why oh why!?!

[MindyLee]

I swear at least once a month if not more, I get a phone call from a newbie who was PUSHED into buying a horse or 2 by a known breeder who tricked them into buying a nightmare toss off. I'm glad they call so I can help them, however, for these so called farms/breeders who have the greatest breeding programs and blah blah blah horses... seemed to take advantage of selling their nuts or untrained/handled, or poor conformation horses to newbies and convince them how great these horses are and how great their bloodlines are. Unfortunately, the newbies are being taken for their money and these breeders don't care... BUT do advertise all over their sites on how they breed for the best and how great horses they sell for good $$$!

MAKES ME SICK!!!

Seems like there are a few around that keep doing this and I feel sooo bad for the buyer cause I hear the same story over and over... "I told the seller what I wanted, they convinced me to buy this"... "Now what do I do cause I need help". "Its not at all what I was wanting"...

I wish all breeders where honest, and I know that will never happen, but man this sucks to get calls like this so often and try to help but not much I can do.

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

There will always be people who are more concerned with the sale than the outcome for the buyer, and the horse. I've always felt if it was a poor match that is going to reflect badly on me and it will not be a happy situation for a horse who deserves better. Of course when I was breeding I did not sell unhandled horses. Even the babies would lead, tie and pick up their feet before leaving. I know a woman who had several saddle horses but was still a bit green with horses and not overly confidant. She bought a mini mare for her special needs son and explained to the seller that all it had to do was be willing to hang out with him and lead well. The horse she got hated to be caught, didn't like grooming and was iffy on leading. The result was her son who had been so excited to have a horse all his own, lost interest in horses altogether. What should have been an opportunity to encourage him to find a little independence and to move around (better than physio) just made him sad because his horse didn't like him or anyone else.

 

[Jean_B]

Honestly, nine times out of ten it's because that newbie doesn't know one end of the horse from another - and THEY were the ones that turned it into a beast. It doesn't take a horse but a second to sense that the person at the other end of that lead rope doesn't have a clue ... and don't let anyone tell you differently ... that horse will take advantage of that. I sold a couple of weanlings that had been handled since Day One...both had been shown multiple times, handled by kids, shown by myself and others. The colt had been gelded. And within 2 weeks of them arriving at their new home, the filly was attacking them. She knew they could be buffaloed because every time she moved they went into a panic. I found new homes for them (not easy to do because I was in Wisconsin and they were out on the east coast) where that filly became a valued member of the family, trained to drive, etc. and is a true gem. And the gelding went to another home where he became a farm mascot. So my recommendation when you get these kinds of calls is to ask how much experience/training the OWNER had before they bought that horse and suggest the OWNER spend some time with someone who can train THEM.

 

[MindyLee]

Most of the time, I do/would agree with you Jean B, But when ya hear a few farms names repeated yr after yr for the same story, and a lot of these newbies are already big horse owners, its hard to think they are totally oblivious. I understand not everyone has common sense, but these so called great breeders, "if" really cared where their horses are going if seeing red flags should take note too. PLUS bloodlines dont make a horse but is sold on that as well from these farms with poor well noticed conformation.

I can say, most of these calls, are for colts that have been bought ranging from 4 months to 3yrs of age. So that dont help either...

 

[Lori W]

I also agree that a sale from our farm, whether the horse has our prefix in the name or not, reflects on us as responsible breeders and horsemen. We want to first match the handler and horse together - and if we don't have something that 'fits' their needs, we tell them so. We also want to keep in touch with the buyer, at least for the first several months, asking how are they doing, do they have any questions, etc.

As responsible people, we strive to always be honest about the animal and point out its flaws as well as its attributes, discuss the training the animal has had, the things it likes and dislikes, any special needs, etc. Most of our animals are sold to children so, under supervision, we want to see the child handle and play with the animal before the sale to understand their experience level (as well as that of the parents!). Many of our new sales are referrals from our previous ones and I feel that speaks volumes for our honesty and reputation.

Yes, there will always be those people who are only out there to make a buck and are willing to compromise their integrity to push or persuade first time buyers into the wrong horse. I feel sorry not only for the buyer, but especially for the horses who bear the brunt of this action. It's not surprising that they often end up on Craigslist or at auction when the buyers feel they've been duped and end up washing their hands of the whole 'miniature horse' experience.

