What does AMHA need to do to survive?

[Margot]

I started showing about fifteen years ago. I went to one show to watch than took a horse to the next one. Most people were very helpful in helping with tips and how to show, clip and groom. At that time NY State had a series of shows that were R one day and A the next so I showed in both. I think the AOTE classes do offer new people a better chance to compete. Ammie classes in both A and R are full of people who are legally amateurs according to the rules but many are as good or better than trainers as they have been showing for years but few of them show in AOTE. I have showed dogs and cattle and it is the same problems or worse. try as they might the registries will never be able to offer a really level playing field. Maybe because I already had experience showing other animals I just did not expect too much but still had a lot of fun showing and even won sometimes against the big boys. We did all our own training, conditioning and showing, now because of various family problems I have sent some horses to trainers and just show them, it is still fun for me. If I did not do this I would not be able to show at all. Both registries have their problems, I still would rather show A because of AOTE but there are no A shows as close to me as R shows and I can't go very far from home. Just go enjoy and don't expect to win LOL.

 

[shelia]

This sounds great! I wish our area would offer something like this! We do have some schooling shows, but they are not on the same week end as the shows.

New people are our future.

All the AMHA shows I have done in New England have non-rated classes for newbies - either Novice Adult and Novice Youth - with some nice awards for High Point or Supreme Halter horse - or Mentored Beginner classes where an experienced person goes into the ring with you to give you pointers, but cannot touch the horse. For example, they can tell you if the horse is set up best or is too stretched, when the judge is coming, and just offer moral support. Sounds like just what Shelia would like. And as said earlier on this thread, one Club has added 4-H classes and these are very popular.

 

[targetsmom]

If you want these classes in your area, talk to the Clubs that run the shows or start a club and set it up yourselves. It is not rocket science, but it is work to find a location, hire judges, find a show manager, etc.

 

[wpsellwood]

We show in both registries, but usually only show at one World or National show, cant afford to do both. The last 7 yrs we have gone to the World show, but last year did send a colt for the sweepstakes. I have another one eligble for this coming year too, and all are eligble for the AMHR futurity. I think the AMHA does an excellent job on the amt program. The reason why we generally chose the world show. If you lump all the classes together like are at the AMHR I think you will find that the classes would be the same size. For instance AMHR as Amt Jr mare, AMHA has Amt jr mare level 1 30 and under level 2 30 and under 30-33 level 1 and 30-33 level 2, AOTE jr mare level one and two. When I show AMHA I can show 3 in amt instead of only one in AMHR I honestly find it funny that new people dont start out in the AMHA as they dont have to show with all the pro-amts (dont know what else to call it) AMHR does a great job of keeping the show costs down, at local level and national level. They have place to show horses in the over division, if you have one that might slip over (if you have a under breeding program) I really dont see the AMHA going anywhere. I personally believe its the economy, and its less to show AMHR and get qualifed in all classes in just 2 shows.

 

[Magic Marker Minis]

We're very new at this... We have AMHA and AMHR horses. For the past couple of years I've heard "you'll have more fun at AMHR" and AMHA is 'hoity-toity.' But, I prefer the 'real' (tongue in cheek) Miniature Horse... as in those that are below 34" - actually prefer them 32" or below as long as conformation is solid so AMHA would be the way to go... But, I'm a 'beer' pocketbook mini owner so I don't have the money to compete in AMHA. Heck, I was going to show some minis at an AMHA show in Scottsdale this month... until I got the premium! Holy crap! Just to bring a horse onto the show grounds was $25! Then, $6 to AMHA, then $6 to the 'office' whatever that is, and then, just one show was either $25, $30 or $35... That's $62 - $72 for one horse in one class! I live in Tucson, so I'd have to drive about 2 hours, spending about another $50 for gas. I couldn't even drive up and then drive back, instead of renting the stall, which would have been another fee (can't remember what the stall fees were as I've already thrown away the premium).

