Correct legs

[Margaret]

I have noticed quite a few weanlings from places with legs that seem to flare out after the knee joint. Thus giving a slight appearance of toeing out at the front..

Some breeders are telling me that this is typical of a younger horse, and that all will straighten out in time..

My question is,.. if this is typical in young horse conformation, then when can one expect to see the legs go straight from the knee joint down.

If you think that this is not typical please also state so..

I have a picture of a front end of a young horse without the head included, and wouuld like to post it anomously,- but not sure if it would be allowed.

Otherwise I can post an example of what I am talking about.

Mary

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

I personally dont consider it normal of course not talking about the first few days when a foal can unfold and really might have been in a funky position in utero- usually after a wrrk or so give or take a couple of days with exercise and such they are how they are going to be IMO

I dont see it as something that changes say as a 6 month old or a yr old on a regular basis I am sure there is exceptions but I think they are just that JMHOt

 

[Magic]

I personally don't think that "flaring out" legs in a foal is typical, unless perhaps it is just born and it's legs are rubbery still. If a foal has been weaned, what you see is what you get for their legs, IMO.

 

[Boinky]

I agree.. most likely those foals legs will always be crooked. from my experience very few outgrow it..especially if it's VERY noticable..a little leeway may change with strenghtened ligaments and joints as they get older..but serious croockedness like i suspect you are talking about probably will not "outgrow"

 

[Margaret]

I suspected this.

Although there is world champion linage involved these yearlings, they just dont look right in the front. Oddly enough,- the breeder says they will straighten out, and was able to "set one straight" to make a good front photo.

But the yearling went right back to the origional toeing out position, once turned loose.

Not many foals/young horses are professionally photographed from the front angle,Ive noticed, in most cases, so I wasent sure.

The photo I have is a front angle of a 8 month old, but it is a body shot of "someone elses" horse.

Are we not allowed to post these- even with out the head? ( since its not our horse)

I think it would be a good learning experience for others getting into minis to learn from if they could see what I am talking about.

Maybe people would stop breeding these poor babies if they knew, what was NOT desirable in yearling conformation.

 

[lvponies]

I don't think you're supposed to post other people's pictures unless you have permission to do so.

 

[wildoak]

Basic conformation, good or bad, should be pretty apparent once a foal is past the first few weeks. However - in my experience, there are lots of babies who do change gradually in those first months due to trimming or lack of, amount of exercise, and as their tendons & muscles strengthen, body fills out and chest widens. Good hoof care and nutrition make a big difference.

I have a picture that I pull out every year around foaling time and look at, just to remind me how much they can change from birth. Peppys Blue Bonanza was a Regional and Honor Roll Champion, and produced a World Champion...but at birth she looked like she was about 4" wide and windswept, with legs going every direction but vertical. She certainly outgrew it. :aktion033:

Edited - reread your post, if you are looking at yearlings that are crooked they aren't going to change, assuming of course that it's structural and not just poor trimming.

Jan

 

[MiniHoofBeats]

I am not sure if this is true, but I was told not too long ago that something noticed on the "araby" type mini's is that they are born very narrow bodied with their legs very close together, and that when they mature up around 3+ years of age that they will "pop" apart and grow a chest and wider at the hips.

Anyone else hear of this?

 

[kaykay]

minihoof what you are talking about is more of a late bloomer. Many bloodlines tend to bloom later. I find a lot of Miniature Horse people give up on a horse way to quickly. We are an impatient lot of people!

I have a mare that took until she was 3 to really bloom and come into her own. It took that long for her to fill in and mature. But I knew that the specific bloodline was known for that

Arenosa horses also tend to mature slowly but are well worth the wait.

A toed out yearling is a toed out horse. That is really a structural conformation defect as opposed to a slow maturing horse.

