biting

[hollywood mini]

I have two B minis and one A. The smallest one is also the oldest, 2 years old. He tends to try to bite the other two often. He has not tried to bite me but did nip my daughter. Is this normal horse behavior or should I try to stop it. He is also the most loving of the three and readily comes to us for hugs. I know that biting a human should not be tolerated but what about his trying to bite the other two horses. How should we react to his attempts to bite or nip.

 

[Royal Crescent]

You did not say whether he is gelded or not. My 2 yr old last year got a dose of hormones quickly and he got gelded the next week.

Otherwise I have usually been told the the others will put him in his place. They work out their pecking order by themselves.

Barb

 

[Christina_M]

Yes, you are right biting a human should never be tolerated. If a horse purposely bites me, I make a big deal about it and yell loudly "no, you don't bite" while shanking the lead rope and backing them up, waveing my arms if I have to get them to back up. I want them to remember that biteing was not a good experience for them. Basically, that's what the horses higher in the hierarchy do to each other. They go after the other horse chasing them away. Since 2 of your horses aren't doing that, then they are probably lower in the hierarchy.

It is normal for stallions to bite at each other or gelding will sometimes bite if they are left as a stallion for a while before their gelded because then it's a learned behavior. If you have taught your horse "no" then you could stand out there where they are together and tell him no, but he'll probably bite them again when you're not there. Another option you could try is putting a grazing muzzle on him. This would help to break the "habit" if that is what it is. Does he bite only at certain times, like during feeding or just walk up and bite them because he can?

 

[Jill]

It is normal for horses to do this if they've not been taught to not do it. It doesn't mean they are mean, but it's very important to deal with it and swiftly.

I'd get a crop or a switch and as soon as the horse nips, swat hard on the shoulder or neck and say QUIT (not "no", sounds too much like woah). It'd work with the horses a few days and kinda tempt them to do it so that I could correct them. Swatting them with your hands will get you no where, but a switch or a crop will get the point accross.

Years ago, a member had her lip bit off (not bit, bit off) by a mini so it is VERY important to correct this issue and it's an easy fix, too.

Good luck!

 

[RebelsHope]

I always try to be careful when answering a question like this. It may seem rather straight forward but if I can not see the situation I am not really sure what happened. Horse behavior is not always simple and straight forward like the operation of a car. There are several reasons that a horse might bite, either each other or your daughter. I would handle them in different ways.

When did the biting occur? I have a stallion and a gelding together and they love to play. They mock fight, rear up, and chase each other. It is a hoot to watch, but in their play they bite each other. I will see little bits of hair missing, normally in winter when the hair is long. This is not something I am going to correct. They are horses acting like horses.

On the other hand I would not tolerate any bulling type of behavior if I was in the pen with them. If I had a horse that was to try and push one horse out of the way, bite or kick at another horse to get to me, or food I am putting out is a big no no. I would "get big" to this horse, or yell, wave my arms, and move into the horse to chase them off. You're saying to the horse, I am bigger and badder than you so you better get out of my way. In a herd that had this behavior typically I would take a whip in with me.

What was happening when your daughter was bit? I got a horse bite the other day, but from my draft horse. It was totally accidental, I didn't even know she really got me until later. My arm was by her chest and she went to nip at a fly and my arm was there. I smacked her chest and told her to "knock it off" I honestly didn't think she got me until later I looked at my arm and I have a little bruise. That was not a meaningful bite, she did not know my arm was in the way, she can't really see her chest now can she. Even still, I will not tolerate a horses teeth on me. Especially from a mouth that could take my whole hand.

The same draft mare will try to mutually groom me when I groom her. This is a typical horse behavior between two horse friends, they will stand head to tail and use their muzzle and teeth to "massage" each other . As I am brushing my mare's wither area, she will try and rub my back or scratch me with her teeth, like mutual grooming that horses do. I do not allow this. As cute as it is I could get really hurt, especially with the little teeth nibble they do to each other.

Now for the issue with your daughter. Were the horses tied or loose when she was bit? Did she have treats on her? Were the horse trying to bully other horses, or were they trying to get something from your daughter? Was she grooming the horse? Catching the horse? Just visiting in the paddock? Each of these situation would be handled differently. If the horses were loose then the getting big and scaring them off is effective, but if there are a lot of horses around your little girl I would be concerned they would spook into or over her (if she is a small child) trying to get away from you "being big." If they horse is tied, then you just want to be care with spooking the horse who may learn to pull back when tied, or be spooky when tied. I normally smack and say, "knock it off."

