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What do you include in sale price?

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hhpminis

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I would like to get an overview of not only do you as the seller include but as a buyer, what do you expect to have included in the sale price of a horse.

I would have to say that it depends on the selling price for me. If I get my full asking price then in most situations would include;

traveling documents i.e. health and coggins

registration on a weanling so they only have transfer

maybe even help with transport

If however, I reduce my selling price and then get nickled down even farther I do not feel that I should put out any of the above expenses.

No when I am buying, I have never had any of the above expenses included in my purchase price and I have paid good money for all of my horses.

The reason I am asking is I have just sold a filly. Way way below what her original asking price was, actually 1/3 of her original price.

I am not going to include registration with her, I will provide all the necessary papers for her to be registered but I am not going to pay for it.

I also am not going to pay for health and coggins, as she is going out of state.

I am delivering her though for no charge as it is on my way for another trip.

Am I out of line on this?
 

Minimor

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I don't think there's anything wrong with what you're not including on this price. The free delivery is generous enough; sure, you're going that way anyway, but the people I know that are going through anyway would still charge a portion of the fuel cost to the buyer of this filly.

We're working out a sale on a young gelding right now. We're letting him go for about 1/2 of what we wanted for him. Initially it was going to be kind of a rushed deal to get the money here & have him put on the transport, so it was agreed the buyer would look after the coggins when she gets him (don't need coggins to transport him, but I think she might need it in order to show him in her area). She's paying the transport (which is dirt cheap actually; I have reservations about this transport & may yet decide not to put him on it--not sure how this is going to work out...we don't have the money for the horse yet). Our horses are all registered as foals, so none will get sold on application only. (Nor have I ever bought one on application--all have come registered, even the 2 geldings I paid $250 each for.) Buyer pays for transfer, though in this case it's a new Mini owner & I told her if she wanted to pay me the $15 US I would take care of the transfer, since I have an AMHR membership and she does not.

Buying Miniatures--never have I had the purchase price include health or coggins papers. Never have I had the seller pay the transfer. Delivery has been my problem, though some I bought from just 45 miles away were delivered free of charge.
 
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kaykay

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i do think it is the sellers responsibility to pay for the coggins and health papers. Every horse i bought came with them and every horse i sold went with them. But if i took a drastic price cut i might ask the buyer to help pay for something???

Also i would think it odd to sell a horse without registering it.
 

strass

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Every deal is unique, but here's the general format that I see the most:

Seller goes ahead and takes care of all the health documentation needed for transport as the horse really shouldn't leave their ranch otherwise.

Also provide the paper work needed for registration. If you want to pay for that, I'm sure it will be appreciated, but it's ultimately the buyers responsibility if they want the horse registered in their name.

Transport is usually the tough one. I find it best to try to work out a place to meet for the final exchange (such as a horse show that you both would be going to anyway) to eliminate the high cost of a 3rd party shipper. Otherwise, I feel that it's the buyers responsibility to come and get their new horse.

Oh, and unless you know and trust the buyers VERY MUCH, payment for the horse should be taken care of before the delivery date unless they are paying cash.

But, like I said, everyone does it a little different. Sometimes you gotta' flex a little. A couple of "incentives" can be a good investment if you think that they'll buy more from you in the future...or it could start a costly expectation.
 
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chandab

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When I bought my yearling stallion; he was registered AMHA, came with paperwork to register AMHR (seller does the stallion reports, but doesn't register the foals), coggins and health were part of the purchase price. And, the sellers met me halfway for the "exchange"; I couldn't drive the whole distance to their place and they couldn't be gone long enough from theirs to deliver to my place (worked out fine for both).
 
L

Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis

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well I have to tell you I dont pay for every coggins and health cert. It depends on the price of the horse. If I am asking say 1500 and they buyer says they want to pay 1100 I might say well I will go to 1300 and I pay for health paperss or the 1100 and you pay

of course I just made those numbers up. But I am not able to take 500 bucks 400 bucks whatever off a horse and then another 120 or so for health papers.

If I were to make an offer that was lower then say a couple hundred bucks I sure wouldnt expect the seller to pay for health papers if said price was under 1000 bucks

I see plenty of websites that seems to be the magic number that if horse is priced above 1000 health papers provided if not it is the buyers responsibilty.

As far as transport well the avg right now is anywhere from .40 to .50 cents a mile so they are getting a deal there I am sure
 

Thunder

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We have always found our own transporter or picked-up the horse ourselves, all at our own expense.

We never pay for the health papers or coggins that is something we expect from the seller. (Only one time have we paid for health papers and that was not agreed upon, but it was such a nightmare transaction that we left it alone to get things wrapped-up and done.)

We normally receive a new halter and lead.

All our horses are registered before they are picked-up by us, although, if we knew the seller well it would not be a problem.

Normally, if no guarantees are offered then we look elsewhere. Only once have we decided we wanted a horse bad enough to purchase without guarantees and so a pre-purchase exam was required. The pre-purchase exam has saved us a lot of grief more than once.