I've also heard that AMHR 'overlooks' the small ones in their shows... so where the heck do I go? Most of our show horses are between 30" and 32". My senior gelding is 33". One of the broodmares is 32.5" and one of my newest show horses is 26.5" at 2-1/2 years. She may mature to 27.5". And, I plan on teaching her to drive as soon as she's old enough/strong enough, but, there again, I've heard a truly small horse won't be able to compete against the bigger driving horses in AMHR, especially those with Hackney breeding.

So, I ask where do I go? Heck, I don't even know where to start! Sometimes I feel like a 'cat looking at a king.'

Kari Masoner

Magic Marker Minis (we're so new our wings are still wet!)

Tucson, AZ

 

[targetsmom]

Maybe it's time to drag out the proposal I sent to Mary Lou and various other places a few years ago. Have the registries do something like Pinto does with their OCAP - Open Competition Activities Program, where they track points on registered pintos that compete in OPEN shows and have a form signed by the secretary. It is up to the competitors to get the classes added to the Open shows, and get the show added to the approved list, and then of course, get the fomm signed and sent in. One of the keys is that only certain classes are allowed, and only a single halter class, which will pretty much rule out big farms and trainers. If AMHA did this and then offered lifetime awards like Pinto does, I bet you would see an increase in the number of people showing, and even more interest in minis as they are seen by "big" horse people at these Open Shows.

See: http://www.pinto.org/ocap.html for more information and scroll down for list of classes for miniatures.

Okay, off my soapbox.

 

[JMS Miniatures]

AMHR still has the under division where it limits to 34" and under. Sure it is going to be harder to compete in the halter Grand Championship classes if your under say 30" but I've heard the same when it comes to AMHA. It can also be harder to show in driving if you are also under 30" if they aren't divided by height but again it can be the same way with either registry. The only thing you can do is try. If you have a good horse you won't get over looked. Yes AMHR is more inclined towards the shetland influence but you get into that more so in the over division then the under and also once again the Supreme Halter Horse at AMHA Worlds once again this year was a shetland so you can't run away from it. Also halter may not be for everyone so look into performance, do some obstacles, and hunter/jumper, driving it doesn't matter how tall you are. Also I have to say in AMHR they have the roman chariot class and height isn't divided so it's for everyone 38" and under and it had shetlands in that class, the one who was reserve was only 29", sure he wasn't the fastest but he did awesome and judges noticed so no the little ones aren't always over looked.

And targetsmom AMHR does have a program similar to what you are describing and thats the Amateur Companion/Excellence Program.

http://shetlandminiature.com/member-services/forms/item/amateur-companionexcellence-program.html

 

[DJF Miniature Show Horses]

To sfmini. I professionally groom my own horses. Used to be a pro groom for hunters and dressage horses in CA. I am a retired trainer so will never need to send my horses out. I to live in a cold climate and refuse to bodyclip till spring. My horses are well conditioned!

Im not showing fugly pot bellied minis. My current horse looks exactly like his Bond Dynamo grand dad. Is perfectly squared up. No cow hocks no sickle. My horses sire is a western regional champion in the past and top five at AMHA worlds. My horses are very nice...

AOTE is suppose to be" trained by the exhibitor" as stated in the rules. You said just like these 3 offenders said about having a "trainer".

I am not getting a great impression of AMHA at all! The horses winning today look like anorexic shetlands. The prices as stated by magic marker minis is exactly how I feel "the little guy".

The impression Im getting in AMHA is its all about money...

I too have shown dogs in AKC, goats in ADGA, Paints and QHs in CA breed shows, NHSRA, GRA pro barrel racer, Guinea pigs in ARBA and NAMSHA.

I have had great success whatever Im showing in.

I am not the "average" amateur. Thats why I thought AOTE was a good fit for me.

I am not afraid to show against the pros or their amateur trained horses. Im disillusioned by the fact that AOTE is not playing by the rules and people showing in it are not following the rules annd see nothing wrong with that.

