Pot/Hay Belly? *PICTURES ADDED ON SECOND PAGE*

[wingnut]

I've been re-reading a bunch of threads this morning. Something jumped out at me and I'm trying to figure out why this might be the case.

I read that when someone fed their weanling MORE Equine Jr. (which I'm understanding is a pelleted/complete feed?) that hay/pot/weanling belly went away. When I compare the stats of the Equine Jr. vs. Omolene 300 (i.e., protein/fat/fiber) they are relatively the same. What is different about these two products that would make the belly go away? Would the same be the case with the Omolene or would they just get fat?

I've also read here many times that there are die-hard "NO SWEET FEED!" people. Can someone explain to me their stance on this?

We only have 4 girls, ranging in age from weanling (7 and 8 months) to 2 yr old (in April) to our 11 yr old (in April) hard keeper. Each one seems to have their own "issue".

The almost 2 yr old gains weight just looking at food. She's on Purina's Wellsolve Weight Control. I like what that's doing for her. Even with her fuzzy winter yak coat, she gleams. Her belly is not quite as large and it's not a "pot" or "hay" belly. She will stay on the Wellsolve.

Both weanlings are fed the Omolene 300 (1/2lb - 2x day). I use a specialized measuring cup that marks weight by pound and I've verified it's accuracy with a scale for all the feeds we use. Both had the "pot" or "hay" belly until the youngest colic'd last month. She lost the belly from that and hasn't regained it in 4 weeks since that episode.

The other weanling has a pretty sizeable pot/hay belly. We've had her since August and she's wormed monthly. I alternate between Ivermectin with SafeGuard or Strongid.

They all get fed free-choice orchard grass/timothy hay right now to help them maintain their body heat. That'll get backed down once warm weather comes.

I'm really not looking to switch feeds with them but the pot/belly stuff is driving me crazy

But not as crazy as the hard keeper but I won't go into that today

I guess it would help to take a couple of current photos of this weanling and share to see if what I'm calling a "pot/hay belly" is just chubby.

 

[Miniv]

It's hard to say without pictures........It's also hard to determine what's going on without doing the "Touch Test" through their winter coats.

If a horse does actually have a POT BELLY, and it's not worms.... it usually means you need to up the protein in their diet and cut back on any "filler forage" you may be giving them. Both grains you mentioned should have adequate protein. So, when the weather begins warming up, you may want to begin cutting back on the hay. The cutting back on hay PLUS EXERCISE will help a lot.

Regarding Sweet Feed....... We don't feed it because it doesn't give our horses the nutrients that I want to be giving when I am feeding grain. Plus it gives them an unnecessary sugar high.

 

[Katiean]

I had an arab that if I gave him Alfalfa hay he got a hay belly. If I gave him alfalfa cubes the hay belly went away. His work schedule had nothing to do with his belly. It was just the hay he got or didn't get. He also got a mixed feed that was comparable to omolene. Maybe this horse was just strange.

 

[HGFarm]

The Equine Jr. is a complete feed.... Omolene is just souped up sweet feed, and I agree, can make them higher than a kite. I feed hay AND Jr. to my youngsters and they do great... sometimes it is also a growing spurt- some of my foals go through a horribly chubby stage, and then after a couple of months it disappears and they go back to normal.....

 

[WhiteTailsMinis]

Hey Joy -

We feed our weanlings & yearlings Purina Equine Junior. Our '09 foals turning a year old this spring have no hay bellies - and they do eat hay - they are furry but don't see the hay belly that we normally fear. Few of them actually had more of a belly just coming off momma than they do now.

This is our first foal crop on Equine Junior ('09 foals) as our local TSC switched from Dumor to Purina so we switched for convenience and ease of shopping. We used to feed the Dumor Mare & Foal 16% with good results as well. I also noticed bellies thin out when they went to their own pasture and get plenty of exercise playing and running in a big area.

I agree with the other post that with all that winter fur you might be seeing more than what's really there and worrying more than you need to.

 

[~Lisa~]

A complete feed is not always the answer and there is no one way to feed a horse. IN fact I have 9 minis here and 2 ponies and several different grains and feeding programs. I would love for them to all fit into a one feed fits all but it just doesnt work that way here.

I do not feed any form of complete feed since it has beet pulp in it and I already feed beet pulp no need to feed it twice. My babies have always gotten a good vitamen- soaked beet pulp- oats and at least 50 percent alfalfa hay and I am very pleased with how they have all looked.

I am currently feeding sweet feed to several well no actually all now I switched to a steamed oat/molasses feed from whole oats and the ponies and a couple minis are getting race ready and I am pleased with the results.

We have an aged 13.3 hand pony she does horrible on any complete feed and does best on safe choice. Not sure why just what works for her so no simple answer other then often in young horses what appears to be a pot belly often is just a need for more protien

 

[wingnut]

Thanks for the feedback so far.

It is always appreciated.