Is your daughter old enough to be in 4H? She would learn a lot about handling horses in 4H.

You may want to see if you can't get a few books on equine behavior to learn and little more about how a herd works. Think Like a Horse by Cherry Hill, The Ultimate Horse Behavior And Training Book by Linda Tellington-Jones, Horses for Dummies, and Horses Don't Lie: What Horses Teach Us About Our Natural Capacity for Awareness, Confidence, Courage, and Trust by Chris Irwin are some good starts.

 

[hollywood mini]

thanks for all the great tips. when he nipped my daughter, she was grooming him. I don't think he really bit because she didn't have a mark so I think it was more like a nip. I've only had them a short time and his previous owner siad he like to nibble to show he loves you. I've just tried to stay out of his personal space when I see his head going toward my leg or feet. I do see him going up to the other two horses and nipping/biting their lower legs. Both my boys are not gilded and I don't really want to do that unless I have to. So far, they are both very nice. The mare is the boss and let everyone know it. Also, the little bitter has lost half of his mane so someone has been biting at him. (I have not seen that at all) I kinda though some of the horse to horse biting was normal horse behavior.

 

[RebelsHope]

The kindest thing is to have them gelded, unless you have a reason to have a stallion. If you are new to horse ownership a stallion can be dangerous, even a small one. Stallions, by nature are more nippy than mares or geldings. They also are just more aggressive in general. Two stallions will fight over the mare when she goes in heat. If they are all kept together and she gets bred, you won't know who did the deed. Gelding is a simple procedure that your vet can do right on your farm. I highly suggest gelding both of them though if you are new to horses and unfamiliar with their behavior. The longer you wait though, the mores issues you will have, both behavioral and physical. I hate for you to wait until someone gets hurt before you geld.

From the description of the behavior, they are either fighting for the mare, or just playing. How old are the younger two? Your mare should not be kept with a stallion if she under 2- Some my quibble about the actual age, but if she in under two you definitely should not have her with a stallion. That is just too young to breed.

He could be losing his hair for several reason. He could be itchy for some reason and rubbing it off. They do this for several reasons. Worms, lack of proper grooming, mites, lice, etc.

How old is your daughter? She probably should not be handling a stallion. They can just be too unpredictable. If he is nipping while she is groom you need to be careful, watch him at all times. If he nips I would say, "KNOCK IT OFF" and slap him on the shoulder. He should react, but at the same time you don't want to cause tying difficulties. This is a serious problem that should be dealt with by someone who knows horse behavior. You may want to have an expert come out and how you handle the situation.

It sounds like you have a lot going on, maybe you could find someone in your area to come out and give you some horse handling lessons.

Your stallions may be sweet now but a stallion is unpredictable. I have a little sweet stallion. One day I had my farrier hold him while I ran to do something. I turn around to see my little sweet stallion rear up and strike out at my farrier. Who knows why? He has never done it since and never did it before. Luckily for everyone we were both experienced in handling horses and nobody got hurt. Something to think about is what if that was your little girl hold one of your stallions when he decided to do something like that?

 

[Bunnylady]

thanks for all the great tips. when he nipped my daughter, she was grooming him. I don't think he really bit because she didn't have a mark so I think it was more like a nip. I've only had them a short time and his previous owner siad he like to nibble to show he loves you. I've just tried to stay out of his personal space when I see his head going toward my leg or feet. I do see him going up to the other two horses and nipping/biting their lower legs. Both my boys are not gilded and I don't really want to do that unless I have to. So far, they are both very nice. The mare is the boss and let everyone know it. Also, the little bitter has lost half of his mane so someone has been biting at him. (I have not seen that at all) I kinda though some of the horse to horse biting was normal horse behavior.

Please, for the sake of yourself and your daughter, geld these boys. The sooner the better, IMO. If you know as little as this about horses, the last thing you need is STALLIONS! The mare may be the boss, but that 2-year-old will likely breed her, just the same. Rowdy behaviour is one thing, hormones are a totally different ballgame, and not one that I would risk my child's safety with.

By the way, you don't get out of a horse's personal space, he gets out of yours! Any horse that is coming after me with mouth open is gonna find out that it's a baad idea to nip me! I don't care if they are playing (I have a tomboy of a filly that was really mouthy) it just isn't allowed. You can be friends, it just has to be on your terms.

ETA: I would like to add to what RebelsHope said. 2 years old is too young for breeding, but not too young to get bred. There have been many yearling fillies that have become pregnant when being kept with colts their own age. You really don't want to deal with the equivalent of a tween-age mom along with all the rest of this. I'm sorry if I am coming across as cranky and alarmist (blame it on the migraine!) my intent is to give you a heads-up, to try to help you avoid more trouble later on. Minis can be lots of fun, but they are horses, and should be handled much as you would a "big horse."

