Troubleshooting a runaway...

[brasstackminis]

Ok, so I started awhile back ground driving my sheltand (I know it is not a mini, but there is no traffic there). I ground drove him for 6 months. Once I have a whoa, walk and steering, I go out onto less traveled country roads. So this guy has been driving for more than a year...closer to 18 months. So I have had lessons with him and driven him all over the place. He has never spooked at traffic, dogs, plastic bags, plywood, anything! I am guessing it is partly from his former days as a halter horse and in-hand trail horse. So a few days ago, I had some shoes put on him, since I have been driving him at LEAST 20 miles a week. I was afraid his hooves would just wear too fast and cause problems. Anyways, I had some small borium bits welded to his heels so he would not slip out on the road.

SO now for the confusing part. I took off driving and was about 4 miles from home. He was being completely normal and quiet as usual. Then on the way back, something happened. There were animals trotting around but they had already passed us and were far off. All of the sudden he just took off as fast as his little legs could go at a dead run! After a few seconds (seemed forever) of pulling and telling him "easy" and "whoa" I realized that he was terrified and my reins were scaring him more. I let off the reins for a second, attempted to relax and more confidently and less startled, I told him "whoa" again. He came back to me slowly, but he was shaking all over and freaked out of his mind. I checked out all of his tack, looked for rubs and anything else I could think of. Nothing. I walked him for awhile and then tried to drive him again. We got a little ways down the road, walking and he was okay...I would not say fine. So I thought that I would ask him to trot again. He shot off again, but not as far. Now I am 4 miles away and thinking about what could possibly be going on. The only thing I had changed this time (besides shoes) was I had lowered the shaves one hole. I raised them back, just in case, sense everything else was the same. I checked his feet, shoes, legs, girth, crupper. All was fine? I am driving him in a Comfy Fit harness and it is what I have always driven him in.

Some other information...earlier when I was trying to get him to move over so I could line the shaves up with him, he was pushing into my hand and about to sit down...sideways. I wrote it off, because he is kind of weird/nervous at times when I touch him sometimes. He has a lot of Hackney in him and I have been told that it is common with them to be nervous about stuff. Muffy Seaton even commented during a lesson, "It must be very exhausting to be this tense all the time." So as I was leading him home, he would be walking along and then all of the sudden he would just freeze, get really tense, lean his rear to the right and then shoot forward. I really think he is scaring himself. I THINK what is going on is he gets nervous about something...then he gets tense. The tension in his haunches puts pressure on his breeching holders and the more he tenses, the more the pressure. Then he bends his rear into his own tension and bumps himself with the shaft and it startles him and he shoots forward. Not sure why it would be all of the sudden. I have been going over it repeatedly and I can't believe that he would react like this after driving for so long!

On a positive note, I have a new respect for these driving equines. I realize that I have been way to lax with my safety measures from driving such laid back minis. I am glad I was wearing my boot, jeans, and a sweatshirt with a cell phone. I will be using my helmet from now on. I understand why the mounting the carriage/cart procedures are suggested as they are! I am glad my harness and cart are in good working order! I ended up walking 98% of the four miles home. It ended up being after dark as I had planned on a lot less stopping and walking. My gloves were helpful for sure! I am just really glad that he was running slower than my angels were flying that evening. I did end up back in the cart, walking, trotting and whoaing at the very end before I got home.

Tomorrow I will drive him again, but will give him a few mins in the round pen to get his sillies out. I will also be sticking closer to home and carry a charged cell phone and be wearing all the appropriate protective gear. I might even break out my Tipperary vest!

Any suggestions? Oh and I have no one here to help and never had anyone. If I had to, I would have dropped the cart and called for someone to pick us up. It won't be as bad next time, because I am sticking way close to home. I can not drive at home except on my 1/4 mile driveway. It is like driving on the beach that has not been wet for a LONG time...darn drought!

Thanks!

Karen

 

[maggiemae]

I don't really have any advice but I have one that did something very similar to this three weekends ago so I will be following this thread. I hope some of the driving experts on here will chime in. He is a shetland as well. After this happened I sent him off to a trainer. We got into a cart wreck and he may never drive again. We were not so fortunate as to be on a road where he could just run forward until I could get him calmed back down enough to listen. He was paniced and nothing I did or said would get his attention - he just went flat out in a dead run for a couple of minutes before the deep drainage ditch which he could see - he just hit it at a dead run. If I hadn't been in a well made cart with a well cared for camptown harness it could have been a lot worse. We were on a dirt road in a tree nursery - there was nothing I could see that would cause this - I had doubled checked the whole harness for his fit and comfort.. He had been driving fine before that but like your's he had been a little nervous on the ground at times as well, but once hitched he seemed fine. I don't really know what spooked him into bolting. Now I'm afraid to drive him. The man I got him from had been driving him for at least two years. It is a scary thing.

