may not work for another. I know there are threats in some areas that are non-existant in others. Personally, I vaccinate each horse on my farm based on their risk level. What my retired mares in the back pasture get is different from what the young show horses in the front barn get.

I have been helping a freind of mine look for a new mini. We have searched high and lo to find just the right one.

I wish the first post on this topic had explained this. IMO, sale horses are a totally different ballgame. I do think it's negligent to offer a horse for sale and then send it out into the world without any protection. At my local F&F I can get a 4-way for about $12 and a 5-way for $20 and the WNV is only an extra $25, so it does seem a little cheap that a seller would forego basic coverage to save such a small amount.