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White or grayed out..how do I know

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wishful

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I posted to the thread few spots apps, not sure if mine qaulified or not and I still dont know. Had a couple of folks say they were grayed out and they may be i dont know thats why I am posting this thread. I would like everyones opinion. Can they be tested for the gray gene? cause know i just really want to know.

The colt is white with pink skin, black molting and when wet you can see qauter size balck spots over his hips and chest, he has white hooves. He is a spitting image of his sire which was sired by dell teras eagle.

the other is a mare, she is also white with pink skin and black molting, she has black and white striped hooves. Her sire is (per the studbooks , a black pinto komokos Little blue boy) So genetical i guess she would be a pintaloosa.

I raised the minis for a little over four years until birthing became to stressful. I had a true grey stallion,white/black hooves/gray skin, and everything he sired turned or is in the process of turning gray.

Here's a question, if a horse carries the gray gene can it be canceled out , if you breed a horse with the gray gene to a horse that was homozygous for black which gene would be dominant!!??

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Sue_C.

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A few spot, is BORN a few spot...it doesn't change. A grey horse will be born one colour, later turning to grey.

Appaloosa colours

"The few spot is produced only from an Appaloosa to Appaloosa breeding where as at least one parent is a leopard".

What colour was this mare when she was born. If both parents not appy, and one a leopard, she cannot be a few spot. I surely can see the appy gene shining through though...just look at all her mottling!!

I had a true grey stallion,white/black hooves/gray skin, and everything he sired turned or is in the process of turning gray.
Bummer, that is the reason I do not want a grey stallion...love the colour, but don't want all foals the same colour.
 

mizbeth

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Yes those spots on her nose could be from gray, sabino or appy gene. Since she is appy, it could easily be appy.

White horses have pink skin and gray horse have black skin. You should get 50% from gray to non gray breedings that will turn gray. RED would be the best chance to breed a gray to - to cancel the gray gene so to speak.

Breeding gray to black or bay pinto will only give you a black or bay pinto, or other color pinto with a 50% chance of turning gray.

Good luck! I have a gray mare and I LOVE her. She produces some of the nicest babies of any mare I have, and on a consistant basis. Each one is show quality.

If the baby is nice, it does not matter to me what color they are. They need presence, look at me, upheaded, long necks, a t t i t u d e etc in any color to catch my eye!

Beth
 

wishful

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What colour was this mare when she was born
I dont know what color she was when she was born, I just got her this year.

The colt however was born white with some black around the top of his hooves and outlineing his ears.
 

hobbyhorse23

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Here's a question, if a horse carries the gray gene can it be canceled out , if you breed a horse with the gray gene to a horse that was homozygous for black which gene would be dominant!!??
No. Gray is a dominant gene, it overwrites EVERYTHING if it is present. All having a homozygous black parent would do is ensure that your possibly gray baby starts out with some color involving a black gene!


mizbeth said:
You should get 50% from gray to non gray breedings that will turn gray.  RED would be the best chance to breed a gray to - to cancel the gray gene so to speak.
Breeding gray to black or bay pinto will only give you a black or bay pinto, or other color pinto with a 50% chance of turning gray.
Why on earth would red have anything to do with "canceling" the gray gene?? Gray is a modifier gene that works over any other color. No matter what, baby gets the normal body color genetics that each parent carries (and which you can no longer see on the gray parent). Then he has a 50% chance of getting the gray gene. If he doesn't, the normal base color shows up and stays there. If he does, he eventually fades from that base color to gray/white.

If you are trying to eliminate possible colors from your prospective baby for some reason, yes, breed a chestnut to a chestnut. You can only get chestnut from that cross. But it has no effect whatsoever on that 50% chance of your baby turning white.

Side note- isn't it possible to get a chestnut from crossing a bay or black to another such? And if you don't know what color that gray horse was before it turned white, you could get anything from a cross like that. Cream gene, dun, silver, anything! And then there's the whole issue of if the baby would get the pinto gene at all, and in what amount, and and and.....
Aren't color genetics fun?!


Leia
 
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Sue_C.

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I have a gray mare and I LOVE her. She produces some of the nicest babies of any mare I have, and on a consistant basis. Each one is show quality.If the baby is nice, it does not matter to me what color they are. They need presence, look at me, upheaded, long necks, a t t i t u d e etc in any color to catch my eye![/QUOTE]

Oh for sure...I would have a grey mare, there is a definate difference in getting one foal a year, with a 50% chance of greying, than a 50% chance of all my foals going grey.

I didn't say I would choose colour over grey, no matter the "presence, look at me, upheaded, long necks, a t t i t u d e etc "...they can definately have all of that...and not be grey.


Then too, I have gone through the heart-ache of a grey horse living long enough to develop malignant Melanoma...and from what I have read, and been told, 75% of all grey horses, if they do live long enough...will get Melanomas. Not all will have the malignant form, of course.
 

wishful

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I just got off the phone with evelyn and she said the colts dam is a white mare. I have attached a picture of his sire. Yep, I'd say ya'll are right again, the servay says gray.

