Jill
Aspiring Cowgirl
Maddie is still not allowing Trooper (born 4/29 @ 6:30pm) nurse unless you hold her and tell her to stand. You can step back and sometimes unsnap the halter but have to keep telling her to be still. She won't let him near her if you don't hold her. Sometimes after he's nursed and goes a way, she will lunge at him and bite him (I don't think hard) and she has kicked him. She doesn't kick him when we make her let him nurse.
I'm not sure what to do. I tried rubbing the towel we dried him off with on him, her and him again then draping it over him. She's interested in that smell but didn't change her attitude towards him.
Tried this morning to get him to drink Foal Lac mixed w/ her milk and syrup but couldn't. Tried like an hour and a half and he'd been 3 hours not nursing prior (wanted him good and hungry). He was starting to fall asleep so had no choice but to make her let him nurse again.
Maddie had a hard delivery and nearly or did prolapse her uterus (not sure on correct term -- it wasn't outside of her body but the vet had to push it back from the cervix and push the horns of it how they go). She was like she was in hard labor for about an hour after he was born (took me about 10 minutes to call the vet when I realized for sure it wasn't normal, then the vet maybe 40 minutes to arrive). Had to have an epidural ETC. so Maddie was unable to investigate Trooper at all until he was 4-5 hours old. I think this is the cause of the rejection.
She has raised at least one other foal before.
Not at my wits end yet but I think that may be coming, plus the reality of needing to be able to go to work here at some point. I do think from what my vet said, I can now go longer now than every 2 hours on feeding at his current age (I think he said 3-4 hours at 3-4 days) which helps but still won't give me time to go to the office.
I just really need to get her to accept him, or get him to drink from a bowl and hoping some of you have some advice that could help.
Thanks!
Jill
PS here they are. In the pic together, I airbrushed out the lead rope which I was at the end of. She shows mild interest when he nurses but then when he's done sometimes pins ears and lunges at him and two nights ago she corned him int he stall and was kicking him. Now that they can go in/out of the stall and he can stay out of her way better, she's not going out of her way to attack him. In case gives any additional insight (and oh man am I tired)
PPS he is active after he nurses, runs and bucks. Nickers when he hears us coming, too (knows that means he'll get to eat).
[SIZE=14pt]05/05/09 UPDATE:[/SIZE]
Just wanted to update everyone on "Trooper"!!!
We gave up on trying to get Maddie to accept him. She was becoming more and more resentful of him, however...........
He is doing very well with drinking milk (Foal Lac formula) from a bowl. He learned to do it late Sunday morning and I think he's pretty happy to now get enough to eat! His dam had a very difficult time after his birth requiring extensive vet care. This put her "meeting him" back 4-5 hours after delivery. I think this, along with her pain, caused her to reject him but the alternative was she would have died. But, thank God, Trooper is eating well and he is VERY frisky!!!
Here he is in action and in picture. His front leg is SO much better. Still not perfect, but no comparison to how it was at birth and I feel confident it will be straight (as does our vet). His back legs are great now. In the picture and probably in some of the video, he was thinking about potty which is why he's got a hunched posture. I wish I could catch him playing in the stall on film but I cannot get far enough away from him in there to catch a video and when I look in right now, he doesn't play. I can sure see him doing it over the stall camera, though
[SIZE=14pt]Whinny For Me's Finely Dun, a/k/a Trooper[/SIZE]
2009 AMHA / AMHR pending, AMHR Futurity Nominated Red Dun Colt (may grey out) -- Expected To Mature @ or under 34"
By Erica's Gone and DunIT (AMHR Nat'l Top 10 / AMHA Honor Roll / Multi Champion) and Out of Wee Equine Acres Dun Sweet
Bloodlines include: Buckeroo, BTU, Yellow Diamond Little Feather, and Egyptian King
[SIZE=18pt]05/08/09 Update / Summary -- What Worked For Us[/SIZE]
For those who may read this looking for ways to help their own rejected or orphan foal, I wanted to just give a quick like point list of what helped us the most, as we were not ever able to get Maddie to accept Trooper despite some early optimism:
I hope no one needs this thread for a long time, however, I know if we ever have the same kind of situation, the next time will be MUCH easier thanks to what I learned on this thread and through hands on trial and error with Trooper.
Thank You everyone who chimed in with ideas and moral support. This was just one of the times I have seen LB members come together to help each other and it illustrates why "this place" is so great -- it has so many caring and knowledgable members!!!
I'm not sure what to do. I tried rubbing the towel we dried him off with on him, her and him again then draping it over him. She's interested in that smell but didn't change her attitude towards him.
Tried this morning to get him to drink Foal Lac mixed w/ her milk and syrup but couldn't. Tried like an hour and a half and he'd been 3 hours not nursing prior (wanted him good and hungry). He was starting to fall asleep so had no choice but to make her let him nurse again.
Maddie had a hard delivery and nearly or did prolapse her uterus (not sure on correct term -- it wasn't outside of her body but the vet had to push it back from the cervix and push the horns of it how they go). She was like she was in hard labor for about an hour after he was born (took me about 10 minutes to call the vet when I realized for sure it wasn't normal, then the vet maybe 40 minutes to arrive). Had to have an epidural ETC. so Maddie was unable to investigate Trooper at all until he was 4-5 hours old. I think this is the cause of the rejection.