Of all my girls, the one (Baby) with the belly has the longest hair...so it may be making things look worse than they are. I don't plan to make any changes for now...don't want to mess with it during the winter. Everybody but the hardkeeper is withstanding the cold quite well and I don't want to change that. Come spring, we'll evaluate where we stand. Is Spring really that far away, still? ::::sigh::::

Marlene: Once your '09 foals become yearlings, what will you move to or will they continue on the Equine Jr.?

Lisa: I hear you! We're feeding 3 different feeds to 4 horses. And I'm adding a biotin supplement for their hooves and the hardkeeper is getting a weight supplement. I don't have a problem with it...but it does make it hard for my hubby and kids to keep up (and take their turn!).

 

[WhiteTailsMinis]

A complete feed is not always the answer and there is no one way to feed a horse. IN fact I have 9 minis here and 2 ponies and several different grains and feeding programs. I would love for them to all fit into a one feed fits all but it just doesnt work that way here.
I do not feed any form of complete feed since it has beet pulp in it and I already feed beet pulp no need to feed it twice. My babies have always gotten a good vitamen- soaked beet pulp- oats and at least 50 percent alfalfa hay and I am very pleased with how they have all looked.

I am currently feeding sweet feed to several well no actually all now I switched to a steamed oat/molasses feed from whole oats and the ponies and a couple minis are getting race ready and I am pleased with the results.

We have an aged 13.3 hand pony she does horrible on any complete feed and does best on safe choice. Not sure why just what works for her so no simple answer other then often in young horses what appears to be a pot belly often is just a need for more protien

well said and yes I agree - we too feed several kinds of feed here as well based on the invidividual needs. Our choices in feeds are also based on the age group, bred or not bred, growing bones etc. While we do have a variety of feeds for individual group needs - with 56 horses we don't want to buy a dozen different brands. As it is, no one can help feed because it's so varied.

I guess I was answering based on her asking who used Equine Jr. and we do. LOL and we like it. We feed it only to weanlings up to 2 yrs old. Others get different and we too feed sweet to some groups mixed with oats - some oats only.

We keep free choice minerals available as well and some have free choice hay (others get it only at feeding time).

We do not feed beet pulp seperately - ever - and we don't top dress with all kinds of supplements either - so we like the complete feeds because it contains all those things without all the extra labor or expense.

 

[JMS Miniatures]

I have had a couple of experiences where feeding Omolene 300 wasn't enough for hard keeper weanlings. They had the pot belly look so I gave them Jr. and it really seemed to help alot. However eversince Purina has changed the forumlas I have switched from Purina to Kent and Kent Junior feed is awesome and was really put to the test on a yearling we had, amazing on a short time how much of a difference it was.

Also good worming program is an important factor too. Never had a problem personally with a foal that was born here or even a yearling to keep they pot belly away.

 

[Leeana]

I fed Omolene 300 to the weanlings for some time, results were not bad but I was not impressed either. I'm not a fan of "Complete feeds" as I don't think they are as Complete as you would think...

Strategy is what the babies, coming yearlings, are on right now and I can honestly say that I am thrilled with how they look.

 

[Ellen]

Well, what concerns me about Equine Jr is that it is only 14.5% protien. Omolene is as some one said a finer sweetfeed. If you feed strategy and add some ricebarn and minerals, you can up their protien intake, as Strategy is 14% protien and IMHO, it is best to keep babies and broodmares at 16% wether you buy 16% pellet of top dress it.

ADM Jr is great, Triple Crown Jr is great......so, there a lot of other brands that will do aswell.

 

[~Lisa~]

Ellen wouldnt you need to count the protien from your hay source as well as what they are getting in their grain?

 

[muffntuf]

The other weanling has a pretty sizeable pot/hay belly. We've had her since August and she's wormed monthly. I alternate between Ivermectin with SafeGuard or Strongid.

First question I have is do they eat together and is this one low man on the totem pole? If so, separate. Next I would recommend a 5 day de-wormer with safeguard, just in case. Just because you de-worm monthly, this one might need a 5 day regime for a one time over. Why? Just because. I have a 9 month old who came in with super long hair, and absolutely no fat and huge huge pot belly. I de-wormed after a few days of settling down and then again 2 weeks later with the 5 day and then again 2 weeks later to put her on the real schedule. So I am sure we are clear. BUT she still had the pot belly, which means she was severely malnourished. So I build her up on ADM Jr. Glo which is 19% protein. Extreme yes, but she has been here since the week before Halloween and she is just starting to look normal.

It's a long road when they get that pulled down. I would highly recommend bringing her protein up and giving her more grain for awhile. Evaluate in a couple weeks to see her condition. Once you are happy with where she is at, start bringing her back down. But feed her feed separately and make sure there is a hay pile that she can get to without the others. I spread hay in 8 different piles for my 6 weanlings. I have watched to make sure she can get to a pile be herself.

She is just now being more assertive.

Hope this helps.