 

[shelterwood]

Karen,

My two year old mare, who has been lightly hitched a few times, seems to have developed the same thing your describing, minus the bolting. She has become very sensitive to the breeching, and does the same hop hop you are describing. It's a vicious cycle: the breeching bumps her, she jumps forward, it bumps her harder, she jumps forward harder etc. One thing I did was to lower the breeching one hole, just in case it was simply too high up her rump for her liking. Not sure if it has helped much, but last time I ground drove her she was better. What you have described is much scarier, and perhaps not an easy fix as lowering a harness part, but you never know. It is a good reminder to all of us that we walk a fine line when we are out with our animals alone (I am mostly too), and that we should be taking every possible safety precaution. So glad you made it home OK.

Katie

 

[targetsmom]

OK, a very different approach here - WHAT KIND OF ANIMALS DID YOU SEE??? The reason I ask this, is that once I was riding my calm trail horse through the woods and we came across some deer. No problem, he had seen deer all the time, and was only a bit startled as they took off next to him. But a few moments later as we crossed the section of trail they had just run across, he started to get very nervous and spooky - VERY unlike his normal self. What I realized was that he was reacting to the smell of FEAR from the dear that he had startled as they ran across this section of trail. Could that have happened to you???

Remember that a horse's sense of smell is very strong and they can tell when PEOPLE are afraid. That was not the first time I had seen that reaction but it was the most obvious. One other time he reacted like that, although I never saw a thing. He turned and was ready to bolt back to the barn (but settled for a nervous "passage") and screamed a warning to his buddies. Once he got what he felt was a safe distance from the danger, he immediately calmed down and walked quietly the rest of the way home. We figured a bear was chasing something (he wasn't especially afraid of a bear) and he smelled the fear of whatever the bear was after. I don't think there is much you can do to "fix" this, as it a natural instinct for preservation.

 

[Marsha Cassada]

That is very scary indeed!!

There used to be a buffalo ranch near me. I could never get my horse to go down that wonderful, perfect-for-driving road. The buffalo were half a mile away--I couldn't even SEE them. But he would not go down that road. I can only assume it was the buffalo he didn't like, as there were no other unusual things there. The buffalo are gone and we use that road frequently now. We were fairly new to driving then. As a seasoned harness horse now I'm not sure what he would do.

He was terrified of a very large pot bellied pig being walked in the park recently and I think if he had been "green" he would have bolted. As it was, we left the pig's presence as quickly as we safely could.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

First off, thank god you are OK and I cannot think of one thing you did "wrong" or that I would have done differently (except I do think I probably would have sat at the side of the road and had a good cry, but maybe not till I got home? I don't know it is many years since I have been in a runaway cart and I do not intend it to happen again in this lifetime!

I would not suggest this lightly but I wonder if you should leave off the breeching till you have him sorted- would this be safe for you to do where you drive, obviously if there are hills it would not be.

The other thing I would suggest is taking a good look at the line of his blinkers- I have a horse I now have to drive in blinkers (I have never had this before so I am on a learning curve!) and exactly where the blinkers line up and exactly what he can see (if they are too low) is crucial (he is a baby) This might not have been a problem before the incident, with your boy, I have seen horses driving for years with the blinkers in entirely the wrong place, more hindrance than help, yet the horse did not mind and all was OK, NOW however, this could be an issue, so just put the bridle on and fiddle around with it to make sure, will you?

Hackneys have a reputation for being highly strung "Glamour" creatures, but they aren't. A little hot, maybe, but very intelligent.

Your chap has now scared himself and probably you (I do not blame you) so you need two things, firstly you need to be sure in your own mind that you are OK to get up behind him again (and I would ground drive him tomorrow) and secondly you need someone else with you, even if it is just moral support for the first time.

Whatever you decide please keep us up to date, we don't mind "ponies" this is not a "Minis only" forum, it is a driving Forum.

