Airing "Dirty Laundry"

[Allure Ranch]

[SIZE=12pt]I'm not certain why the topic was removed. But obviously they have there own reasons.... [/SIZE]

Therefore, respectfully ask that under the circumstances that you don't repond to this subject matter so that it is NOT removed and everyone will know that I didn't request for it to be altered....

Thank you

 

[maestoso]

Personally, I think it should have been removed. It was being represented in a very biased and unfair manner. There was clearly missing information. Opinions, assumptions, and accusations were being made about the trainer in question. Frankly, it was slanderous. You are expecting the readers on this thread to take your side. There are two sides to every story, and it is unfortunate that readers have already hopped on the bandwagon, so to speak, and assume yours is the only side of the story.

I know who you had your horses with, and have more respect for him then most trainers out there. He has chosen not to respond to this matter on a public forum, and for that, I have even more respect for him.

 

[KanoasDestiny]

Personally, I think it should have been removed. It was being represented in a very biased and unfair manner. There was clearly missing information. Opinions, assumptions, and accusations were being made about the trainer in question. Frankly, it was slanderous. You are expecting the readers on this thread to take your side. There are two sides to every story, and it is unfortunate that readers have already hopped on the bandwagon, so to speak, and assume yours is the only side of the story.
I know who you had your horses with, and have more respect for him then most trainers out there. He has chosen not to respond to this matter on a public forum, and for that, I have even more respect for him.

If that's the case, I hope that no one else ever has a problem with a vet, farrier, groomer, trainer, judge, transporter, seller, buyer or any other situation that involves two sides, and decides to share their experience here (which happens on here alot). Unfortunately, it's always going to be one-sided to some degree. It's a shame that people can't openly discuss what's happened to them without being called biased.

 

[whimsical]

I don't post on here very often. But I would like to thank her for sharing her experience. It helps others to know what can happen out there and what to be watchful for.

As for it being slanderous......that is only true if the trainer can prove the accusation is not true.

And I personally don't think he should have to come on here but he should be caring for his client and giving a good explaination of what happened and why. And trying to make things right if indeed he can't prove his case.

That is the only way I would respect his integrity.

 

[maestoso]

My problem is not her sharing her experience, it is the assumptions that the readers are making without having all of the information.

Why should the trainer have to prove that the information is not true, when the poster hasn't proven that it IS true? Expecting proof works both ways . . .

Even if she has a vet statement and blood test saying that the horse is gelded(which may be true) that doesn't mean that the trainer is the one who gelded the horse.

It's fine that people have developed their opinions based Allure sharing her experience, but I think it is also important for all readers to be reminded that there ARE two sides to every story. Equally important, is for readers to know that there are people who highly respect the trainer in question.

 

[whimsical]

Unfortunately when you provide a service for a fee you have to abide by the customer is always right unless you can prove them wrong.

I am sure that she knows where her horse has been and who had access to him. I highly doubt that she would throw the accusations around without knowing who was responsible for his care at the time it happened.

It doesn't mean that mistakes aren't made that have a bad outcome. But it does mean that the trainer needs to care for his client enough to take care of the situation. I believe I read that he hadn't responded to her about her claim. I sure hope that has happened by now.

 

[loveminis]

Yes, there are two sides to every story and she was telling hers, just as she has every right to.

 

[osu_barrelracer]

I do not often comment on these types of things, everyone has their opinions on everything and everybody elses business.

However, I do NOT think the post should have been removed. No names were names publicly. This is a forum. You will hear people praising some trainers, farms, products, ect., and in the same boat, we always have people griping about the same in bad form. It is useful both ways. Other peoples experiences are a lot of what influence if someone wants to buy something or do business with someone.

In the same sense though, while this is a 'public' forum, it is 100% the choice of the forum/web-site owners if they do or do not want to allow a topic/subject to be discussed. Thats all there is to it, and there isn't any use beating a dead horse.

Either way, I hope that Allure gets retribution, one way or another (and yes i do believe there has to be more to this story that we aren't getting) it sounds like she was done horribly wrong. And, no matter what the issue, the trainer DOES have every responsibility to prove (to the horse owner) that the horse is exactly as he is supposed to be.

To the OP, I hope everything works out for you.

 

[HGFarm]

I feel that the farm posting here DID prove the point, with tests and an exam of the horse in question. I do not feel that it was 'baised' but rather stated the facts based on what the test results showed, without a doubt. The facts were the result of lab work done by a licensed veterinarian.

I dont see what is 'biased' about sending your horse off for training, having it shown all year as a stallion, paying for said training and show fees, to have the horse actually come home a gelding and getting all the show titles and points stripped away, and losing the money for a sale as a breeding stallion.

I know that I would not have handled it in nearly the thoughtful and nice manner that this person did. I truly feel for them, and hope that SOMEONE out there will tell them the truth.

I also found the information on the test results interesting and yes, a lesson learned for those that may send or think about sending their horses out to be cared for by others!!!

The bottom line is, their horse is gelded, and this is NOT something they requested or expected to 'find out the hard way'.

 

[targetsmom]

I am really sorry this happened and I can see why you are upset. Is there some lesson here for the rest of us?

I am not at all familiar with the test that was run and would love to know more about it. If I was ever thinking of sending a stallion to a trainer, should I have this test run first? Or should I have the test run if I am buying a stallion? I assume that was what happened here - that the person who wanted to buy Guardian asked for the test?? Or I am incorrect in that thinking? What is the supposed purpose of the test? Since most people who have a gelding will KNOW they have a gelding, it must be something a bit different than just showing whether a horse has been gelded??? And I am somewhat familiar with sperm tests, so I don't think it was to prove he is fertile. Should I offer the test if I am selling an unproven stallion??

Can someone please help me (and maybe other forum members) out here?