All these answers on the forum are only confirming to me what I am seeing. To win at any cost and to heck with the rules!!! Little people like me are no longer the foundation of AMHA. Its all about big bucks.

To make the shows more attractive and affordable Judges need to judge by the rulebook. Stop placing people that are clearly breaking rules. Judges set the standard that others will follow. People are stretching and baitibg in halter. Rulebook clearly states "no baiting or stretching" but judges keep making champions out of these offenders. I could go on and on....

Im going to go to a AMHA show next summer 4 hours away. Gas and lodging and show fees. Looking at 475.00 for everything only one horse. After my experience at this show I will decide wether to remain with AMHA.

I also show pinto. I have no problems with this affordable association. We have no local AMHR shows. Interested in them....

 

[DJF Miniature Show Horses]

In this down economy shows can cut costs by going back to having one judge. Then more people can afford the entry fee.

The Paint-O-Ramas in CA in the late 70s started the multi judge system. I didn't like that back then because the entry fee's went way up.

 

[JMS Miniatures]

The problem with having one judge it doesn't help much when it comes to qualifying for Worlds or Nationals. Especially considering when it comes to qualifying for the World show when you must show under 6 judges and with the lack of shows having shows go do one judge the show itself may not be profitable as exhibitors may not feel it would be worth the drive. Also I can really speak only for AMHR many people show for points all-star or Hall of Fame and it would be hard to gain much points under one judge.

Now with that being said if you and others can come together and try to plan one out as others have mentioned like at fairs, local arenas just have one day shows it may work. But you have to find a way to get people in and I think fairs would be a great place to start to try and get new people to watch and possibly be interested in miniatures. One of my favorite shows I've been to was a 1 judge performance only show that was for one night out doors. Also for AMHR State and local fairs can be triple points but maybe someone else can give you more info on that.

Like others said it is not the responsibility of AMHA or AMHR to try and put on shows, it is the clubs, contact your local club and ask them what will it take to get a one judge show, or to lower entry fees. Perhaps just a clinic show the clubs can put on early part of the year and it can be like a fuzzy show or what ever and have one judge there and put on a actual show for points and the judge can explain why he picked this way and help exhibitors what they can improve on before the start of the real show season.

 

[Minimor]

Dropping down to one judge won't be profitable for shows.people want extra judges for points and for qualification--and for the extra chance at a ribbon. If one judge doesn't like your horse, the other two might--with just one judge you have only one chance.

Fewer people wil attend a single judge show--instead they will haul further to a multiple-judge show. The single judge show takes in less money and so needs higher fees to pay for itself.

 

[Suzie]

I totally agree with JMS. We have just recently started a club in western NC and one of the priorities we have is having clinics where we can train folks to have fun with their minis and then they can possibly go on to sanctioned shows in the future. If you do not have a grass-roots approach, the interest will wane and the registries can close the doors down the road. Folks need to have every opportunity to attend clinics on grooming, breeding, care and showing whenever they can be arranged.

Our club started with the idea of putting the fun back into shows. We are affliated with AMHR because they had no requirement for us to sponsor an AMHR only event to be affliated and were the most supportive of our venture. AMHA has more requirements that we just cannot fulfil at this time in our club budget, so they will go on the back burner for a while. There was a lot of interest from people who did not feel they were ready to step into a ring against professionals, but wanted the "show" experience anyway and we hope to open that door for them.

I was disappointed that some of the more established clubs in our area declined to post or promote our clinics on their websites. Information about clinics and mini events, whether or not directly sponsored by your club, should be shared with as many folks as possible. You never know where the next show participant or mini buyer will come from. If the American miniature horse is to survive in this economy, we need to think out of the box, not exclude people from the box...

