Farrier Rant

[Katiean]

Although I agree in general with everything that Frank is saying in that article I would add that each and every horse, large or small, has to be taken as an individual - actually every HOOF needs to be taken as an individual so although you can use that article as a guideline you also need to look at each foot you work on and it's particular needs.

I agree with this. Out of my 4 horses I have 2 that grow toe and not much heel, one that grows heel and not much toe and one that grows even.

 

[HorseMom]

Vet had something come up so he's coming tomorrow. This is just a vet friend who is going to take a look. I couldn't get to the farm before dark so no pictures, will try again tomorrow. He is still pretty sore, poor guy. I did order the issue of American Farrier Journal with the Mini Horse article. And I agree, every horse is different, but I still think that the article will be informative and have a good guideline. I'm hoping that the farrier and I can work this out. He's still not helpful and won't even consider that he made a mistake. *rolls eyes*

 

[Margaret]

I have been doing some new clients lately and trimmed a 2 year old filly that had very long heels .

Poor thing was trimmed wrong for most of her life it seemed.. The lady that owned her had no clue that her angles were way off, and her heels had become contracted due to that. The filly is showing promising improvement with proper regular trims now and the lady is amazed at how much better she looks.

Sometimes a different farrier is all you need to see and correct a problem.

 

[HorseMom]

Ok. I finally got pictures of all four feet. Jay's doesn't seem to be lame in his hind end, just his front. His hind feet don't look too bad. I lunged him twice around again today to see how he was, still very lame and short strided in the front.

Jay's Right Front

Jay's Left Front

Jay's Left Hind

Jay's Right Hind

 

[MindyLee]

:arg! :arg! :arg! :arg! :arg! :arg! :arg!

AWWWWWWWWWWWW!!! Oh WOW do his front feet look nasty! (sorry)

OH poor boy and I can totally see why he's in such pain on them fronts, specialy that left.

Wow I see why you are so upset. I would be too looking at thoses feet that look like that. That is way worse then I was imagining, and wow do you have a long time before he grows out long enough to get them fixed. Poor guy!!! You can even see in his old posted jumping photo (which I have seen in the past) the difference in lenght... wow Im soooo sorry for both you and him! I speechless, not impressed, and disgusted.

The hind right is by far the nicest...

 

[zoey829]

Ugh! I am sooo sorry.

I've been having a problem with farriers and owning mini horses. The majority seem to think that they are just pets and don't take their trims seriously. The last one decided that he was going to completely change Jay's angle without discussing it with me first. Jay is dead lame, and this is a horse that has never been lame. Jay looks like he has four club feet when he really doesn't. I hate to see Jay so uncomfortable. I sent an e-mail to the farrier to ask him what I should do to make it easier for him until the feet grow back. I was very nice in the e-mail and tried to sound like I wasn't blaming him. He got very defensive and told me that it wasn't him, that Jay must have gotten hurt when I worked him over the weekend. I didn't work him until this morning and only did a short lunge because it was obvious that he was lame. I did lunge him before the trim on Friday, he'll stand better once that excess energy is burned off. The farrier said that Jay should have been lame right off the bat if it was the trim. Is that true? He also said that he didn't hit pink or get blood and that's the only way a horse would be lame after a trim. I don't think that's true. I just want to have all my ducks in a row before I send him another e-mail. I've also called the vet that boards at the farm to see if he could take a look just in case it is something else.

I've had to stop Jay's training, this is going to be a huge set back in our CDE training. The good news is I'll have lots of time to work on clicker training Jay.

 

[Margaret]

Too bad his fronts couldnt have been trimmed more like his back ones.

I would give this boy time to grow his front toes out..It looks as if he might be feeling too much toe pressure.

Also perhaps some of that front toe pressure might be relieved by dropping the front heels some, if there is any room left to do so.

The weight of the horse should be mostly on the heels, and back frog.

So sorry this happened, but hopefully he will be fine with some time and rest.

Soft bedding will help for now too to give him pressure relief.

Once he grows out more, the angles can be properly corrected.

 

[Katiean]

His back don't look too bad. However, yes, I can see where he would be sore on the front feet. It looks like her isn't even got a flat surface on his front feet. What was the farrier thinking? Hoe can he think he did a good job for you? I am always there when my horses are done and I always ask questions if I don't like what they are doing.

 

[HorseMom]

I was there for this, but it was too late once I noticed that the feet were all wrong. The farrier wasn't very talkative and I was a bit distracted trying to keep Jay from biting the guy. (He's always had a biting problem, we're working on it and seen improvement). I feel like such a bad momma for letting this happen right under my nose.

 

[Margaret]

Dont feel too bad, you didnt know.. Jay was just trying to tell the guy to not trim him so short..