We require all paperwork to be up-to-date before transport. (Found that out the hard way!)

We also require a signed contract before we are willing to put a sizeable amount down on any horse. We usually work-out contracts (I like to get things wrapped-up within three days) and then send half-down or more for a deposit with the signed contract. It's amazing to me how many people want 1/2 down on a horse before they want to talk about the contract. I can see putting down $1000 or $2000 to hold a horse, but 1/2 before you've even discussed the contract...when I've never dealt with you before???
I get real leery when that happens. Of course, once you've worked with someone you feel a little better, but not the first transaction.


So far we have been very fortunate and we have only had two nightmares. One didn't pass the pre-purchase exam and one was just too scary to talk about, but the horse was wonderful!! We have truly been fortunate to meet some of the greatest people through our horse purchases and we would buy from most of them again.
 

js1arab

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OK, Just my humble opinion here

I include the coggins& health papers. The way I look at it, EIA is a fatal disease, if the disease itself doesn't kill them then they are required to be confined 3/4 of the year or destroyed. The rest of the herd being exposed to this horse will need to be repeatedly tested for a certain amount of time. It is not fair to send a horse out and expose others to this worry. And just because all your other horses test negative doesn't matter. The disease is transmitted through bitting insects so your neighbors horse down the road could be the carrier that infects your horse. As I'm sure you can see this is a pet peeve of mine. I truly feel if testing was toughened and the states all worked together we could in theory nearly, if not completely irradicate this disease. Don't get me wrong, I understand that even though the horse is tested yearly, that doesn't mean that sometime during the year they can't end up with the disease, but at least I feel I have done my part to help make sure mine are safe for traveling. I only have a small group, but I test everybody. I would also include any needed health papers. If you feel you shouldn't have to "pay" for this service -then simply include those fees in your sale price and don't come down any less -explaining that those services are already taken care of. If the new owners aren't willing to take that into consideration, then I'm not sure I'd trust them to care for my horse anyway. There will always be unique situations where you may want to do something different, but in general, that is my opinion on things for what it is worth.

Oh, as a general rule, I also include a halter and lead (unless new owner doesn't want or need them), I try to make sure they have been dewormed and recently trimmed and I also encourage owners to contact me with any questions and will offer any help I can with helping them get started showing or whatever (just went and body clipped one for a show and that one is just on lease ) If the new owner has a good experience, they will enjoy the horse more, will return or recommend future sales and will hopefully help other newcomers once they feel comfortable.
 

Songcatcher

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In buying or selling, ANYTHING is negotiable. Generally speaking, I expect to receive negative Coggins test, horse up to date on worming and hoof care, up to date registration papers, and a new halter and lead. I haven't always received all these things, but that is what I would expect.

When I sell something, I provide the above as well as up to date on vaccinations. I also build into my advertised price enough to cover delivery within a two to three hour drive. I can reduce price if they pick up or deliver farther for an additional fee. I expect payment before delivery.

I think the key term is that ANYTHING is NEGOTIABLE.
 

shminifancier

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If the price is cheap enough or even maybe a give away I don't and never have have done a coggins OR done health papers on my horses. And any and all people I have sold too and or given away to have not had any of these done either.. i just did this a few months ago when I was looking for a good home for my donkey.. I knew the gal that ran the boarding and lesson and therapeutic riding place and I told her I would just haul him up there no papers no nothing just so that she could give him a good home along with another donkey that she had.. So nothing was done what so ever and everybody was happy even my beloved Charley II he now has a longed eared friend and plenty of kids to pet him on a daily basis
 

Marty

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If you buy a horse from me, I will include a coggins, a health certificate, and registration papers in order.

When the horse leaves here, she will have been groomed and wormed and shots up to date. She will also have a clean nice if not brand new halter and lead rope with her. Bows and ribbons or a scrunchie most likely.

She will not come to you a dirty filthy stinking wormy sick lice filled mess with months of diaherea in her tail that is a matted and knotted disaster.
 

Ashley

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If I sell them for less then $1000 buyer pays for coggins and health. If over $1000 I pay for it. Most of the time they already have a coggins done thou as when I coggins in the spring everybody gets done, wether they leave the farm or not.

THey all leave with a new, or barely used halter.

They all have there AMHR papers, but if they are foals chances are they will just get the AMHA application as I dont get to them papers til fall when everything settles down here.
 

coopermini

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Marty,

I couldn't have said it better. Except maybe leave off the bows and Scrunchie.

We bought all ours with health charts, coggins. up to date papers ( 2 weanlings we took applications as the sellers were more than generous on asking price).

They all had halters, leads, 3 came with blankets (for the ride from FL to ME),

Our stallion even came with his harness.

We did all transporting, About 4200 miles round trips.

Keep it simple and easy for the customer and they will come back. Leave'em a mess and they will tell everyone.

Mark
 

lilhorseladie

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I sold two horses for an almost give away price. They went with paper work...a kitty litter bucket of grain, a barn halter and a spiffy new halter each, and a lead rope each. I also paid for and sent coggins and health papers. And...all horses leave with a Misty movie!
They picked up their own horses though...
 