 

[Bassett]

This is my Goldilocks. She has had a crooked leg since birth. The left front one. Her vet said to keep her confined and not to let her get a lot of exercise and it could probably go straight by the time she was 6 months old. She is now 10 months old and very furry but I don't think there is much change under her fuzzy pajamas. It does not bother her in any way, when she puts her mind to it my geldings can not catch her. She is a little speed demon. Only stands about 26 inches tall at the shoulder. But I don't think any leg will get real straight if it's like hers. A brace or splint of any kind was not recommended. So we just love her the way she is.

:

 

[Fred]

I also really doubt that leg will "get straight" even with trimming. Yes it might "look" a little better but if it doesn't bother her I would love her like that also. Actually both legs appear to be crooked from the knee down which is properly called an angular limb deformity. It's a lot more common than people realize. Linda B PS She is cute as a button!

 

[nootka]

Little Goldilocks has the issues she has b/c of her overall build, that is not typical (I would suspect she is a dwarf just from what I can see, no offense, but this is not typical at all of the averagely built weanling or even yearling).

A weanling usually gets pretty straight within the first week, though sometimes they tend to look toed-out due more to fast growth of hooves and long toes, etc. plus the combined softness of growing joints and bones. It is very important to have them trimmed regularly and in my experience it needs to be once every four weeks sometimes even more often.

I would say that most times you can "see" where the problem originates from, though, and it's often fairly easy to see what is just a trimming issue as opposed to something that should cause great concern in a long-term situation. The older the weanling, the more likely it is that what you see is what you will always have.

ONE leg affected is more concerning as well, as compared to a symmetrical issue.

I'm no real expert, just offering my observations....

Here is a picture of a filly I had. She was five months old, here:

She was resting her left rear, here)

Again resting her left rear, but you can see her basic structure.

This is fairly typical of what I'd expect to see at this age: good, straight legs all the way from shoulder down.

I would also expect them to stay that way.

Her mother as a three or four week old foal. Fairly typical (knees kind of close together, she was born with pretty lax tendons but they corrected within 24 hours, and MY vet says to let them run as much as possible when they're like that), and we trimmed her every 2-4 weeks for the first 6 months. It pretty much self-corrected, he just kept the hooves straight.

She really has a fairly fine bone structure (this mare), though her daughter above was somewhat less so.

Hope these help a little.

Liz M.

 

[Margaret]

Basset, thank you for your photo's of you sweet adorable mini. Although she is tiny, she does show the same type of concern that these particular mini's had, so your pictures were helpful .

Nooka, bless your heart for posting the photo of your 5 month old filly..and foal.

This is what I would expect to see in a properly conformed horse at this young age.

You must have read my mind as I was getting ready to ask for a good example.

Hopefully this will help others to realize what is "to be strived for" in conformation, and also know- what is not to be strived for.

Fred, I do believe this is the term "Angular limb deformity" that would describe this problem, although many try to excuse it as temporary growing thing..

Thank you for your insight.

Hopefully this post will help others to recognise this as a conformation concern,- and not something a young horse will eventually grow out of. (although I'm sure there are those rare cases- its probably not best to bet on it)

 

[justjinx]

Bonnie, your little girl looks like an Achondroplasia dwarf. She has the tiny ears they tend to have also. they have the very crooked joints yours does. We have one we adopted and she looks very similar to yours and is a very sweet 3 year old now! i would love to see more pics of your cutie. jennifer

 

[Minimor]

There was an article on this in an old World magazine (I think it was a World)--wish I still had it, but it was in one of the pile of magazines I borrowed from a friend when I got my first Minis. I couldn't tell you what issue or even what year it was from but I do remember the article.

It described how it is normal for foals to have a stage where their front legs do turn out--and I've seen foals like this from new born to several months of age--it goes with a narrow chest, and the legs turn out right from the top of the leg, and yes, as the foals grow & develop & their chests widen, their legs do slowly turn and become straight. That is what the article said, and I have seen this for myself.

Now if the legs are straight from the knee up, but from the knee down they turn outward--that is quite a different thing. That type of leg structure is not likely to come straight.