 

[eagles ring farm]

It would be a perfect horse world if everyone handled their foals. We are small so we can take the time to work on feet and tying and leading.

But keep in mind some buyers prefer babies left without training.

We have bought 2 horses that were handled very little and they were not foals.

But we were happy with both purchases as the quality of the horses were just what we wanted for our breeding program

Both have come around fine with some work

But a newbee to horses especially where kids are involved should be told this up front, even if they don't ask.

We are fortunate all of our clients so far have been previous/or current horse owners, so they know what is involved in horse ownership

We are as honest as possible with a buyer as we want to know our babies will have a happy home, not to be passed around. And it does earn you a good word of mouth reputation. If a horse still needs work what's so bad about saying so. There is always more work to be done with a young foal

but be sure the buyer is aware and up to the challange. If not refer them to a friend who may have a mature horse that is just what they are looking for, what comes around goes around as they say.

We take pride in our horses and want only happy clients.

 

[Reble]

They should always do their home work, and ask a lot of questions.
The old saying buyer beware..
Newbies should read as much as they can and know what questions to ask before buying.
Just like the bigger horses newbies should buy a gelding first that has been handled etc..
Too many newbies, want to buy a mare with foal or a young colt or filly which in

the end, yes will have problelms.
All we can do is educate the newbies. and this is the place to do it...

 

[Jean_B]

Mindy, if they have big horse experience, that doesn't necessarily mean they know how to handle a horse. I mean that in all seriousness. I know a woman who has owned horses ALL her life (and she is now 70 years old!!!!) but doesn't know a darn thing about them. Oh, she knows that they need to be wormed on a regular schedule but gets hers done once a year (whether they need it or not). They never get a tetanus shot much less any other kind of vaccination. She knows that the first grass of spring and that spurt of growth in October is HOT and could cause founder, but she doesn't take them off pasture or allow them to adjust slowly, and half of her horses are foundered. She knows that standing in mud and manure for extended periods of time can cause thrush but does nothing to clean up the mess or move them to a dryer area after heavy rains. She knows that lots of grain for horses that are on unlimited, lush pasture is not healthy, but she likes how they love eating it....despite that they all have neck crests that are heavy and hard as rocks. She knows they should get their feet trimmed at least ever 3 months (they are on SOFT ground where there is no normal wear/tear keeping the growth in check) but gets them done only once or twice a year and then complains about the job the farrier does. She would rather just look at her horses than do anything with them...because she "loves" them. Well, in her case, she might just love them to death.

 

[REO]

WOW

 

[Tab]

I've been really blessed with great new homes and terrific horses, but it can happen where you sell a horse that does everything for you and then the new owner ruins it by the way it is fed or handled. For example, you take a calm horse that your kids can climb all over, you spoil it, put it on hot grains, stick it in a stall that it can't see out of, laugh at not-so cute behavior instead of correcting it, it can take a matter of weeks and that horse is ruined. But who gets blamed? The seller. Then you have the seller who drops foals in the pasture and never touches them or stalls them until weaning, the buyer picks one out of the "walsmart" farm stock and discovers that it's wild, dangerous, and frightened of its own shadow. Any variation in between. You still have a better chance buying through a private sale than at auction, and everything is better if both parties are explicitly honest. It's a tough call, the buyer has to "know thyself" and their handling capabilities before they ever start looking, and the seller has to know when to refuse a sale.

 

[bevann]

I can see both sides of the discussion.But IMO horses need to be handled at a young age.I bought horses from several different big name farms.1 young yearling(future breeding stallion was so afraid of people he had to be kept in a stall for over 3 weeks and wasn't feed his grain until he would walk up to me and eat if from a bucket.It took months until he would even let a human approach him in a large stall.I recently placed him in a new home as a gelding and he is making progress and may be drive soon, but it has been a long road and lots of patience.Another mare from the same farm was the same way. I am a firm believer that horses need to be touched so they associate humans with nice experiences.So many of the big farms have foals born in the fields, rounded up for weaning,shots and trimming(all traumatic experiences for a baby) and clipped for prospective buyers.Nothing positive for nice human interaction.If you get a novice owner=problems for the owner and the horse.

