"Maximum Expression" Pintos

[rabbitsfizz]

The mares mother is Sabino...that sab1 test is pointless IMO!!!

The mare is heavy Sabino on Black, but she really does look Grey, why anyone who register her as Roan is beyond me!!

 

[Becky]

While I understand the registries' need to list a horses phenotype on it's registration papers, it sure would be a plus to list it's genotype as well if known. Since genetic testing is so readily available, many breeders are taking advantage and color testing their horses as well as pattern testing their pintos. It would be so beneficial to breeders to have an accurate color description on a horses' registration papers!

Here is a 2008 filly of mine. Redrock Just Magic. She is solid white in appearance with a few black hairs in her tail. She is a black tobiano/splashed white/sabino pinto. She is lab tested to be black (Ee) and negative for agouti (aa). Her sire is my chestnut homozygous tobiano (also carries sabino and probably splash), Redrock Magic Maker and her dam is Redrock Little Blossom who is black with a bald face, dark eyes, hind socks and a belly spot.

I requested that she be registered as a black pinto which AMHR did - I'm still waiting on her AMHA papers.

Redrock Little Blossom has also produced 2 more 'white' horses. One was a colt with two red lip moustaches and a white body. AMHA registered him as a cremello (which genetically is impossible from that cross!). The colt would have been bay as the dam is homozygous for black and the sire is chestnut tobiano/splashed who carries agouti. She also produced a completely solid white filly with not a speck of color on her anywhere by another chestnut sabino stallion. That filly was lab tested to be black. She is registered as white.

 

[normajeanbaker]

I have never had her color tested, but everyone was leaning towards Maximum Expression when I posted her photo's awhile back asking what color she was. I do plan to have her color tested. She has a partial blue eye and a spot the size of a quarter on her right cheek that is liver chestnut in color. Her baby she had came out with a blaze and blue eye and was by a solid colored stallion with no blue eyes. So, I'd like to have this mare color tested just out of curiosity. This mares dam was a spalsh Overo. ~Jen~

You can see the spot on her cheek in the photo below(taken after a year of doing nothing but being a mom and eating and before getting back into show shape ;o)

 

[NC Roses]

Sharing pics of Echos Paco Spirit King,our Jr stallion. He was born with a black (smokey) medicine hat and tail, now is completely white. His sire is actually a perlino, Ten ls Spirit Afterglow, and his dam a black tovero, who has also gone white, she also has appy mottling on muzzle and eyes. Last pic is Spirit as a foal before he turned white.We are excited about his future foals!

 

[Joanne]

Jen your mare has several color genes, but one is certainly sabino. Beautiful mascara !

NC Roses I have to ask if the dam, sire, or both are carrying the grey gene ???

 

[NC Roses]

Jen your mare has several color genes, but one is certainly sabino. Beautiful mascara !


NC Roses I have to ask if the dam, sire, or both are carrying the grey gene ???

well his sire is perlino, and his dams sire is reg black pinto, her dam solid black. If grey, it must come from her side. I "guessed" Spirits color as a maxium expressed smokey black medicine hat tovero, or overo. I plan on getting some tests done to verify, will now add grey to the list

so I'm sure,as now i'm confused!

 

[mysticalpark]

I'm sorry Rabbit, but Mabel is coming to MO! Milo doesn't know it yet, but the trailer's on the way!

Wowzer, she's darn near perfection!!

I certainly "settle" for that level of perfection anytime.

I'm sure Mabel wouldn't mind coming over and seeing sunny australia LOL....... she sure is a stunning girl

Nicky

 

[MiLo Minis]

I'm sure Mabel wouldn't mind coming over and seeing sunny australia LOL....... she sure is a stunning girl

Nicky

Could I deliver her in person Nicky? I have always wanted to see Australia!

Thanks for all your lovely compliments on our wee girlie - I am very proud of her and expect she should do well in the show ring. REALLY looking forward to cleaning all that white

 

[Margo_C-T]

Very interesting thread; love these kind of productive discussions!

