Height measurment 33 3/4 - 34 3/4 AMHR shows

[Aggravation Acres]

I don't know if I will get many answers but here goes.

First show in spring horse measured 33 3/4, the person doing the measureing is also a judge and he said that she was really shorter than that because I clipped too much hair off of her. The last show I showed at she measured 34 3/4 (was 63 days from the first show so had to get her remeasured). She turns 3 this year so I need to get her AMHR Papers permanent. She has not grown any since the first measurement.

So here is the question for you who have both AMHA/AMHR horses. Do any of you have horses with papers that AMHR shows as B at 34 1/4 And AMHA papers that state 34 inches.

I measure her at 34 but you all know how much the differances can be from different shows. And another thing that might affect the measurement. The farrier did her feet before the first show and I did them before the last show.

Another question. Horses that measure right at 34. and you have permanent papers saying A. You go to a show the next near and that horse measure 34 1/4. Will you be aloud to show in the B classes or be turned away because your horse does not match the paperwork?

Or should I give up on showing horses that are right at the border line in AMHR?

Thanks for your time an I hope I explained this right.

I have not shown a an AMHA show in the past 2 years so I am not up on how thier measurement have been going.

Deb

 

[dangerranger]

Ill be watching this as I have one whos right on the border between B mini and pony. DR.

Ill be watching this as I have one whos right on the border between B mini and pony. DR.

 

[Enchantress]

The only help I can give you is yes, they will let you show. I have an R mare listed as 33.50" on her papers which are permanent, I measure her at 35" with a winter foot and a little over with her slightly longer "show" foot. and she measured 34.50" at the first show (lousy measuring..on a hill etc etc) and her "true" height of 35.50" at Area 1. She showed as a B no problem. When I sent in my Nationals entries, I included her last measuring slip along with her papers so they don't think I just entered her in the wrong class. If it's a borderline horse, they'll get you in. It's amazing what they can do to change a height, just a simple weight shift or making sure the horse is 100% square or ever so slightly stretched. If you get 34" I'd send in her R papers as 34". I went to one A show where they measured my stud at 29.75", asked what I was aiming for to which I said, well I signed him up for 30-32, they remeasured him at 30" exactly.

I always get funny looks when the measurer asks what I'm aiming for and I say "whatever they actually measure today". :bgrin

 

[dannigirl]

I have one that is right on the borderline. He has been measure 34" many times, but sometimes it is 33.75 and sometimes it is as much as 34.75". I just go with what he measures at the time. Hope to get him at or below 34" at the nationals, but will show him over if I have to. I actually like them that size, so am willing to show him whereever he stands.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I find this thread both amazing and interesting at the same time.

There should be NO variation from show to show on an adult horse- if there is then there is something seriously wrong with the measuring (Well, now THERE'S a can of worms

)

I agree that foot paring and weight can make a slight, very slight if it is done properly, difference in height, but not a huge one.

Trimming manes etc is just another reason why the "last hair of the mane" thing does not work.

Trimming feet??

When it is done within the realms of acceptability- ie trimming to the correct length from slightly too long, I have found it makes, sometimes, around 1/4" difference, but then you would never take an up to height horse to a show untrimmed so it is irrelevant.

A horse measured to the withers - I expect and have found that a horse that is 34" one day, measured to the withers, standing properly, no messing around with "slight stretching" (we have very strict rules about that!!) will be 34" all year, no problem.

Stretching pulling trimming- I'm sorry but, as far as I am concerned this is all called "cheating"

Stand the horses up and measure their correct height and stop messing around.

Now, I am NOT "blaming" any of you getting your horses measured, I am laying any blame around squarely on the shoulders of the measurer's- and that is how the shoulders should be- SQUARE like the feet!!

:

If someone asked me what height I wanted my horse to be I would leave and report them to an official immediately.

The whole point of measuring is to find out what height the horse is, NOT what height you can make it!!!

 

[littlearab]

I'm with rabbitfizz on this one. I have often wondered about this one.