 

[MindyLee]

"I can see both sides of the discussion.But IMO horses need to be handled at a young age.I bought horses from several different big name farms.1 young yearling(future breeding stallion was so afraid of people he had to be kept in a stall for over 3 weeks and wasn't feed his grain until he would walk up to me and eat if from a bucket.It took months until he would even let a human approach him in a large stall.I recently placed him in a new home as a gelding and he is making progress and may be drive soon, but it has been a long road and lots of patience.Another mare from the same farm was the same way. I am a firm believer that horses need to be touched so they associate humans with nice experiences.So many of the big farms have foals born in the fields, rounded up for weaning,shots and trimming(all traumatic experiences for a baby) and clipped for prospective buyers.Nothing positive for nice human interaction.If you get a novice owner=problems for the owner and the horse."

THIS IS EXCACTLY IT HERE. YOU PRETTY MUCH NAILED WHAT THIS FARM DOSE. 100+ HORSES, NOT ENOUGH HANDLING IF ANY UNTILL SOLD.

This not a really bad farm by no means, they do/are good breeders for a lot of horses, however, with too many horses/foals, seems like every yr, foals are sold, are wild, and cant catch and are very spooky as well as some with not the greatest conformation sold as good show horses. In the buyers situation this time, 1 colt is awesome and great conformation. Was exactly what she wanted, the other colt that she was talked into because the seller was adamant that she had to buy 2 instead of a goat companion, is quit disappointed in him.

I can say there are several farms all around me that are also well known that I know that take great pride in their farm names and programs and would never just sell to make a sale. They are very confident in their horses, and sell totally trained foals/horses and their prices reflect on that along with their rep. Cudos to them and wish more folks around here did the same.

Again, I know this is not a perfect world, just was a lil bent when once again I recieved a call about issues from a buyer that was taken advantage of (in my opinion) by a farm who claims to pride on themselves. BUT there are always 2 sides of a story... Only heard one. So ya never really know.

 

[Riverrose28]

I've been on both sides of this discussion, my hubby bought a colt from a well known farm, even had our trainer look at this colt. Brought him home, he was to be shown, I couldn't get him to acclimate. He was an idiot, I went to worm him, he reared up and struck out, I went to give him vaccs. the same. Mind you he was still in quarenteen from just being purchased, hard to get a halter on, I had to chase him around the stall, and fear for my life, once turned out in the round pen, took two or three people to corner and catch. I finally got the vet out to evaluate, he is blind in his left eye, from am possable birth injury, also brain injury, possable from oxygen deprivation. So we spent thousands fixing his eye, he can only see shadows, then hand him gelded, it took five of us to restrain him. He is still not right, but after a few years of patience he is better, but is a burden to us, and I've offered to give him away, but since I'm an honest person, I can't find him a home.Sorry for all the typos, I'm on my grandsons computer.

Now for the other end, as if the above isn't bad enough, I had someone e=mail me this morning interested in one of my staqllions for sale, she is looking for a stable mate, and a mini to show in driving, well, I think I lost the sale, as I was once again honest, and told her I didn't think this staalion was her best choice, but would she be interested in some of my others? Well, I'm still waiting for a reply, I think I turned her off, but, I have to be honest or I couldn't live with myself.

 

[AngC]

hmmm... interesting discussion.

In desperation, when I needed a companion for my Nicky, I bought what could probably be described as a rescue ...sort of.

Coco was living with 4 other horses in a pen smaller than our garage. While we were there, she tried to attack the owner's boyfriend/significant other/whatever. The owner fed her Triscuits to coax her in our trailer. (after we brought her home, her poop smelled foul for a week; beats me what else they were feeding her.)

...probably not the best decision on my part. She is a big pain in the butt; she doesn't appear as though she had much handling.

BUT

She's ours now. And I love her to pieces; can't do much with her, but much as I hate the term, she's in her "forever home." And as a bonus, she cost less than most adoption prices I've seen for rescue minis and I didn't have to have a lawyer review some sort of contract that's 10X longer than my arm.

 

[Shari]

The farms I worked in the past, always had the foals halter trained, could brush, pick hooves and so on. What I consider as the basics.

Any horse I have sold, I am beyond picky about who got them. And I had to see it was a good match.

Even had people tell me all about Icelandic's and they are all perfect as per the internet.. seriously hate all the fluffy stuff some breeders have on their sites..... and this one lady wanted one of the mares I had for sale in the past, for her daughter.

