What is the market like for CDE/driving horses?

[CMR]

With the drought in my area, many nice minis are being given away or sold for pennies. Horses are running through the auctions like water. We all know where most of them will end up

I am considering purchasing one or two minis with nice conformation with the intent to train them to drive and resell. They would most likely be young, grade horses. While I have no doubt that I would be able to find many minis with resell potential, I'm unsure of the market for driving horses now? I hate that there are so many quality miniatures being sold for peanuts, when with only a little training they would be amazing drivers.

Is there a market for young, grade, well trained CDE/driving miniatures? Mainly my question is for the CDE and trail driving people, as obviously you can't show a grade horse in AMHA/AMHR shows. Also, what would you say is the average price for a well trained CDE horse?

Thanks.

 

[MiniHGal]

I would say it REALLY depends. It depends on the part of the country, the horse's ability, willingness, and soundness, and how well trained they are at time of sale. Unfortunately, without a proven CDE record, I don't think you will get much for a grade "CDE-potential" horse, even driving trained.

I would pay up to about 5000 for an excellent potential CDE horse, not trained, more than 5000 for excellent dressage training that I trusted...probably not a mini, as you can find a very cheap one with lots of potential but no training pretty easily, and I can do all the training myself--and generally prefer to do it. But horse or pony that I bought for CDE, I would be willing to pay quite a bit. Part of that is I know where I can get 'comparatively' cheap well CDE-trained minis that are registered.

The market you will probably get is families looking for safe, quiet, steady driving horses...they may never touch a CDE or showring. And you won't get a lot for the horses, probably. It is the nature of the American to try and get it cheaper, even if cheaper is less safe or less well trained.

I love the idea, just not sure it will fly for a lot of money. More driving horses are great and I think it is a skill that is important when the horse has to be resold.

It also comes down to...CDE is, in big part, dressage...to bring a horse to the point that someone else can do well with it at Prelim, it can take quite a bit of work and knowledge. More time than you are probably willing to put in, especially as you will have to prove the horse's abilities in the CDE arena.

Also, look at the amount of ADS stuff offered in your area...if its not a lot, and there are not a lot of minis attending, you're not going to find many people interested.

But good thoughts!

 

[hobbyhorse23]

Excellent post, Breanna! I missed this thread yesterday or would have responded sooner. I voted for $500-1500 but seriously looked at the under $500 option because with the current economy you can easily pick up a good untrained colt or gelding for that kind of money and it doesn't take long to train them up myself. I think you'll find that CDE is a sport where buying an already trained, successful horse is a lot less typical than it might be in the breed ring or other sports. The only times I've seen it happen were when someone handed down their campaigner to their children in order to start a new green horse themselves or someone sold out of the sport and another driver purchased their show horses. Otherwise all you really need to compete training level is the kind of steady quiet driving horse that any family would want for their kids. There is so much driver education involved that having an experienced CDE mini really doesn't get you much in the way of higher placings and by the time you've learned enough to get that performance out of them, you could have taught a green horse the same thing. Of course it's better to start with a well-built good mover (i.e. a higher-quality horse) but that's where the "I can pick them up for under $500 untrained in the current market" part comes in. And those are double-registered, showable, NICE horses!

Part of that is because the kind of mini that demands high prices is often the hotter, flashier, finer-boned, higher-moving horse and that is not necessarily what makes a good CDE competitor. The kind of horse that excels at that sport is bold but steady, refined but solid, lots of good angles and built like a little warmblood or sport horse with a lot of forward reach to their stride rather than "big motion." And there are plenty of those regrettably going for pennies as you've mentioned.

I commend you for wanting to rescue these horses and I think training them to drive is a good way to up their value and their chances for a happy life, but I wouldn't recommend going into it with hopes of making any money. There is a real market for carts and harnesses aimed at miniature combined driving horses right now but most carriage drivers prefer to train the horses for dressage and hazards themselves. CDE makes a sport out of the journey so you can show at almost all stages of training rather than needing a finished horse to even start. It makes it both easier to find a good horse and harder to sell one as aimed for that market!

Leia

 

[Bluerocket]

I have seen CDE experienced mini + harness + cart for $5,000 in ADS magazine. Cart was an easy entry wooden cart nothing fancy. Have no idea whether or not it sold.

I did not participate in the poll.

I would pay more for a double registered (amha/amhr or aspc/amhr) mare that is well conformed and a good mover appropriate for CDE --- and started in harness is a plus as long as she would not have any really bad habits. I would pay as much for her as CDE horse as I would as breeding stock. 3500+ depending on the individual horse.

I would not pay much for a gelding or stallion no matter how nice they are as I have plenty of geldings and don't need more boys. $500 or less.

I would not purchase a foal for this purpose. Would purchase coming 3yo or older.

JJay

 

[Katiean]

I would think that a trained grade miniature horse would bring more than if it had no training. Weather it is a mare, gelding or Stallion If it is grade I would think you could pick one up for $200-$300. Put some training on the horse and if it is kid proof in driving I would think you should get around $1000. The sex of the animal in that case should not be a factor. JMO

 

[R Whiteman]

Is there a market for young, grade, well trained CDE/driving miniatures? Mainly my question is for the CDE and trail driving people, as obviously you can't show a grade horse in AMHA/AMHR shows. Also, what would you say is the average price for a well trained CDE horse?