I have a stallion who is papers say 34. I took him to a show last sumer, he was measured in at 33. Fine I guess. But I can not help wondering why. I would think if he is 34 he should be shown at 34. I understand that most would be thrilled to have an inch taken off thier horses hieght, But to me he is still 34.

He did not shrink :lol:

I think a horse should be measured once and leave it at that. You could have it measured 3 times the same day by diffent people witness by all three. If by any chance all three get a diffent number, add them together and devide by 3. It would shown at that hieght all year, the next year do it again. When a horse is 3 (permanet papers) no more measuring it is XXinchs that's it.

This what are you aiming for is to put it nicely silly. There it would be solved.. No cheating on hieght at nationals. because the horse would be shown at XXinches all year and would be shown at XXinches there.

I know it would not solve the horses who are not shown hieght issue. How many of us have horses who hieghts are wrong on thier papers and we know it. How many broodmares are there registeredat 38 who are 39 even 40??

It would not solve that at all. But would end the hieght issue at shows anyway.

JMHO nothing more..

 

[minih]

There should be NO variation from show to show on an adult horse- if there is then there is something seriously wrong with the measuring

I used to agree with this thinking, until I got more into showing and actually watched some of the measures. Over all they do try to get an accurate measurement, BUT there are A LOT of factors that can change a measurement on any given day. One I ran in to this year, new show horse was tense and bowed up while measuring at the first show, went back later after horses had time to adjust and remember what it came there for before, horse relaxed with no bowing and tenseness in the back and it was a whole 3/4 inch different! I saw the measuring and nothing was wrong with it, just a more relaxed horse. We are all in such a rush when we first get to the shows, unlaod trailer, set up tack room, get horses measured, get show packet, etc... horses are bound to feel the excitement and react by being tense. I have been thinking since then, I bet a cold horse would be bowed up also and change a measurement. The steward did the best measurement with what they had, horse was square and head even. I can not blame them for a tense horse.

 

[Loess Hills]

Deb - this is a very interesting topic that I'm glad you brought up. We've had similar experiences which seem really strange in the measuring department. Our driving gelding is 32.5 for his permanent measurement at five years old. Last year our first show he measured 31.5 - yes! measured twice by the show steward. The next show one month later we had him measured because my husband forgot that he'd been measured before. One month later he measured 31.75 by a different show steward. This year at his first show he measured 32.5 (his previous measurement the year before!) and we had just had his hooves trimmed. And this was another different show steward. So I guess he shrank and then grew back again!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

You can request a remeasurement by the steward up to 3 times at a show. And sometimes they'll ask US if the measurement is what we wanted?????!!!!!!!!!

Another instance we know of is some people who show a supposed 34" horse (he appears to be over 34"). For several years he showed in the "B" classes. Then for the past few years he has showed in the "A" classes. How weird is this? I don't know if he measures in at exactly 34" so perhaps he can show in both classes???

I will be very interested in others imput on this subject.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I understand perfectly what you are saying about a tense horse making a difference to the height- that is why I do not measure a horse when it is tense!!

Send it away to the back of the line- unless it is easily under when it does not matter- so long as the horse fits in it's class who cares what it's actual height is anyway??

I am really only concerned with horses that are genuinely up to an inch overheight being "wangled" in - that is TOTALLY wrong and makes a mockery of the whole process.

Give out height certificates at the beginning of each year, valid for the year, and let that be an end of it.

If a horse measures out for it's certificate it can be re-measure by arrangement at any show through out the season, it is NOT " Rocket Science" after all!!!

:

 

[jlh]

I've been watching horses measured for more than a decade, and I firmly believe that any horse can measure up to an inch up or down according to the mood and condition of the horse, the handler, and the measurer.

I just don't get too wrapped up in worrying about the exact 1/4 inch height measurement.

I don't know if anyone else has noticed, but if a horse has a measurement card submitted to AMHR after their permanent measurement is taken that shows up different, that most recent measurement will show up on the stud book online, even if they haven't had to get any updated paperwork with the new height. that could explain why a horse could show up a different height on its offspring's papers than the original copy of the permanent papers.