 

[Sandee]

I second what rabbitfizz said. The Modern Shetland has a good bit of Hackney blood. They are not as HOT as they appear but rather more jumpy in their own skin. My Modern Pleasure guy at age 5 (when we bought him) had really not been handled much. After one year of training and showing, I expected him to be as calm as my minis......WRONG! Last winter when he was here I literally had to chase him down in the STALL to get his halter on him and yet he would COME to me in the open pasture. The fear of being "enclosed" was the connection I did not make.

This year he is a whole different horse. He comes to the gate and waits for his halter. He is ready to run from the "get go" but one calm word "walk" and he stays by my side. It's almost like he has gained confidence in himself and therefore lost some of his fears. He is still a nervous horse and that may or may not change with time. I've seen Moderns larger than he trot and run with so much spirit and beauty and turn right around and let a 10 yr old lead them around with their head dropped down.

My mini mare does NOT like to be long lined because the line passes under her tail so the breeching might be the problem.

 

[brasstackminis]

OK, a very different approach here - WHAT KIND OF ANIMALS DID YOU SEE???

There were a few long horn cattle and a big bold trotting horse. I must also say that we had already driven past these guys on the way out. He had gotten a little tense but I had calmed him down. He was tense probably because he saw the big guy trotting around and he wanted to go faster too. I did see a deer later in all of this excitement and I walked him for awhile after that because he got riled up again. I mean I understand his hot-headedness. I have ridden and love my Arabians. Most of the time when they jump or spook I either laugh or ignore it and just encourage them to continue whatever we were doing. I really am at a loss. We shall see what happens today...

Karen

 

[MiLo Minis]

First, just because it is the cause of trouble with bitted horses about 90% of the time I have to ask, has he had his teeth checked recently?

Second, is it possible that he might have injured himself rolling or bucking in the paddock? If he has had shoes put on recently he could have slipped or even just taken a wrong step and put something slightly out of whack that is causing him to feel a sharp pain if he moves just so which could send him bolting similar to if he was stung by a bee. It is possible that he was not really spooking at anything and the appearance of the deer or whatever may have been strictly a coincidence. If it continues you may want to have a chiropractor take a look at him for you.

Third, how often do you drive him? Is it possible that he was just feeling fresh and foolish and using any little excuse to go for a run?

Lastly, had he ever been cantered in harness before? More often than not, the first time they canter in harness it freaks them a bit because of the different action of the cart as it rocks up and back and they usually do react. If he bolted originally because he was feeling frisky or startled by something he may well have extended the bolt due to the scary feeling of the cart.

Without being there to see exactly what happened these are all the possibilities I can think of off hand. You may have to wait and see if it happens again before you can actually put your finger on what caused it.

 

[hobbyhorse23]

Hi there. Sorry it's taken me so long to reply to this, I've been away from my computer and didn't want to try and respond on a cell phone.

I think many drivers have had one of those inexplicable sudden bolts (I know I have!) and they are just about the scariest thing!

There's nothing quite as nerve-wracking as not knowing what caused it because then you don't know when it's going to happen again.

I don't have any magic answers for why he did it but agree with MiLo that sudden nerve pain or twinging pain in his own body could have caused it. A surge of fear through the herd of animals could have caused it. Something could have spooked him then the feel of the breeching or the new shoes grabbing pavement suddenly could have caused him to panic. It's hard to know!

You asked for suggestions however and a few things did jump out at me.

All of the sudden he just took off as fast as his little legs could go at a dead run! After a few seconds (seemed forever) of pulling and telling him "easy" and "whoa" I realized that he was terrified and my reins were scaring him more. I let off the reins for a second, attempted to relax and more confidently and less startled, I told him "whoa" again. He came back to me slowly, but he was shaking all over and freaked out of his mind.

First of all, good job on realizing so quickly that the hold you had on his mouth was only panicking him further. The best way to get a bolting horse to slow is to let him run for a moment then use alternating rein pressure to ask him to soften and focus and begin trying to steer him. Once you get them steering their brains generally come back online and they'll slow down.

I checked out all of his tack, looked for rubs and anything else I could think of. Nothing.

Absolutely right. Check for rubs, pinches, areas of tweaked hair, anything damaged or loosened by the accident as well as what might have caused it.

I walked him for awhile and then tried to drive him again. We got a little ways down the road, walking and he was okay...I would not say fine. So I thought that I would ask him to trot again. He shot off again, but not as far.