 

[hollywood mini]

my horse has never "come at me with open teeth" He just tries to lip toward my shoes and I don't give him the chance to lip,bite or nibble. My daughter is 9 and has had two years of horse handling/riding lessons. I closly watch what she does with them. I have read/watched many, many books on horses too but the way any of us are going to learn is by experience. You all started out somewhere. You guys do come off sounding rather upity. I'm not a dumby just needed to know if I should try to stop their biting each other. Don't want to sound crase but you can give advice without making others feel unqualified or unworthy to own a few minis.

 

[Just Us N Texas]

Sorry that some of the replies made you feel that way. As you stated, we all have to start somewhere, and they were just trying to advise you about stallion behaviour. So many people treat the minis as large dogs, and we've all seen it happen, so when someone "new" to minis asks about stallion behaviour, we don't mean to sound uppity to you, but just trying to help you prevent some of the many accidents that all of us have experienced or know someone who has. A stallion, no matter his size, is considered one of the seven most dangerous animals in the world. Our little guys are maybe not as bad as a large horse, but can be dangerous just the same.

Please don't be offended, we're just putting down our thoughts and trying to give what we feel is good advice.

 

[Jill]

I'm sorry if my advice, or anyone else's advice, has offended you. I didn't mean to sound uppity at all and I don't think anyone else did, either. Just sincerely giving what I felt was good advice, as I feel others did, too.

One thing though is I've learned not to ask for advice from a big, public group of people unless I'm willing to not let it upset me, no matter what they offer as insight. When it comes to this and most message boards, you are going to find a huge range of opinions, knowledge and experience. Additionally, it's easy to read into the replies things that were not actually intended. I know that I've personally done that a time or two, and it's not usually a "happy" feeling...

It really doesn't seem to me that anyone on this thread meant to upset you, but rather hoped to give you advice that would help.

 

[Bunnylady]

Boy, I should definitely keep my hands off the keyboard when I have a headache! Again, apologies for being a bit blunt, but several things you said alarmed me. I, too, haven't a great deal of hands-on experience with horses. The vast majority of what I know came from reading, too. The important thing is to recognise your own limits. People frequently get into trouble with horses of all sizes, by not "owning up" to their own lack of knowledge or experience. I know that I personally have absolutely no business with a stallion!

In the big horse world, almost any male horse not being kept for the specific purpose of breeding is routinely gelded. People recognize how dangerous and unpredictable a stallion can be, and take care of the issue before it becomes an issue. Unfortunately, an awful lot of people don't take minis seriously. Just like some people and small dogs, they put up with behavior that would be terrifying in their larger counterparts, because it's "cute." A few years ago, I watched a friend of mine who had over 20 big horses being "given the business" by a mini gelding, and she was totally at a loss as to how to deal with it! This little guy had a truckload of "pony attitude" that someone had let him get away with, and she had never met that kind of sass before. These little guys are a lot of fun, but they are smart, and they will take advantage of you any way they can.

I have a daughter that is 8 years old. She gets attitude from all manner of animals around here, from rabbits to roosters. She knows how to handle it, but she still gets surprised and scared sometimes. She has been dealing with Syd (the man-eating, large B mini filly) for almost 2 years now, but sometimes she forgets that she still can't take Syd's good behavior for granted. I find Syd risky enough, there is no way I'd let her handle a stallion, even a young one. The only way I'd let an entire on the place, is if he was too young for the surgery!

 

[Littleum]

my horse has never "come at me with open teeth" He just tries to lip toward my shoes and I don't give him the chance to lip,bite or nibble. My daughter is 9 and has had two years of horse handling/riding lessons. I closly watch what she does with them. I have read/watched many, many books on horses too but the way any of us are going to learn is by experience. You all started out somewhere. You guys do come off sounding rather upity. I'm not a dumby just needed to know if I should try to stop their biting each other. Don't want to sound crase but you can give advice without making others feel unqualified or unworthy to own a few minis.

You were given GOOD advice by people who know more then you. No one accused you of being "dumb"- they accused you of being inexperienced and uninformed. That does not mean "dumb".

That just means inexperienced and uninformed. And you are both. But no one said you were "dumb"

I don't think anyone owes you an apology. I saw nothing uppity. I saw frank and honest. Just because you don't like the truth doesn't mean you don't need to hear it, for the sake of your horses' and family's safety & health.