 

mizbeth

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Yes, "cancel out the gray - so to speak" was a poor choice of words.

I appreciate your pointing that out to me...........

Beth
 

Ashley

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You should get 50% from gray to non gray breedings that will turn gray.
NOt neccessarly. You could have a gray horse that never throws a gray. We have a gray mare, who has had 3 foals for us now. We bought her mother who had 3 or 4 foals for us, and she was the only foal that was gray. WE have bred this mare to our buckskin stallion 3 times. She gave us a bay, buckskin, and a black. NONE are gray or will be gray.
 

Miniv

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A horse that has the graying gene is always born its original color. Unless it was originally supposed to be a cremello or perlino or appy, the skin underneath would be dark.

A horse with the graying gene does not always throw the graying gene unless it is homozygous for it. If it is NOT homozygous for the graying gene, then there is 50/50 chance the offspring will turn gray.

MA
 

Sue_C.

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You could have a gray horse that never throws a gray.
Don't think there is any such thing...some horses don't grey till later. I have seen some grey even as mature horses 5-7 years of age...but it happened.

A horse with the graying gene does not always throw the graying gene unless it is homozygous for it. If it is NOT homozygous for the graying gene, then there is 50/50 chance the offspring will turn gray.
Right, as I have known it to be. This is one reason that the Appaloosa Registry does not (unless it has changed since I raised them) accept grey horses for registration. There are many breeds of horses and ponys that are fast becoming "one coloured breeds" because of this greying gene. Around here, it is very difficult to find a Welsh pony that isn't grey or turning grey by maturity. Look at the Andalusian, and Lippizan (sp?) they are pretty well a grey breed.

OOPS...way off topic anyhow, sorry to steal this "wishful". by the way, isn't it possible that the stallion of your mare is a few-spot as well, or not?
 

hobbyhorse23

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Ashley said:
You should get 50% from gray to non gray breedings that will turn gray.
NOt neccessarly. You could have a gray horse that never throws a gray. We have a gray mare, who has had 3 foals for us now. We bought her mother who had 3 or 4 foals for us, and she was the only foal that was gray. WE have bred this mare to our buckskin stallion 3 times. She gave us a bay, buckskin, and a black. NONE are gray or will be gray.
Ashley, you're quite correct that you can go for a whole bunch of foals in a row without getting a single gray.
But each baby has two options- gene, or no gene. Therefore they have a 50% chance of either option, per baby. Each breeding is a separate toss of the dice so it is quite possible for the answer to be "no, no, no, no, no, no, no, GRAY!" LOL

Sue_C. said:
This is one reason that the Appaloosa Registry does not (unless it has changed since I raised them) accept grey horses for registration. There are many breeds of horses and ponys that are fast becoming "one coloured breeds" because of this greying gene. Around here, it is very difficult to find a Welsh pony that isn't grey or turning grey by maturity. Look at the Andalusian, and Lippizan (sp?) they are pretty well a grey breed.
Man, make gray sound like a disease why don't you! LOL. The Lippizan is mostly a gray breed because they breed for that. It's one of the distinctive hallmarks of the breed and always has been- "The White Stallions of Lippizan." Appaloosas could technically be considered a one-color breed as well: spotted.
Grays come in almost as wide a variety of patterns and shades as appies do spot patterns. Andalusians, Welshes and Arabs have always had a high percentage of gray horses; I don't think it's recently overwhelmed all other colors or anything. There's just a lot of gray horses in those breeds being bred, so the level stays pretty high.

I come from an Arab background so I can't help but giggle at this whole thing. Arabs have four predominant visible colors- gray, chestnut, bay, and black. (Of course the grays all start out as one of those other three.) We don't have a problem with this! Each baby is uniquely marked with white and is gorgeous, turning gray later just shows their bone structure better. And gray can be so beautiful! All those dapples and soft shimmering colors....aahhhhh. ::shakes herself out of reverie::

Anyway, I like grays.
Wishful, your sire you pictured appears to be a normal gray, assuming that's dirt on his knees. If your colt was born white, chances are he may have something else going on at the same time. Especially since you say "The colt however was born white with some black around the top of his hooves and outlineing his ears." Grays (or at least grays who are not also born maximal sabino or leopard appy!) wouldn't have the ear thing, nor would they be white at birth. You also said he had light hooves, so he at least has white markings on his legs of some kind. He could be an appy, he could also be an appy with gray! What a fun fellow to figure out. The mare, honestly, I have no idea on. Her muzzle makes me think "appy," but then again I think I've seen Lippizans with muzzles like hers. I just don't know!

Leia
 

HGFarm

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Sue C., you are correct about ApHC- that rule about no breeding to grays was passed in the early 70's if I remember correctly. I do not incorporate any gray genes in my herd because I want the color to stay. I have seen horses gray out from 4 months old to several years old. This is a totally different gene than the roaning genes that you see a lot of Appies get.

Yes, a few spot is born that way. A gray is most times born dark black, bay or ..... and turns.

You can get a chestnut from even crossing two blacks, but a chestnut to a chestnut will always give you just that.
 

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