This is the first place I would have done something different. When your horse is "freaked out of his mind," do not push your luck! I've seen people do this so many times and it almost always backfires. Sure you want them to pay attention and do as you ask before the end of the drive, but is it worth pushing an already on-the-edge horse who hasn't really settled yet? Walk. Walk fast, walk slow, walk serpentines, stop and then walk again, but walk. Walk until he takes a deep breathe and sighs and stretches his topline. THEN you can try trotting again although I'd advise quitting while you're ahead after a few calm strides.

Some other information...earlier when I was trying to get him to move over so I could line the shaves up with him, he was pushing into my hand and about to sit down...sideways. I wrote it off, because he is kind of weird/nervous at times when I touch him sometimes. He has a lot of Hackney in him and I have been told that it is common with them to be nervous about stuff. Muffy Seaton even commented during a lesson, "It must be very exhausting to be this tense all the time."

I'm not intending this comment for you specifically, Karen, but because I've seen an awful lot of posts on here recently where people have been taking a tense horse and going to the next step either in-hand, on long-lines or in harness and I think it bears saying. Tension is a warning sign. It means the horse has concerns, either fear-based or anxiety-based, and those concerns need to be addressed before you can safely go on. I understand completely where you were coming from and have been there myself (writing off some oddity of behavior from a well-schooled horse that I realized later was a warning sign) but with a horse who is perpetually tense like that, the training really needs to emphasize relaxation. Not just relaxation when he feels like it but relaxation at your request. When walking he needs to know that if you feed rein, he should stretch forward in search of the contact and set his back to swinging. Every trot should be followed by a free walk with swinging back. His "go to" mode should be head lowered, reaching and relaxed! When he starts getting tense and rattled you can then put him back to those basic relaxation exercises, bending and stretching and yielding, and it should give him a sort of touch-stone for "everything's alright, Mom says so" that he can rely on. He doesn't have to think- you've told him it's okay and that's all he needs to know. That's a heavy load off a nervous horse!

The biggest lesson your scary experience can teach us (besides wearing our helmets and following the safety rules, as you said!) is not to underestimate the importance of a horse who is telling us he's anxious about something. I don't have a lot of experience with tense, high-octane horses but my colt was very reactive in his hindquarters and still is to some extent. Mostly I've just let him grow up (and thankfully grow out of it!) but I've also spent a LOT of time desensitizing him and building his confidence and teaching him what the correct reaction is when he's upset. I knew if I didn't go slow at the start and make sure he was really, truly okay with each step of his training I was going to pay for it later. That's just the sort of personality he has even though he's a natural who loves driving! Someday he was going to get ticked off and react to something and then we'd be in a fix as he panicked and discovered the gaps in his training. You've taken plenty of time with your guy and exposed him to many things but it sounds like you haven't put a lot of focus on reducing his perpetual tension and maybe that's something that would be helpful at this point. Just a thought.

I ended up walking 98% of the four miles home. It ended up being after dark as I had planned on a lot less stopping and walking. My gloves were helpful for sure! I am just really glad that he was running slower than my angels were flying that evening. I did end up back in the cart, walking, trotting and whoaing at the very end before I got home.

I'm glad you ended on a good note but I think the first time he stayed tense after walking on I would have gotten out, unhitched if I possibly could, and ground-driven him home. You can always come back later with a truck and pick up the cart! Leading a panicky horse four miles home while hitched is a dangerous proposition for both you and him and could have ended quite badly. I might have had to do walking serpentines all the way home but if he wouldn't stand for unhitching I think that's what I probably would have done. That or used my cell to call someone to come meet me on the road and help me get unhitched ASAP! I can't imagine how upset you both must have been by this whole thing. What a tough time!

Leia

 

[brasstackminis]

Leia,

Thanks for your input. I agree that he needs (probably always will need) more and more relaxation practice. If you had seen him when I first got him...well he seems pretty calm now! LOL He tolerates me putting his bridle on and off. He hates his ears messed with.

I mean, I never thought that I would ever see the day (which was today actuallly) when I could walk into his stall with his door open and he would just stand there, move out of my way and hang out with me. Usually he leave the stall as fast as he can with a little buck. I think he might be flipping me the bird!

We are finally getting an understanding. I pet on him all the time, even when he acts like I am killing him. He is finally beginning to trust me. I am not sure if he has ever gotten to that point before with another owner.

Hindsight is 20/20 for sure and I stood for a long time on the side of the road contemplating who I should/could call, if I should keep on or give it up for the night. I decided to try walking again. And I guess I pushed my luck too early on in the sequence because I saw the daylight slipping away... stupid daylight savings time thing! I led him home with the cart, but not without several jabs in the back with the cart. I guess I was hopeful that somewhere during the 4 miles home (before 3.999th mile) he would be ok and have calmed down. Since this is a first for me (with him and in general) I was really expecting him to come down off of his nervous high sooner.