 

[Margaret]

Minimore, that does make sence to me, as some foals are born with a narrow chest and it does appear as if both front legs are comming out of the same socket..lol

A narrow chest, yes, an entirely different thing.

I have a mare now that was once considered a filly with a narrow chest by her previous owner- when she was younger.. but after I got her, and a little time, she did fill out,- and you cannot tell that this was her problem..

She is very much the Araby type to me, especially in attitude. This is a front view of her today.

 

[Bassett]

Bonnie, your little girl looks like an Achondroplasia dwarf. She has the tiny ears they tend to have also. they have the very crooked joints yours does. We have one we adopted and she looks very similar to yours and is a very sweet 3 year old now! i would love to see more pics of your cutie. jennifer

Jennifer. For some reason we do not think she is a dwarf. Everyone who sees her says shes not. She has grown about 7 inches in 10 months. Only an inch or two shorter than two of my other ones. I really don't care if she is or not. I just plain love her to pieces.

: She does have little tiny ears but her fur is hiding a lot. I can't wait until spring so I can see what's under there. Time will tell.

She will be a year old on April 27, which just happens to be my birthday. Only we were born 64 years apart. :bgrin :bgrin Thanks for you input.

Also thanks to you Liz, Nootka.

 

[Fred]

Angular limb deformities can occur in ANY breed. Just because the leg is crooked does not make it a dwarf, and it also does not mean it will occur in the next foal. Sometimes it just happens. Linda B

 

[nootka]

Here is this year's colt at one week of age. I have rarely had one that wasn't at least this straight, but the black filly above (the youngest one in the bottom pic) did have the "knock-kneed" look a bit longer than others, but she had very refined bone structure, and she IS straight, she just got there more slowly (I do suspect her dam had a possible deficiency, her foals always were more lax, but less so as I added supplements per my vet's suggestion).

I know it's not "straight on" but you can get a feel for how his legs look.

I yarded on these little legs SO HARD last week as he was being born, I was dragging his dam backwards with me for a few feet (he was hiplocked), so I guess in addition to lookin' good, they are sturdy, too! :new_shocked:

Bassett, the reason I suspect your little girl is a dwarf is that there appears to be deformity of all the legs that I can see, and the shape of the face, but in other pictures, she doesn't really look like one. I would guess she's much like the little palomino I had here, where she was basically "ok" but mine had a pretty severe underbite, so for that reason as well as a few other ones (domed head shape and heavy bone for her height of 30"), I considered her a dwarf and sold her as a pet only. If I could have spayed her, I would.

When your girl sheds, you may know more about her condition, but I'm glad she has a wonderful, loving home, she looks wayyy cuddly alright!

And no, crooked legs or leg doesn't mean dwarf, but of course it is something to be concerned with for breeding, even so. They ONLY reason I would excuse it is if it was environmental such as poor feed (this is sometimes hard to prove, IMO, and/or bad trimming or injury), and not genetic. Bad legs=a permanent hall pass from the breeding shed.

Maybe the horses from this farm suffer some type of deficiency in their diets, or an imbalance?

Liz M.

 

[Margaret]

I am not sure what it stems from.. The mention of lack of quality farrier service was mentioned more than once, but I also saw extra steep hoof walls that looked questionable. ( as if possibly genitic)

The sad thing is- the breeder does not recognise any of this as a problem, and keeps talking about the "World Class quality Champion breeding" behind the young stock.. These minis are priced high 2500. to 4000.) :new_shocked:

I even got a PM. after I posted this topic, from a forum member that purchased some minis, and also decided to get one that had this type of condition, as the breeder assured her that it wasen't permenant and also "emphisize the National Caliber bloodlines". The seller also went on to mention that "surely the horse would outgrow it", and it would not be a concern later.

The horse never did grow out of it, but insted got worse, and to this day that person does not even know what to do with this horse, that costs her so much more than her "perfect much less expensive" miniatures.. :no:

Nooka you have beautiful horses and thank you for setting the record straight on what people should look for as a perfect conformation standard in legs.

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