 

[~Lisa~]

Wow Matt I have heard a lot of things in this crazy world but a serial horse gelder sneaking into barns at night and pulling horses out - gelding them (obviously doing a decent job) is a new one on me.

But hey perhaps given that we need more geldings in this breed people will start leaving out milk and cookies for the serial gelder on the loose

 

[mizbeth]

Gee, I think I'm sorry I missed this post. So cannot comment, but I think I would have like to

B

 

[osu_barrelracer]

Wow Matt I have heard a lot of things in this crazy world but a serial horse gelder sneaking into barns at night and pulling horses out - gelding them (obviously doing a decent job) is a new one on me.But hey perhaps given that we need more geldings in this breed people will start leaving out milk and cookies for the serial gelder on the loose

I wish they'd sneak into my barn!!

Sure would save me the vet bill!

 

[Minimor]

osu_barrelracer--me too--there are about 10 out here that SHG (serial horse gelder) could take care of by this time next year.

Matt--you may doubt the test results--I don't. I can't imagine why anyone would come on a board like this & post a deliberate lie about test results that way.

If the test results are accurate and true, then the horse is a gelding. In that case, someone gelded him. Perhaps you believe the owner is lying, and are suggesting that she did it herself. If the owner didn't do it, and the trainer didn't do it (so you believe) then that leaves SHG. If SHG did it while the horse was at the trainer's, then trainer should have noticed that the surgical procedure had been done and notified the owner. If SHG did it while the horse was at home with the owner, I expect owner would have noticed and her post would have been worded somewhat differently. I can see the headlines--someone sneaked into my barn last night and gelded my colt. WHY would they do that???

Personally I think it was appropriate for Allure to post this topic--it's good for people to be aware of what "can" happen when they send a horse away to be cared for by someone else. Many people simply do not realize all the things that can go wrong when they entrust their horse to someone else. Quite honestly this is one thing I've never heard of happening before--and I've heard of a lot of weird and sad things that have happened to various people's horses at various times and with various trainers, breeding farms, lessees, friends, etc.

I really do recommend that owners visit their horses from time to time, just to check up on them and make sure the horse is being cared for as the owner expects, to check that that horse has all his parts and hasn't been injured, that the horse is actually still at the facility where he's supposed to be. I know a trainer who packed up and left town very suddenly--he absconded with some of his training horses, and some of the owners had a very hard time tracking down their horses. I'm not sure why he did that--well, I know why he left town, I'm just not sure why he wanted to take other people's horses with him, since after he split he was no longer getting paid by the owners.

 

[HGFarm]

I wonder if there is any way to make an appointment on purpose with the SHG or is it just random attacks? Maybe I could just post a sign out front by the road and the SHG will see it and know to stop by?? I agree, it would certainly save on vet bills! But I would be worried they would not get the right one, and that just wouldn't do.

Wow Minimor, a person up and left and took people's horses with them??! Now that is another scary thing to have happen!! I have heard of others yanking horses from barns where they were not being taken care of, have heard of folks showing up unannounced to find horses with no water in the heat of summer, and have heard of some that had horses die while in the care of 'trainers' and their hired help- but that is pretty bad to just pack up and move and take people's horses.

Perhaps Allure can repost the test and how it works and what it does show. I found the numbers and info interesting, and what a difference in the numbers on a stallion vs. a gelding, and whether the stallion is even a chrypt or not, etc.... I personally thought it was informative.

 

[MountainMeadows]

Allure has every right to be upset - her horse is not as she expected him to be upon his return from his training experience. I think what we should all gather from this thread is that ANYtime that you leave your horse in the custody of another you are basically entrusting that individual to treat that horse as you would -- sadly, this is not always the case -- many, many persons on this very board have had many, many negative experiences with their "trainer", "hauler", "farrier", "vet", etc, etc, etc - in each case the offended party truly believe that the other individual SHOULD have acted differently -- in many cases this is probably true. Allure has test results that indicate that her horse is no longer a "stallion" based on his various hormone levels ---

The questions I ask is: Could this condition be the cause of something different from an invasive gelding procedure? Could there have been supplements used that ARE often used to enhance a horse that could have contributed to his lack of certain hormones? Each individual is entitled to their own opinion, but trust me folks, there are 2 sides to every story. Perhaps it was just a huge mix-up and the wrong horse was pulled in haste and the procedure carried out without doublechecking.

Personally, I believe that the biggest disappointment to Allure is the fact that a trust has been shattered that was once a very strong bond built on mutual respect and satisfaction - it is my hope that both parties can come to an equitable resolution and move forward - perhaps on different paths, but forward nonetheless, and with contentment on both sides.

JMO - Flame away!

Stacy

 

[disneyhorse]

I like my stallion the way he is, but wouldn't be too upset if the Serial Horse Gelder stopped by and did it for free.

Just out of curiosity... why were "tests" run? Generally, once a stallion is gelded, there really isn't much more "there" except a flap of skin.

The only tests I have had run were for stallions which were gelded by the Amish, who are not always concerned with aesthetics of how it will look and there is scar tissue left, which turned out to NOT be retained testicles or tissue or anything which produced testosterone.

I must have missed something?

Andrea

 

[ErikaS.]

Okay, I'm going to risk sounding stupid but I'm confused: why did the ex-stallion have to be blood-tested to make sure he was no longer a stud? I have always understood that when a stallion is gelded his "parts" are removed making it quite obvious that he is now a gelding. Is there such thing as a vasectomy for horses?

I had to ask...and I still feel silly.

edited to add:Now I see disneyhorse posted the same question more or less.

 

[mydaddysjag]

I believe the horse is a junior horse, and they wanted to be sure there weren't retained testicles etc, to prove the horse was indeed gelded.