I hope that there is not any new pains or twinges (I really doubt it but it is something I have been considering amongst other things) but if we have another issue (I haven't driven him again yet) I will be dragging him to the Chiro vet next month. I hope he either does it again soon so I can deal with it, or never does it again! I really don't want a horse that randomly leaves the country, but is normally good. I like a little more predictability!

I took him to the Chiropracter before, when I started with him and the bridle stuff, just to make sure he didn't have a reason to think I might want to eat his ears. The vet assured me he just had a severe phobia. It makes me agry when I know that the reason for it is almost assuredly due to the fact that he was a halter pony first, and many trainers neglect to train these smaller equines about clipping and just grab and/or twitch and do it.

I think that he is just trying to help keep me humble! I need to remember how dangerous horse sports are! I am getting ready to start really training my 13.2 hh pony pair. I think I am just being reminded to not get too lax...gonna need that lesson for the buckskin ponies for sure!

Karen

 

[rabbitsfizz]

It is probably a throwback to the Welsh blood in AmShets- Welsh are the worst in the world for ears, and Hackneys are just souped up Welsh, anyway!

Have you ever considered a Donkey bridle- the buckle is between the ears, like a show halter- Big Ears do not appreciate their ears folded into head pieces!! It might make more sense to little Mr Fussy Ears!

 

[brasstackminis]

It is probably a throwback to the Welsh blood in AmShets- Welsh are the worst in the world for ears, and Hackneys are just souped up Welsh, anyway!

Have you ever considered a Donkey bridle- the buckle is between the ears, like a show halter- Big Ears do not appreciate their ears folded into head pieces!! It might make more sense to little Mr Fussy Ears!

I have thought about the donkey bridle, but it probably wouldn't help...he is not even really cool with undoing the throatlatch. LOL

So I have just been using the stays for the blinkers and I grab them and wait for him to give up ...then I pull it off. He still fusses, but I ignore him because it is working the best right now. He is soooo much calmer than when I started with him. I mean he used to get as stiff as a board when I brushed him...ANYWHERE! Now I can pet him and scratch him and he stays relaxed...usually. When he gets a little tense, I have been telling him to "reeeeelaaaaax" and gently putting pressure on his halter to put his head down. Slowly but surely he is getting it! He is really smart!

 

[brasstackminis]

OK so I drove Starbuck today...here's what I did:

First I lounged him. Probably for only 5 mins or so, not to work him to death or wear him out, but to reinstill the "walk, trot, woah" and get him into work mode. It also gives him the opportuntiy to kick up and then relax out of my range of fire.

Then I brushed on him and kept reiterating "reeeeeelaaaax" and him putting his head down and relaxing his neck/brain.

I decided that he needed some training on moving OFF of pressure, so I worked on that...reminding him to keep relaxed and his head down. It was amazing how much this helped him to think...having his head down. Since he was caught pushing into the pressure when he was scaring himself.

Then I pulled out the tack...goof ball tensed up.

So more head down and "reeeeelaaaax". I put the harness, minus the bridle on and repeated the moving away from pressure relaxed again. I was looking at the fit of the harness and was attempting to get my shaft loops to hang straight. (Something I had been wanting to do but kept putting it off) Well I started thinking about how they were hanging and that maybe the backstrap was pulling on the saddle too much. So I started to adjust the crupper/backstrap. I loosened it 5-6 holes when all of the sudden he tensed up and I realized how tight the crupper/backstrap was when he was tense! It may hang an inch below the dock of his tail when he is relaxed, but when he is scared it is markedly tighter! EUREKA!

So I drove him off and I can tell that he has lost a bit of his confidence, but he still knows what to do. I went down the road, mostly at a walk, making shallow-loop serpentines and pivots as well as lots of transitions. Oh and I rediscovered my half-halt...Not sure where I hid it!

He was really good...only slightly nervy, but his transitions were probably the best he has even done! (Probably something to do with my half-halts!) He was probably a little more on edge because I was a bit on edge too. I was singing to myself and him so that we were calmer. I had my helmet, gloves, and called a friend to tell her where I was going to be, in case someone needed to come and scrap me off the road!

It was a short but very good drive and I am happy to report that there were no more runaway runaways!