Joanne, I have a gelding I raised who looks almost EXACTLY like the mare you pictured! Even though he is also unquestionably heavy sabino on BLACK, he looked like a light dun when foaled, and you could NOT tell he had anything but a facial marking; I even clipped down his legs before I sent his applications in, and STILL couldn't see the leg markings--yet he has the high white on one hind, with the 'point' in front, white 'spots' on two of his legs, below the knee/hock, a bald face, and white down onto the lower lip; a bit of mottling under his tail and on his muzzle, and a sizable spot of pink skin on his penis. He is darker in winter, lighter in summer, but 'roaned' tip to tail, including mane and tail, though the mane contains more dark hairs. Believe me, he and your mare would be candidates for a WELL-matched pair(unless your mare has body spotting on her OTHER side; he is definitely NOT a tobi! AMHA registered him as a 'dun roan', despite my correction on his leg markings, they ignored my efforts to describe his actual body color accurately.

His dam is DEFINITELY carrying sabino, and perhaps, splash--she would not qualify for any 'pinto' registry, though--she has a BIG bald face w/white onto the lower lip, high white on one hind w/ 'point' in front, minimal white on both fronts--and one blue eye, one brownShe is a silver bay, yet is registered as a chestnut. His sire is Landrys Cowboy Del, a solid palomino, w/ no markings.

It is hugely frustrating to have the registries persist in their inaccuracies and mistakes in color/marking descriptions--majorly because it will be misleading to those researching pedigrees(now that we HAVE them, and they are 'becoming' reliable in OTHER ways!)in future.

Nice mare, BTW!

Margo

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Jen your mare has several color genes, but one is certainly sabino. Beautiful mascara !


NC Roses I have to ask if the dam, sire, or both are carrying the grey gene ???

OK, not picking on Joanne here but this is too good an example to pass by (sorry Joanne!!)

Sabino is NOT a colour gene it is a pattern.

ALL horses have ALL "colour genes" (Alleles) it is merely that some are "switched on" and some are "switched off"

OK, sorry to appear to be nit picking here but if we do not attempt to get it right, and eventually get it right, how can we shout at the Registries????

We really do need to stop talking about "Wild Colour" and start talking about "Wild Pattern"

 

[HGFarm]

OMG, I am still sitting here with my money in my hand waiting to buy a ticket to watch Rabbits have a fit! LOL I about fell out of my chair on that one... I already had my own visual, but you really added to it....

Normajeanbaker- lovely mare!!

Spirit appears to be a grayed out horse to me?

I also agree on the 'roan'. That is NOT a true roan by 'equine terminology' and by misregistering horses in another decade the registry ought to really be screwed up.

 

[Joanne]

Sorry Rabbitsfizz. You are of course quite right.

Sabino IS a pattern of white, as is frame, tobiano, and splash.

This is a hangover from the Paint Horse world where when they are born with no white, they are said to not have a bit of color on them!

Color to a pinto or paint horse person is WHITE.

It is also typical for a Paint Horse person to say that the mare over cooked the foal and burned it! Meaning again, NO White on them.

Hopefully this will give all of you at least a good chuckle and explain where the the horse people that dream in color are coming from.

 

[MiLo Minis]

Sorry Rabbitsfizz. You are of course quite right.
Sabino IS a pattern of white, as is frame, tobiano, and splash.

This is a hangover from the Paint Horse world where when they are born with no white, they are said to not have a bit of color on them!

Color to a pinto or paint horse person is WHITE.

It is also typical for a Paint Horse person to say that the mare over cooked the foal and burned it! Meaning again, NO White on them.

Hopefully this will give all of you at least a good chuckle and explain where the the horse people that dream in color are coming from.

I have to say that "Conformation in a PATTERNful package" just doesn't sound right???

Guess you are going to have to change your slogan to a "patterned package"!

 

[rabbitsfizz]

How about "Loads of Pattern"??

Pattern perfect??

A Pattern of Perfection......????

 

[mysticalpark]

I'm sure Mabel wouldn't mind coming over and seeing sunny australia LOL....... she sure is a stunning girl

Nicky

Could I deliver her in person Nicky? I have always wanted to see Australia!

Thanks for all your lovely compliments on our wee girlie - I am very proud of her and expect she should do well in the show ring. REALLY looking forward to cleaning all that white

You bring that gorgeous girl over here and you can stay as long as you want and I'll be your personal tour guide lol.........