Daughter that just started lessons. She became quite nasty to me, when I told her no... neither her or her young daughter would of been able to handle said mare and that no, not all Icelandic's are like what is written on the Net. Most of the ones I have owned or handle, have been high strung. If you know what you are doing they are wonderful horses... just not good for beginners.

The mare was hot and you really had to know what you were doing around her. Lady even offered me double the price I was asking... still said no. Knew if I let this mare go to this family, someone would get badly hurt.

Few months later a Lady came and saw this same mare... she was a super good rider, knew about Icelandic and this mare loved her. Perfect match.

Wish everyone that sold animals were picky who their animals went too.... and had them halter trained and not afraid to be handled. Would make it easier on everyone.

 

[HGFarm]

MindyLee I agree!!! And yes, when you hear the same names repeated over and over.... it gets old. Oh, the farm just 'forgot' to disclose some info- or the things that come out AFTER a sale is done and the person, whether a newbie or not, is now stuck with a monster or something that was not quite what was advertised... because some dont stand behind their horses either and refuse to take them back for any reason, even when it's a flat out lie.

Thank you, to the OP here, for being there to help them try to sort things out and learn, so MAYBE the horse will have a chance to be handled and learn some manners and have a real life where they are loved and valued.

I have known or heard of many folks being taken by less than honest sellers and breeders.... and yes, some of them were/are well known names. Once in a while, I can see a newbie or person without enough knowledge/experience get into a mess of their own making, but those seem to be outnumbered by those who get stuck with someone else's nightmare or horse who has been running out in a pasture for three years on a breeders farm that was only handled for things like worming and bare neccesities and has no desire to be around or handled by humans. Some of those horses are tough for even a very experienced person to handle! I would be ashamed if I sold a horse that I knew was too much for someone to handle. Someone could be seriously hurt and it might even be someone's child. NOT NICE.

 

[BSharpRanch]

I once sold a. 13 year old QH mare. I bred her dam and raised her. I was her trainer. I showed her. I loved her. I was all she knew. She was so quiet, so gentle, so willing.

I was able to visit her a couple years after I sold her. The people said that they thought they had been duped. She was violent when she was unloaded off the trailer. The got her into a barn stall, where she remained for 2 weeks. She charged anyone that came near, would turn around and kick the walls, would try to bite. I was in shock and could not believe what they were saying. They said then one day she was quiet. They could go in the stall, etc. They couldn't believe what a great animal she was. Sometimes we need to remember that they are not "just animals", but loving, thinking beings that are affected by things just like us.

 

[Suzie]

I agree with both sides of the discussion, but as a farm owner and breeder, I think it is my responsibility when someone new comes to me with a request to buy a horse to listen to what they tell me they want and try to find the best match for them. Sometimes that is an impossible dream. I know my horses better than anyone. If my buyer wants something totally out of my horses and I can't match them up, I need to help them find someone who can. I have done that many times. And I find that is paid back too. I have had people sent to my farm by folks who knew I had a certain horse that suited the buyer better. WIN/WIN for all. But I would never sell a newbie a horse that was unmanageable when they have never handled a horse. I provide them with information about AMHA, AMHR and other sources they can follow up on feeding and care. I give them at least a week's supply of food (hay and grain) so they can settle their horse in with more familiar food until they can switch over. I give them a halter that can be adjusted for growth if they by a growing foal (nothing like seeing a horse in a tight halter because the new owners can't find a slightly bigger one). Most importantly, I give them access to ME. If you have a question- call me, email me. There is nothing more frustrating than buying a horse and the seller drops off the face of the earth- they are always available before the sale and afterward they don't know you! (BEEN THERE MANY TIMES!). There are questions that come up days afterward that need to be answered sometimes. Important questions. Yes- this costs me some. In time and material. But I sleep well at night....and I have never regretted it one bit. We have spent many years trying to develop a good name. Well worth it to me.

I know I could sell horses and do all the bad things I hear about. But that is not me. I love my farm, my horses and my good name. You can't make everyone happy all the time and you will never get shady farms out of the business. The only thing you CAN do is be a reputible seller and you will eventually change some minds about things. Nothing travels faster than a bad name, even if a big farm.