It also looks like the farrier was trying to give him a mustang roll on the front tip of his front hooves.. ( thus the roll)

That can be a good idea when the toe is longer, so that it helps with turn over.

In this case though it was not applicable.

 

[Jetiki]

Those look really short, however I have one when trimmed right are that short looking. If it were my horse I'd be duct taping some pads to his feet for some cushion. Same principal idea of the foundered horse pads, not saying this horse has foundered just using the idea of the pads for pain/pressure relief.

karen

 

[Carolyn R]

The back actually look good, the front looks like there is way too much toe taken off and they are at a steep angle, so it looks with that much toe taken off.

Fronts can be tricky sometimes, if the heel is taken too low, the hoof grows out into a dinner plate (toe flares out as it grows), if the toe is too short and too much heel is left, it throws the leg off (think of wearing high heels and where it places your ankle over your foot, its not natural, its uncomfortable and it throws your balance off).

At this point, you can try the duct tape if he is ouchy, otherwise (unless he is in pain) try to let it grow out a bit before you touch them.

I would just suggest that your farrier just trim off the naturally occuring excess hoof rather than reshaping it next time (or just get a new farrier). I think they are afraid of telling us "hey the fronts don't need much, I'm just gonna rasp it this time and clean up the sole", in fear that we'll think they don't deserve the pay.

Many of the mini owners out there have grown tired of poor trims or unreliable ferriers and have taken it upon themselves to do their own trims (including myself, great ferrier, just got too many clients, taught me himself). My ferrier is a great guy and is on standby if I should need him for an issue, this works best for both of us.

 

[alphahorses]

I just changed farriers and one of the new guys was saying "You have to leave the heel really long on these little guys..."

I see a LOT of minis (and shetlands) at shows with heels that are much much too long. No only does the angulation cause unnatural stress on the legs (just as it does for women when they wear high heels), but it is a major reason why so many minis have club-like feet. And because long heels prevent the frog from reaching the ground and aiding in circulation of blood through the hoof, high heels also contribute to founder and other hoof problems.

"No hoof, no horse" is still a true statement, and a farrier should take trimming hooves on ANY horse seriously. I am fortunate - my farrier is a certified master farrier, and he takes everything from my pasture orament to my show horses just as seriously as he takes the $100K dressage horses that he works on!

 

[MiLo Minis]

The right back foot has a good angle and is quite healthy - nice trim.

The left back foot I am seeing quite a bit of flare and wrong angle - bad trim.

The left front foot has a fairly good angle but I am seeing flare on the toe that should have been rasped off, not just the mustang roll you see but removal of the flare above that - bad trim.

The right front foot has way too much toe removed, he can't stand flat on it, you can see air under it. This is no doubt where the pain is coming from. The angle won't be bad as long as only his heel is rasped for the next trim and the toe is allowed to grow. Unfortunately there is no quick fix here, you are going to have to wait for the toe to grow out as there doesn't appear to be enough hoof there to take his heel down to relieve the pressure but a photo of the bottom of the hoof would be helpful.

3 of 4 feet - bad trim = bad farrier

I seriously recommend you look for a new farrier if this one has not even come out to see if he can help the little guy out any. Even if he doesn't think he is the cause of it (which he IS) he should be willing to come have a look at him too see if he can help.

 

[gvpalominominis]

I'll be the first to admit that I am not a professional farrier.... however... I trim ALL of my 20 mini horses feet regularly for about the past 5 years and have done a tremendous amount of research in order to be able to do it correctly, safely and the way I like them done.

Sometimes, you just get sore feet... some horses are more sensitive... you learn which ones are more sensitive and trim accordingly. I'd like to see the whole horse.... not just the foot... and the under side of the hoof. If the space around the frog is evenly trimmed... it is typically the correct size hoof for the horse. if the horse is stepped up or not squared... you can't always evaluate the angle of the hoof. This farrier at least took the time to shape the feet and give the horse some toe roll over.... that I do myself to the rear hoofs for some. Did the farrier walk the horse to see how it moved with its trim? I don't think the angles are all that bad on this trim. It also depends on what the farrier had to start with.... if the hoof had gone a little longer before being trimmed... it would cause flair in the hoof and set the angle of the hoofs off and it would take more than one trim to correct it. Belive me... if I had to pay to have my herd done by a farrier every 8 weeks... it would cost me $5,600 a year! (They charge $35 per horse - same as the bigs)

What I have found with most farriers is that they don't spend the time they do on the bigs with shaping the hoof. And as many of you have mentioned... they usually put too steep of an angle on the hoof and I also find they make them too rounded looking. You have to trim to fit the individual horse and hoof.

Have any farrier's responded to this thread?