 

[Margo_C-T]

Amateur: I recall when AQHA first offered 'Amateur' classes(I am old, and liked QHs back WAY before all the current 'crap'...). I was HUGELY disappointed when I realized that ALL that was going to mean was that an 'amateur' would actually take the horse into a class, while EVERYTHING else could(and almost always WOULD) be done by a paid trainer; this when an old guy w/ lots of money and who could barely stay on a horse won BIG, for several years, in the "amateur" division, after its inception. That is how it IS, like it or not, in every horse breed organization I am familiar with. Though I have had occasion to be paid for training, I did not continue along that path(and 'laid out' the prescribed period of time afterwards), and since I have always trained and shown my OWN, qualify as a 'real' amateur.

AOTE is certainly a step in the right direction, though as was said, depends on personal integrity that is too often somewhat lacking in these times.

Multiple judge shows are really the best deal for the money, even with their inherent drawbacks. In these times, it just makes sense to not have to travel as much to quality for the national-level shows.

After reading Jean's post, I need to add...here, at least, where I was deeply involved for years w/ the annual AMHA show sponsored by the NM AMHA-affiliated mini horse club,a LARGE part of what 'drove' having a multi-judge show was the 'attendant' costs...of a nice, and adequate(stalling, indoor arena, etc.) facility, adequate workers, even dates to obtain such a facility, and the like. I would have been PERFECTLY happy to have simple ribbons, but my opinion on that did not prevail! In a relatively small, membership-wise, club, having enough 'volunteer workers' is always an issue;most wish to show, not 'work, work, work' running the show, like it or not, these days.

Multi-judge shows sure aren't the perfect solution...just what seems the'best' solution under the circumstancess.

Margo

 

[Jean_B]

Gosh I hate those arguments about this organization is better than the other or visa versa. VERY VERY counter-productive!!

Very few AMHA shows being offered because it’s just not profitable to hold one. (Same holds true for AMHR.) Cost of shows is driven by the number of judges, the office fees per horse, fancy trophies (which I never cared about because they just collect dust and I HATE housework, I preferred SIMPLE ribbons that I would give back at the end of the show) etc. etc etc. REPEAT – NUMBER OF JUDGES. When I was putting on shows years ago the cost per judge was well over $1,000 per judge (judge's fee, transportation, hotel, meals). Put on a 4-judge show and the cost was close to $5,000 just for judges! I shudder to think what the cost is now!

I was raised showing Registered Holstein cattle. One judge. When I first told my family about multiple judge shows – the question was, “Well, then how in the heck do you know who the Grand Champion for that show was?” If you tried to explain that it really is like having 3 (or 4) shows at once, their response was, “Well, that’s just STUPID.” And it is!!

And so is the argument that you need to have all those judges in order to qualify for World (or Nationals….listen up ASPC BOD). Instead of a requirement of the # of judges….just change it to the number of qualifying shows. Period. NOTHING about the number of judges. Oh my gosh! It's a SIMPLE equation!

And the argument that people won't go to a 1-judge show? Horse puckey! People go to shows for many reasons, the LEAST of which is points. The majority go for the comraderie, to get their horses out in front of others, and to have a good time...and oh yeah....points are nice as a bonus.

Clubs and individuals putting on shows would breathe a HUGE sigh of relief, and more shows would be put on, creating more opportunities to show, and points.

Will this alone “save” AMHA? No, but it would make it more accessible to the masses, which could in turn lead to more people staying active in the organization.

 

[wpsellwood]

I am not getting a great impression of AMHA at all! (From some reason it wont quote) Anyhow, if it makes you feel any better. Apparently there was an amt showing and won, and it was brought to the committes attention that this person wasnt an amt. It was proven and this person lost his/her awards. I think its just hard to regulate unless you have concrete proof so you have to catch people in the act.(pictures, documentation somewhere) I know there are many rule breakers in the AOTE program, people are always telling me so and so clipped their horses for them, but if I dont see it I cant do anything about it. The sad thing is, if you do something about you are the bad person, and you arent the one even cheating!!! You would think you would want to do it all yourself and be proud of your accomplishment not take credit for someone elses. Thats why there is amt level 1 and 2. Go there.