Your poll question was "what would you pay for a CDE horse?" That question has been answered very well by all who have posted here before me. But here is something we all need to think about. The whys and wherefores of the current glut of minis on the market has been talked to death, but when we dump our young horses for pennies, we are only hurting ourselves and each other. It takes a tremendous amount of work and time to get a horse to be consistently brave, forward, happy in his job and showing himself to his best advantage. Do not sell yourself and your efforts with any horse you spend time with short. To ask under 1500 dollars for a trained horse is to say to the public, "anyone can do this job and my efforts are not worth much". There is already too much of that attitude out and about. I can't begin to count the number of times people have asked why they should pay thousands of dollars for a horse when they can pick one up for 200 dollars, read the book or watch the video and have it driving down the road with their kids next week. I met a lady at a Horse Fair recently who had done just that. The cost of repairing her broken arm was much more that 1500 dollars.

CDE horses require a bit more time getting them out and about, into and out of hazards safely, etc. They are exposed to sounds and sights they wouldn't see in the breed ring. Sharing the warmup ring with a fourup of hanovarians, or a pair of friesians is rather intimidating for the bravest of mini types. Grade or otherwise, they should be commanding top dollar, not the dumping ground.

Dorothy

 

[K Sera]

Being new to the mini world and very interested in driving and CDE, I personally would expect, and do expect to pay more for a horse that has some training. That higher price should also give me a horse that is suited for the sport and has been chosen and trained because of its suitability. I don't have the time or experience to go out and find a low priced horse and hope it will do the job. I know about the importance of conformation, age and maturity, attitude and the drive needed to do a job that we want them to do. They have to want to do it and enjoy doing it, in order to get the end result. I am willing to pay a price to have all of that done for me, so I can now become a team with the horse and learn and experience together.

Prior dog training experience has shown me time and again that just because we, as owners of animals want them to do a certain job, doesn't necessarily mean they are capable of what we think they should be doing. Not only will you lack consistant performance, but you will have a very unhappy animal and frustrated owner/handler. After asking owners what they wanted from their animal, it was tested for those abilites. Most times the evaluation was not what the owner had hoped for. Forcing and animal to do things that we think they should do can be a disaster, or worse, having an animal that can not be controlled by the handler. We sold trained animals that did their jobs well and matched them to a handler, thus creating an awesome team once they worked together, learned what made each other tick, so to speak and bonded.

By the way ... I am in the market for a good trained horse and I will expect that horse to love what it was trained for and be perfect for me!

 

[R3]

I believe that you should be able to get a 'good' price for a well trained horse. And, I think there are a few people are a willing to do that. Unfortunately, I don't think there are enough of them out there, and they are wanting VERY well trained horses, not just well started horses.

It is kind of a catch-22 situation when you are wanting to take a horse, train it to drive, and then resell it. It would take MANY hours and probably MANY months to get one where it would be 'bomb-proof'. And, horses being what they are, some of them will never reach that degree of reliability. So, you put in several months of work on a horse, even thouse with the right attitude, but truthfully, even by then they are probably only considered 'green'. So, who can you sell that horse to? Mom and Dad want something totally safe for their children, something they don't have be around to supervise when they are driving. Your horse probaly wouldn't fit into that category. Or, it is someone who is starting out, it is probably their first driving horse, so they need something that will teach them and be forgiving when they make stupid mistakes. And, as experienced horse people know, putting a green person with a green horse (especiallhy when driving) can be a recipe for disaster. So, neither person in these two categories are a good candidate to buy your horse.

So, you need a more experienced person, BUT that experienced person could have started a horse themselves, so they don't want to pay you to have done something they could do for themselves. So, that person might buy your horse, but they wouldn't want to give a very high price for it.

Of course, there are people with plenty of experience, but little time to do all the basics with a horse, so they would be willing to pay you a decent price for a 'green' horse. But, as I started out saying, I think they are a small group.

And of course, there are the people that will buy the well trained, event ready horse, but before they will pay a high(er) price it needs to have proved itself in the event ring, and that is going to cost you even more time and money.

If you have a lot of time, I think it is an wonderful idea, and one that I contemplated myself. But, the reality for me was that I didn't feel comfortable selling a 'green' horse to most of the people that would have been buying, and I pretty much gave up on the idea.

(Just a note, to me, 'green' is a lot more than just... they wear the harness good and I've hitched them a few times without getting in a wreck. To me ,they are still 'green' even though they are going at all paces, turning circles and serpentines and are comfortable doing their job. To me, they are still 'green' as long as I have to still be careful that they don't 'startle' and until they are 100% on every cue with no misunderstandings. So, even 'green' for me is a pretty well started horse.)

 

[MountainMeadows]

I agree with Ron on this one -- we complain about prices then put horse on the market for under $500

A trained CDE horse is priceless IMO, the work that it takes to get a horse to this position involves not only the skill to be able to do it, but also tremendous amounts of time to really get the horse to the bomb-proof stage - that doesn't take into consideration the time it takes to reallly be good!

I think the CDE market is just beginning to take off, but in order to really get an assessment of it's potential you will need to become involved with your local ADS and get to know the people. Most of the big horse people that I have met thru ADS are totally flabbergasted as what the minis are able to accomplish and more and more of them are showing a sincere interest in adding a mini to their other fullsize CDE show string (and we all know where it will go once they have one mini

! )

I truly believe that their is a strong market in the CDE area for horses in the $1500-$3000 range - and in the future, probably even higher figures for a well trained horse. If the horse has A or R or Pinto papers - so much the better, but again, it comes down to marketing.

Good luck in your venture - I would suspect that if you have the time to do the legwork that you will create a nice little niche market for yourself.

Stacy