I ran across a product the other day that was a fast setting rubber material that could not only be used as a "shoe" but could also be used to add heel to foals and older horses to help with some corrections. Some horses grow heel faster, some grow toe faster. But I thought this might be a product I'd like to try. I'll see if I can find where I saw the product.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I would agree that some horses go sore at the touch of a rasp, I have had horses like that, where a simple, normal trim would send them lame if you went one rasp too far, but I don't think that is the case here, these feet have been mangled!!

For a start the angles are completely different, for no discernible reason, between the front and the back.

The front right, as Milo has said, is completely wrong.

Why do farriers do this??

It seems to be a common failing in the horse world at large that they just lose their marbles when it comes to dealing with Minis.

I have had a respected Judge say to me, in the ring "How do I judge these little ones?" (I was the steward) and I had to think of something polite to say, very quickly.

They Are HORSES it is not rocket science, if you can pare a barefoot big horses (and a lot of farriers can't, BTW) then you can pare a barefoot Mini.

My Farrier taught me, in self defense of his back, forty years ago, and I have been going ever since. Some grow too much heel, some grow too much toe, this is normal throughout the equine world, it is not confined to Minis.

Vets too, just lose it. I heard my Vet say to a student who came with him to geld, "These little ones take twice as much sedative as the big ones...." He only got that far before I was tersely correcting him (I also changed my Vet pretty quickly!)

If you can get hold of Cornucrescine, use it, it works, it really does, it will help grow the hoof in much shorter time, and you will also have lovely nails!!!!

I do hope your little one is back to normal soon, I would really be looking for a new farrier.....

 

[MiLo Minis]

Have any farrier's responded to this thread?

I am a farrier Joanne!

I have seen far too many Minis with similar problems. Either the farrier is just not good at his job which I suspect in this instance or they just don't care enough about Minis thinking they are not actually going to be used for anything. I wrote an article hoping to educate some owners to help the horses, it is posted on my website for anyone that would care to read it. If we educate ourselves we can help the farriers to know what we need and want for our horse's feet.

 

[gvpalominominis]

Have any farrier's responded to this thread?

I am a farrier Joanne!

I have seen far too many Minis with similar problems. Either the farrier is just not good at his job which I suspect in this instance or they just don't care enough about Minis thinking they are not actually going to be used for anything. I wrote an article hoping to educate some owners to help the horses, it is posted on my website for anyone that would care to read it. If we educate ourselves we can help the farriers to know what we need and want for our horse's feet.

Awwh. = ) Now I know someone to ask questions to...

Well I guess just as in anything... you can always agree to disagree... LOL LOL You are very right.... you should work with your farrier I just think in this case it is not very fair to evaluate or condemn this farrier, without seeing the before foot and the whole horse... IMO I've also witnessed how one person looks and perceives an angle and how another may have a different perspective - right brain/left brain thing maybe. Regardless.... bravo to HorseMom for having the horses feet trimmed and caring how they turned out!

Doesn't it look like he filed off the front toe as if they had shoes on? Weird... but I still say the angle of the hoof to the pastern isn't bad. = )

I found that rubber stuff.... it was called "Sole-Guard" and "Super Fast" and I found it in Ozark Mountains sales catalog.

 

[HorseMom]

Thankfully my trainer's farrier, who is well known for being an awesome farrier, is willing to make the 2 hour trek to teach me how to trim my own horses. All the really good farriers in my area will not take anymore clients, no matter what. I understand that, they want a life outside of work as much as the next person. The farrier that did this trim won't answer any of my e-mails anymore, nor will he come out to take a look at him or give me advise on what I can do to make him feel better. i knew it was the trim that made Jay lame, but the e-mail I sent the farrier did not blame him for the lameness. I didn't want to attack him. He should have discussed with me about changing the angle of his feet before taking any off. I thought he was just going to give him a quick trim. The guy did get immediately defensive. Jay's previous owner lives at the farm that I board at and she said that he's never been lame. She's had him since he was a yearling. I've had him for over 2 years and he's never been lame. He gets his feet trimmed every 8 weeks whether he needs it or not, my mare needs her's done every 8 on the dot or she starts to crumble. This guy that came out was my third farrier this year, the first one to do a bad job. The others just never returned calls or never showed up to appointments, all the more reason for me to learn to do it myself. Here are some pictures of Jay driving, please excuse his head set and mohawk. These are the only fairly recent pictures that I have of him pre-trim.

 

[Margaret]

I trimmed this boy of mine a week or two ago, and wanted to share with you what angle my stallion is comfortable with for a pasture trim. front hoof

Please excuse the dirt and the hairy legs, lol

He of course manage to chip off the front tip of his hoof just for this picture, but you get the idea of the angle.

When they are not trimmed too short, then there is still room for some mild dishing of the sole, which also relieves some stress..