 

[hollywood mini]

my horse has never "come at me with open teeth" He just tries to lip toward my shoes and I don't give him the chance to lip,bite or nibble. My daughter is 9 and has had two years of horse handling/riding lessons. I closly watch what she does with them. I have read/watched many, many books on horses too but the way any of us are going to learn is by experience. You all started out somewhere. You guys do come off sounding rather upity. I'm not a dumby just needed to know if I should try to stop their biting each other. Don't want to sound crase but you can give advice without making others feel unqualified or unworthy to own a few minis.

You were given GOOD advice by people who know more then you. No one accused you of being "dumb"- they accused you of being inexperienced and uninformed. That does not mean "dumb".

That just means inexperienced and uninformed. And you are both. But no one said you were "dumb"

I don't think anyone owes you an apology. I saw nothing uppity. I saw frank and honest. Just because you don't like the truth doesn't mean you don't need to hear it, for the sake of your horses' and family's safety & health.

Didn't ask for any appology. Just one responce got to me by saying that if I knew so little, I shouldn't have a stallion. All the other responces were great and appreciated. How does anyone know how much I know or don't know. I've seen plenty of simply, easy questions on the forum. No need to make anyone willing to learn, feel bad about asking. We are all here to help and to learn. I guess I took it wrong. How can we learn, if we dont experience. I do have a healthy respect for my minis and of course would never do anything unsafe for my daughter. Obviously, many people keep stallions so we'll do what needs to be done.

 

[Bunnylady]

How does anyone know how much I know or don't know.

Hon, the mere fact that you asked questions like those made it painfully clear how little you know!

 

[Little Bits]

The best thing you could do for the safety of your children and others is to geld your horses. I say this one because of yur lack of experence. It drives me crazy to see people with not much experence get young stud horses and spoil them. I live by the three strikes rule. The first time a hard slap and a no. The second time a hard slap and and scare them, the third strike is give them a beating that they may never forget. How much are you willing to put up with? A little nipping from a young horse should never be tollerated. The bigger they get the hard it is to controll, you need to nip it in the bud asap. Because of you inexperence you should geld them and have some fun and not have to worry about the next person they are going to bite. I hope I don't sound harsh but you'll appreciate them more without so aggression.

 

[RebelsHope]

I'm sorry if you were offended by my advice. Everyone does have to start some where. Those us that have been around the block a few times want to try and save you some of the headaches we have had to learn through. We have also seen many of the mistakes that new owners make and we would like to help you not to make them.

I don't know how much you know at all, nor do I know how much anyone else who is reading this knows. I don't want to assume too much. If you already know something, dismiss that information, maybe it will help someone else who is reading. I am not going to assume that you know the answer to your question though or else you wouldn't be asking it. Because this issue is such a serious one, I am going to take the way I answer it more serious too, as did others who have your best interest in mind and answered.

If the answers seem a little strong, it is because just a little nip can lead to a HUGE problem. A little stallion can lead to a HUGE problem and we really want you, your family, and your horses safe. The horse that comes at you with his teeth bared probably started with a little nip that was not handled the right way. My horses are not allowed to put their teeth on me, ever. If a horse was not tied and tried the little nip, I would make that horse think it would die, for about 2-3 second. Nipping is very serious. One of the reason I have such a well mannered friendly stallion is because during the time he reached sexual maturity, I didn't put up with anything. So now he knows that I am heard leader. With a gelding or a mare you have a little more leeway, but with a stallion you must be very clear.

 

[minglewood]

Stallions of any kind, mini or big horse, other then very young colts (and not even all of them), should not be handled by children, period. We have several stallions, all of the extremely well-tempered, your child could handle him variety, but we do not let children handle them-just a basic tenet of good horsemanship.

 

[hollywood mini]

I'm sorry if you were offended by my advice. Everyone does have to start some where. Those us that have been around the block a few times want to try and save you some of the headaches we have had to learn through. We have also seen many of the mistakes that new owners make and we would like to help you not to make them.

no need to be sorry, I'm the one who asked the question. I appreciated all the helpful advice, just thought one responce was a little put downish. (not yours) I didn't realize that my tiny stallion could become so dangerous. We will certainly take the necessary steps to keep everyone safe.

He hasn't actually bit anyone but his breeder said that he liked to "groom" his human. I have never given him to chance to even try that one on me. My daughter was grooming him and gave him a treat when his lips caught the edge of her hand. We will stop all feeding from the hand. I told her not to in the first place but hubby thought it was okay. Anyway, thanks again for the help