 

[kaykay]

for the poster i definately would have requested a remeasure. especially when its that close. If it had been me i would have walked the horse around to loosen him up and went to re measure

tiny is perm papered at 32.". This is what i stick her at. Just showed this week and measured 31.25. This steward is way better at measuring then i am so i feel sure his was more accurate. I could care less what mine measure so im just not that careful when i measure

bitsy one of the smallest i show measures up to a full inch diff at diff shows. why?? I have no idea!!! but i have seen it for myself.

It all comes down to this. Our current measurement system DOES NOT WORK in either registery. Since i breed and show everything from 29"-37" i could care less what anyone measures. But i can see where this is a bigger deal to those breeding for the smaller A division horses.

Rabbit the only thing i disagree with is measuring once per year. No way will that work with most young horses as they can hit a growth spurt at any given time. Black i swear grew 2 full inches at the end of May.

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

I understand perfectly what you are saying about a tense horse making a difference to the height- that is why I do not measure a horse when it is tense!!

Send it away to the back of the line- unless it is easily under when it does not matter- so long as the horse fits in it's class who cares what it's actual height is anyway??

I

Well it really isnt that simple at all Jane.. first off a horse who is at there first show, overwhelmed and then nervous about being sticked by a stranger in a strange place with hustle and bustle going on may not decide to totally relax just cause he is gone to the end of the line for a bit.

A horse who is cold will measure different we went to a show in May the weeks before the show weather was nice the weekend of the show it was FREEZING so to unblanket and measure would make a HUGE difference- a stallion in the surge of hormones... a mare with a stallion a few horses back all these things CAN make a difference in measuring it doesnt always mean cheating by the owner or incompatence by the steward or some consipericy between the 2

At World show and NAtionals the size does make a difference in the under or over as there are different divisions in some classes so under isnt just under

I guess there is no simple answer and certainly no answer everyone will be happy with and the only thing we surely all will agree on is the system we have doesnt always work the best.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Sorry Kay I should have been more specific, I meant for Adult animals- I am still not convinced that a lifetime certificate is good enough but I would be happy with measuring ADULT animals once a year.

Lisa, I do hear what you are saying but I have measured in the freezing cold and in the Sahara heat- I do have the advantage of being allowed to move my measuring place- ie at the Committees discretion we can measure where the horse is, as opposed to where the measuring has been set to be, so the horse can be put at ease.

I agree the one thing we will all agree on is the fact that the present scheme is not working.

I also by no means think our way is better, or perfect in any way.

I suppose what it comes down to is, if people would just stop trying to cheat we could get back to showing our horses without hassle!!!

The height your horse measures at home, measured correctly, should be the height it measures at the show.

 

[sassy1]

I show Miniature Ponies here in Australia - I don't show "mini horse" but have friends who do.

Miniature Ponies are measured at the top of the wither. I am an Official Measurer for the Australian Miniature Pony Society (AMPS), so I do measure quite a few ponies every year

Miniature Horses here are measured at last hairs of the mane, same as USA.

I personally think that it is far easier to "find" the top of the wither than to "find" the last hairs of the mane. Some states here issue height cards at the start of the show season with adults not needing to be measured again for the season and youngstock having to be measured every 3 months during the season. All of our AMPS breed shows, all ponies have to go under the stick. Our AMPS upper height limit is 87cms (34 & 1/4").

I personally have had a gelding that decided at 6 & 1/2 years to grow! He went from 86.5cms to 89cms and stayed there!! Luckily he was also a registered Stud-Book Shetland

:

 

[Aggravation Acres]

First off. Thanks for all of the replys.

I should have put in to pm me if you did not feel comfortable answering on here.

Come to think of it. My horse may have been tense. We did arrive very late. (hit every red light on the 2 1/2 hour drive)

My gelding's class was just 3 classes away when we arrived so we were rushing all around. I had to run to the bathroom

you know how that goes after a loong drive). So my husband got the mare out and tied the gelding to the trailer. And he was at the measuring place when I got done with my business. At the first show we measured her. Both horses were there so she was very calm, this time she was jumpy, moving around a lot. But we did not have time to have her remeasured again. I had to get my number and get changed for the first class.

Deb