 

[Field-of-Dreams]

I showed AOTE this year. Did all my stuff myself, from clipping to training to whatever needed done. And the sad thing- it was for ONE class at Centrals and ONE class at Worlds. (He's a 2YO)

IF (and it's a big IF) I do AOTE next year I'll have TWO classes to show in if I drive him. TWO. Meanwhile, no one else can play with him, drive him, my youth can't show him, bathe him, whatever. For TWO classes.

To me, it just isn't worth it anymore. I like to share my horses with others, let the kids play with them, show him, drive him in parades and fun days and such. The girls love to show prep our horses- can't let them do that with an AOTE horse. So, I'll probably skip those classes next year. Shame- there was only four in my Worlds AOTE Jr Gelding class and ONE in the Central AOTE Jr Gelding- me.

 

[targetsmom]

I think the CONCEPT of AOTE is great, but I can't show in those classes either because our minis are used for our 4-H Club. Instead, I prefer to show in the Open classes at Pinto shows and am not intimidated by those pro trainers. But they only offer 2 open mini halter classes, so no big name farms compete. Actually, we probably bring as many minis as anyone!

I think the bottom line is that we all want to compete against "people like us" where the competition is relatively even, and fair, and where you don't know ahead of time who will win. At a lot of our Pinto shows (I do points so see all the judge's cards) you will often see classes where one judge places someone first and another one last in a class of 6, with the other placings also mixed up. That way more people win and go home happy!

 

[HGFarm]

Just an FYI, you do not have to be a club or in a club to put on a show. Anyone can put together a show and get it approved by the registry.

 

[Charlotte]

"" I can't show in those classes either because our minis are used for our 4-H Club. ""

""it was for ONE class at Centrals and ONE class at Worlds. (He's a 2YO)

IF (and it's a big IF) I do AOTE next year I'll have TWO classes to show in if I drive him. TWO. Meanwhile, no one else can play with him, drive him, my youth can't show him, bathe him, whatever. For TWO classes. ""

Where on earth does this misinformation come from???

Doesn't anyone read the rule book????

The above two quotes are totally WRONG. That AMHA AOTE horse can show in any Amateur or Open class he is qualified for or Youth classes with a family member.

You can show that AMHA AOTE horse at any and all 4-H shows, saddle club shows, PtHA shows, AMHR shows and your kids and all of your family members just about back to the monkeys can show him too. AS LONG AS he isn't handled or groomed or trained by a professional (a professional is someone who takes money for working with horses)

Doesn't anyone read the rule book? Page 144 of the 2012 AMHA Rule Book. AND, if you have any questions contact a member of the AMHA Show Committee (get their contact info from the office if it's not on the web site)

 

[targetsmom]

Well, I would certainly like to think that my statement was wrong, and I will check with AMHA. I was going by this on page 144 in the rule book:

a. AOTE Requirements

The horse exhibited by the AOTE must be trained,

conditioned2, groomed1 and shown ONLY3 by the

AOTE or a nonprofessional family member in all

divisions entered. Non-professional family

members are defined as: spouse, mother,

father, brother, sister, niece, nephew, son,

daughter, grand-child, grandparent, legal

ward, in-laws, step-children, step-parents and

step-siblings. No one with a professional trainer

in the household or on premises may compete in

the AOTE division.

Since our 4-H members are not related to us and they will be showing in 4-H classes in which THEY need to have clipped, groomed, etc, I assumed none of these horses could be shown AOTE by me. Of course, we own them, as far as AMHA is concerned they are not leased, and they will not see a pro trainer. We plan to have the kids show them in AMHA shows with a 4-H division, and I would be showing them in Ammy classes, and maybe Open classes. I want to be very careful about the rules to set a proper example for the kids!!!