She has raised at least one other foal before.
Not at my wits end yet but I think that may be coming, plus the reality of needing to be able to go to work here at some point. I do think from what my vet said, I can now go longer now than every 2 hours on feeding at his current age (I think he said 3-4 hours at 3-4 days) which helps but still won't give me time to go to the office.
I just really need to get her to accept him, or get him to drink from a bowl and hoping some of you have some advice that could help.
Thanks!
Jill
PS here they are. In the pic together, I airbrushed out the lead rope which I was at the end of. She shows mild interest when he nurses but then when he's done sometimes pins ears and lunges at him and two nights ago she corned him int he stall and was kicking him. Now that they can go in/out of the stall and he can stay out of her way better, she's not going out of her way to attack him. In case gives any additional insight (and oh man am I tired)
PPS he is active after he nurses, runs and bucks. Nickers when he hears us coming, too (knows that means he'll get to eat).
[SIZE=14pt]05/05/09 UPDATE:[/SIZE]
Just wanted to update everyone on "Trooper"!!!
We gave up on trying to get Maddie to accept him. She was becoming more and more resentful of him, however...........
He is doing very well with drinking milk (Foal Lac formula) from a bowl. He learned to do it late Sunday morning and I think he's pretty happy to now get enough to eat! His dam had a very difficult time after his birth requiring extensive vet care. This put her "meeting him" back 4-5 hours after delivery. I think this, along with her pain, caused her to reject him but the alternative was she would have died. But, thank God, Trooper is eating well and he is VERY frisky!!!
Here he is in action and in picture. His front leg is SO much better. Still not perfect, but no comparison to how it was at birth and I feel confident it will be straight (as does our vet). His back legs are great now. In the picture and probably in some of the video, he was thinking about potty which is why he's got a hunched posture. I wish I could catch him playing in the stall on film but I cannot get far enough away from him in there to catch a video and when I look in right now, he doesn't play. I can sure see him doing it over the stall camera, though
[SIZE=14pt]Whinny For Me's Finely Dun, a/k/a Trooper[/SIZE]
2009 AMHA / AMHR pending, AMHR Futurity Nominated Red Dun Colt (may grey out) -- Expected To Mature @ or under 34"
By Erica's Gone and DunIT (AMHR Nat'l Top 10 / AMHA Honor Roll / Multi Champion) and Out of Wee Equine Acres Dun Sweet
Bloodlines include: Buckeroo, BTU, Yellow Diamond Little Feather, and Egyptian King
[SIZE=18pt]05/08/09 Update / Summary -- What Worked For Us[/SIZE]
For those who may read this looking for ways to help their own rejected or orphan foal, I wanted to just give a quick like point list of what helped us the most, as we were not ever able to get Maddie to accept Trooper despite some early optimism:
- From what we have read, it is best to get the baby onto a shallow bucket or bowl (best) because the bottle can get them to suck down air and also harbor bacteria more readily than buckets / bowls. We never could get Trooper to latch onto a bottle anyway.
- We had the most luck with a metal 10" diameter dog bowl that from the inside was just about 3" deep. We kept holding it to Trooper's muzzle and I also took my hand and smeared his muzzle with the milk so he'd lick it off and get the taste of it. I tilted it so the deep end would be at his muzzle when I held it up to him and I did dunk his chin but never over his mouth as that could go up his nose.
- The first few days, foals must have milk every 1-2 hours around the clock. After 3-4 days, you can go to about every 3 hours. Then you can stretch it to every 4.
- The foal will be less likely to put his head down into a bucket than to drink out of a more shallow bowl (thanks, Kay!).
- You will have the best luck if you have a way to prop the bowl up when you leave it for the foal to drink. We used a milk crate turned upside down and "filled" it with 6 cut 4x4 posts. This was to give it weight so not to be knocked around. The bowl is the kind that is hard for dogs to tip over and we set it down on the cut posts inside the milk crate. It fits in about 2" into the crate which keeps the bowl from being slid off the surface.
- Once the foal will start eating milk replacer pellets, you can go longer between milk feedings. These pellets can be fed free choice and will not spoil so long as you do not wet them.
- Sprinkle milk replacer formula over pellets to get the foal more interested in them (thank you, Cristina!).
- We found a limited number of brands of powder and pellets available "locally" (we traveled a wide circle of local to get what we now have on hand). Many recommended Progressive Nutrition formula and pellets to me, and I'd have gotten them but the closest dealer is about 125 miles from here.
- We found Mare's Match and Foal Lac powders and pellets to be easiest to find here. We have some of each, however, the Foal Lac brand pellets are MUCH softer than the Mare's Match. If you have the same two choices, early on, go with the Foal Lac Pellets. When in doubt, try them yourself... I did and it beats the foal choking on them.
- Starting at around 10 days old, foal should have free choice soft / tender / leafy hay, salt and water free choice. Fill the water bucket up to the top so foal doesn't have to stick his/her head down too far into a "scary" bucket.
I hope no one needs this thread for a long time, however, I know if we ever have the same kind of situation, the next time will be MUCH easier thanks to what I learned on this thread and through hands on trial and error with Trooper.
Thank You everyone who chimed in with ideas and moral support. This was just one of the times I have seen LB members come together to help each other and it illustrates why "this place" is so great -- it has so many caring and knowledgable members!!!
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