 

[disneyhorse]

If you don't want to feed more grain, you can also play around with the alfalfa in their diet. I am not a fan of straight-alfalfa diets, but I feel that alfalfa adds some good level of protein and minerals into the balance. I do like the Equine Junior or Purina Strategy for grains for youngsters.

Also, I don't know why, but adding a daily dewormer (I prefer Strongid C 2x) to youngsters' diets really helps cut down on the pot belly, too. I paste deworm on top of that every eight weeks as well.

Andrea

 

[Ellen]

Lisa,

Yes, I should have mentioned that good orchard grass hay is what we are feeding. Alfalfa is hard to come by for us. I reserve it for broodmares, but still keep them on Strategy ...but no top dress.

I used to swear by Equine Jr. But after speaking with the Purina Reps it is just easier to stick with one feed. Strategy in there opinion was the way to go.

And I guess if you are blessed with alfalfa, 14% is ok. But as I said with Grass, I like to keep it at 16%. Most mare and foal feeds are 16%. And I always stick with pellets.

Ellen

 

[Tenltraining]

I think normally when you see the potbelly on a young one like that, they need more grain and quality protein. Sometimes they look really fat but then are mostly hair and belly, but not enough weight on top. When a foal is weaned they are no longer getting quality protein from their moms and their bodies are growing and needing more as they grow. We have had babies get a little too fat overall, especially around the shoulders and crest on the Omelene 300 although its a good feed. Weve have better luck on strategy and also feed a good quality alfalfa mix hay, they are up on their pasterns good and have good weight throughout without being too fat. Their necks look good too.

 

[Minimor]

I generally feed a 14% pellet, when I feed pellets--I use the Frontrunner pellets, and their 16% Phase One foal ration has such a strong anise smell that some of the horses don't care for it & won't eat it--especially when I open a new bag and the smell is stronger. The 14% is still a good pellet, and it contains brewers yeast, which I believe has something to do with its effectiveness in eliminating a pot belly. I've gotten in foals that were newly weaned and because of that they had dropped weight & developed a pot belly--and just 2-3 weeks after being put on the Phase 2 pellets (mixed with oats, usually half & half, or 2/3 oats to 1/3 pellets) the belly was shrinking and the weanling was putting weight on his topline. We do feed an alfalfa mix hay to those same babies. but I've done it both ways--hay only, and hay combined with the 14%/oats ration. The hay only diet takes longer to put weight on, and won't totally eliminate the belly.

At one time we used to add brewers yeast into our grain--now with it already in the Phase 2 pellets we don't have to bother with that.

 

[wingnut]

All my girls are fed their grain separately. We wait the 20 minutes or so it takes them to eat to be sure each one gets to eat their own serving with no help from anyone else. And we spread the hay out in 3 different areas (two in hay racks in separated stalls in our converted run-in) and another pile of hay in the paddock. We watch them quite closely and I'm positive she's getting all the hay she wants. She is low man but she hold her own out there

The Omolene 300 has 16% protein according to the bag label. And I just reread the feeding sheet for minis and I see that we should have increased the two girls from 1lb per to almost 1.5 based on their weight. Hmmm....looks like I might have been under feeding?

I think I'll also do the 5 day worming as recommended by muffntuff. Here are a couple of pics from this morning. Not great but maybe shows a little what we're seeing?

Her legs don't normally looked "splayed" like they do here.

 

[wantminimore]

Also, I don't know why, but adding a daily dewormer (I prefer Strongid C 2x) to youngsters' diets really helps cut down on the pot belly, too. I paste deworm on top of that every eight weeks as well.Andrea

I agree with adding the daily dewormer, it worked with one of mine.

 

[Marty]

Hi Wing.

OK what first grabbed my attention was this:

Both weanlings are fed the Omolene 300 (1/2lb - 2x day).

I have never fed my weaners so little food.

Next, I was all shocked because my baby weaner Redneck colt looked like he swallowed a basket ball at the beginning of winter. Talk about a belly oh my gosh. This was incredible and especially showed up on him really bad because he is short backed and ultra fine boned. But no way would I lower his food or cut his hay as he needed it. It it shrinking now considerably and I haven't changed a thing. I do think that after a 5 day go round with Safeguard they do deflate somewhat. In hindsight, I am thinking that besides the cold weather, it also takes a while after the weaning process and stop nursing off his mama for things to level out and adjust inside. I'm going to let it play out naturally. By the way, he gets Strategy twice a day plus beet pulp mash for lunch and plenty of hay. As TenL said, we are not getting cresty or necky either and also, he was up perfectly on his pasturns as well from the get-go just like she said. The only sweet feed I have on the place is now is Equine Sr. which my 27 year young quarter horse requires. I would not feed sweet feed to anyone else. Not a fan of it any more at all.

I'm also not a fan of overworming either. Lets face it, the stuff is poison so I keep to a strict schedule and that does the trick.

Good luck and best wishes to ya.