What color is this colt? Maximum White? Genetics?

[RockinN]

This colt will likely stay with our family and be gelded, but I am interested in his coloring. He is completely white, pink skin and two blue eyes. He is precious and 1.5 months old. He is really a pretty little thing. I'm interested him what color i would call him? White? Maximum white? What about his genetics? If bred, would he produce dilutes?

I've attached a picture of him and his mother, and also a picture of his sire (wen he was a weanling.)

 

[cretahillsgal]

I would say he is a maximum white sabino or splash. Hard to tell without testing for sure which.

As far as dilute, no he will not produce dilute just because he is white. You are thinking about cremelo or perlino horses which are double dilute. (2 cream genes) He would have to have gotten the cream gene from one of his parents to carry it. And his sire is obviously not carrying cream. I guess the dam could be a smokey black and pass one on to him though.

Are either of the parents tested for anything?

 

[targetsmom]

I think you will have to test him to find out. Is his sire still the same color or did he turn gray/white??

I would test your boy for splash, sabino, frame, and tobiano, plus red/black. Someone else may have better suggestions.

 

[Tremor]

Here's my question, what color is the dam?

I would say that he's a palomino with pinto markings. He just doesn't look "BAM WHITE" like some do. He kinda looks like my pinto palomino...kinda blah. You know? Maybe its just the lighting too, lol.

Do you have any other pictures of him?

 

[mini horse mania]

My max white came out of a frame mare and a tobiano stallion...i also would like to see a closer pic...he does appear to be max white...

 

[jyuukai]

Unless his mother carries a copy of cream (maybe she's smokey black? I can't really see her) then this boy will not be producing dilutes. He does appear to be max white

I would test him for the various paint patterns, as has already been mentioned <3

 

[ohmt]

Max white-even if he tests negative for splash and sabino doesn't mean he doesn't have those patterns, only that he doesn't have the splash and sabino genes available for testing at the moment.

 

[Mona]

I agree with maximum white.

 

[RockinN]

I have not had them tested. I am for sure going to though. Here are some more pics. These are from when he was just born. I don't have anymore recent ones on hand unfortunately. He really is BAM white, not off-white at the least.

 

[Blue rose]

He looks max sabino, although blue eyes are not as common with sabinos. To be max sabino he would be homozygous for sabino. It is not unusual for horses to have more that one gene for color pattern since overo and sabino genes are separate you can have a sabino/overo or even a sabino/tobiano. And most of the time this is not reflected in how the horses color is registered so it can be hard to tell where the sabino came from. To further add confusion to the situation sabino is an incomplete dominant gene meaning that what the horse is genetically might not be what ends up in the coat pattern.

As to what he could produce, if he is max sabino then all foals would have 1 sabino gene. since he might also carry other genes for color patterns those could also be passed on.

As others have said, we can only test for the genes that have been identified. And we don't know them all yet.

And this is how I put my genetics class to good use.

 

[targetsmom]

A maximum white could be either red or black, correct? At least with these parents... So if testing, wouldn't you want to know that too? Assuming you were curious!!

 

[mini horse mania]

Mo tested heterozygous for sabino,heterozygous for tobiano,and heterozygous for red black factor,which means he is black based but carries a copy of red...he is a max white sabino...

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I think this chap is going to be Max Splash(as we know blue eyes do not go with Sabino) Dam is Splash (but test for LWO) Sire has Splash, so I would say it is a given. Of course he might just be Max Sabino and have got the blue eyes form the Splash part, but that would be just to annoy you

and make things complicated. As has been pointed out, you could run all the tests and have him come up negative and still be positive (if you follow my drift) so I would just say he is Max White and have done. I would test for base colour only if I was really interested or if I were going to breed- ditto LWO.

 

[mini horse mania]

I think this chap is going to be Max Splash(as we know blue eyes do not go with Sabino) Dam is Splash (but test for LWO) Sire has Splash, so I would say it is a given. Of course he might just be Max Sabino and have got the blue eyes form the Splash part, but that would be just to annoy you

and make things complicated. As has been pointed out, you could run all the tests and have him come up negative and still be positive (if you follow my drift) so I would just say he is Max White and have done. I would test for base colour only if I was really interested or if I were going to breed- ditto LWO.

Just curious Why dont blue,eyes go with sabino? And why does it have to test homozygous sabino to be a max white sabino? Mine tested hetero for tobiano,sabino,and red black factor...they called him a max white sabino though...is this not correct?

 

[Lewella]

Mini mania yours would be a maximum white MULTI PATTERN pinto. The patterns can be cumulative and the more patterns you have, the more white you can get which is what has happened in your case. I suspect the foal in this thread will be the same - a maximum white multi pattern pinto.

 

[REO]

Max Splash

 

[Margo_C-T]

I was under the impression that a maximum sabino would have DARK skin and BROWN eyes(although I do understand that one or even both blue eyes *can* occur under the right genetic circumstance). So...can both dark and pink skin, but PURE WHITE hair coat, mane and tail, be maximum sabinos?

BTW, I have known 4 PURE WHITE, DARK-skinned and DARK-eyed, fullsized horses. Three were full siblings, part Arabian, used as a Roman riding team and a single trick riding mount by a former champion rodeo bronc rider turned custom boot maker named Paul Bond; the other was a QH mare(who was refused registration due to her coloring, back in the day!), but who was by a solid bay(Waddy Joe, by Little Joe the Wrangler,for you QH afficianados)! Never was told the dam's color, but it certainly wasn't a 'visible' paint, because for many years, AQHA refused registration to those, no matter what their pedigree.She was bought by Paul's son, George, who is my age and was then my schoolmate.

Margo

 

[Mona]

Margo, a maximum white sabino is what Chris's "Whitey" is. They have pink skin because it is just like the white color on any other pinto horse...where the white is, the skin is pink. Where the color is, the skin is dark. If the horses you are referring to had dark skin, they would actually had to have been greys or silver whites.

 

[chandab]

I was under the impression that a maximum sabino would have DARK skin and BROWN eyes(although I do understand that one or even both blue eyes *can* occur under the right genetic circumstance). So...can both dark and pink skin, but PURE WHITE hair coat, mane and tail, be maximum sabinos?

BTW, I have known 4 PURE WHITE, DARK-skinned and DARK-eyed, fullsized horses. Three were full siblings, part Arabian, used as a Roman riding team and a single trick riding mount by a former champion rodeo bronc rider turned custom boot maker named Paul Bond; the other was a QH mare(who was refused registration due to her coloring, back in the day!), but who was by a solid bay(Waddy Joe, by Little Joe the Wrangler,for you QH afficianados)! Never was told the dam's color, but it certainly wasn't a 'visible' paint, because for many years, AQHA refused registration to those, no matter what their pedigree.She was bought by Paul's son, George, who is my age and was then my schoolmate.

Margo

Could the Arabians have been greys that went totally white? The Arabian ranch I worked on in college had a couple completely snowy-white horses that weren't that old, but came from at least one grey parent. so, they had dark eyes and dark skin, but the snowy white coat.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

• There were some purebred, "white" Arabs- I think it was in Oz- they were possibly DW (has that been isolated in Arabs?) but they really were white.
  
• Sabino is not the gene that carries blue eyes, Splash is, in answer to the question a little way back- and I didn't say it had to be H/Z anything (did I? I looked and I can't see it, maybe you are confusing me with another poster?)- as Lewella pointed out it can just be h/Z and cumulative....