Buckskin gal

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I can say that we have bought 4 from out of state [always went and picked them up ourselves except one which came from a long distance] and the sellers included health and coggins in the price and had the registrations ready to sign over to us. On a couple occasions halters were included which was a nice little extra. We have also bought one where we paid for the health and coggins separately. We paid cash and always appreciate a seller who treats us well. I am against buying from anyone who is a stranger that has not sent in an application for registration and doesn't have the certificate ready for the buyer when paying in full and in cash. I don't consider a horse registered until it is on file in the office and I think that a seller telling a buyer that it is registered, even though applications have not been sent in, is wrong to say they are. I do think each sale has its on particulars and a sale is all about what each buyer and seller agrees to. I think there are some really great people out there to buy from but I have also ran across a few that were a real nightmare.

I do expect to be treated in a curteous manner and have questions answered which I think pretain to a sale. That is most important to me. Mary
 
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MountainViewMiniatures

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When we sell we include:

a new halter and lead rope,

current coggins & vaccinations will be current

a binder with plastic sleeves

grain(if one of our AQHA a full bag, if mini a partial) so they can

be switched over to owner's new grain

occaisonally a bale of hay

In the binder we place:

1st sleeve - original registration certificate & completed transfer

addressed stamped envelope to registry

note stating to include check payable to registry plus

min. amount of fees & suggestion to send certififed

2nd sleeve - same as above for 2nd registry if applicable

3rd sleeve - copies of 1st and 2nd sleeves

4th sleeve - pedigree

5th sleeve - coggins & rabies certificate

6th sleeve - printout of health,wormiing, vaccination ,breeding,

trimmiing history

7th + sleeves - computer printout of baby or show pictures

We prefer to collect a check payable to registry and will mail in for client especially the AQHA where it is the seller's responsibility to be sure transfer is sent to registry.

We rarely sell on application, so far in 22 years only 2 times - and neither party ever registered the horse.

On occaision, depending on price of horse and distance, we will deliver free otherwise we offer delivery at reasonable fee.
 

capall beag

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I would call up the buyer and discuss it with them.

I think if they got the horse for a great price AND you are delivering the horse I am sure they would be MORE than willing to assist you or pay for the other expenses.

Having the horse delivered to you for free is a HUGE break!!!!! I guess depending on distance but still a good break!

Certainly as a buyer I would not expect everything included if the price was a bargain, if I paid close to asking price and I was taking care of delivery I would expect all paperwork to be done by seller.
 

Bluerocket

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When I sell (when I can bear to part with any of them LOLOLOL).. I include current on all shots, worming, coggins, health certificate. I register all my foals at birth so all I give to buyer is transfer for them to pay for. I futurity nominate and fully sustain all foals as well and provide futurity transfers to the buyer. If this is a local sale, I would deliver for free within 50 miles.

Now.. if I had to sell for a much much much reduced price.. I would make still include all of the above... why? because it was probably all done already.. so I know what that cost me (except for coggins/health cert) in advance.. and hopefully covered those costs in the price that we settled on. I would deliver for free (so I see where the horse lives) if possible.

As to coggins/health cert.. I would still pay for that --- only exception is if it had to be done on a rush basis and I had to have the vet out to do only this.. and pay for rush.. Buyer would pay for that special vet call and RUSH.

As a buyer --- I don't negotiate very well on prices... I tend to pay the asking price. So I EXPECT to have all that included in the purchase price... not to be nickeled and dimed to death afterwards. I expect the paperwork to have been processed and the registration to be completed! Since the two times in the past that this has not yet been done, I have been burnt.. so never never never again will I buy a horse whose registration is not correct and completed!!! In that case the sale will not go through with me as the buyer.

Obviously, If I buy at an auction however.. I have to take what I get.

Is this what you wanted to know?

JJay

PS - forgot to add --- we provide "baby" and "parent" photos (also previous/current offspring photos if its a mare) if we have them, 5 generation pedigree, health records and feed/hay for up to a week.

By law in KY you have to include a halter -- we include a new one.. and a lead rope if we need to.

Sharon at Mountainviewminiatures has inspired me for the notebook idea now.. if I ever sell one again... will do that.
 
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Sonya

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The one thing I expect is the papers to all be there in order (not necessary fees paid, but for the applications, etc...to be there, this was a great help for me as I knew absolutely nothing about the registrations and most newbies won't) and a shot/worming record. I requested coggins to be done and I paid for it, the paper was there when I picked them up. My situation was unique as I asked the breeders to keep the horses until they were gelded (I paid for the procedure for one, the other came with it)...

It is nice to include a halter/lead and maybe even a small bag of their feed. One of mine came w/a nice bail of hay - that was actually very nice. I also think it's nice to have the horse all clean/clipped and up to date on worming, shots, hooves if possible. It is nice as a new horse owner (especially first time) to not have to worry about rushing to get the farrier out, etc...
 

alphahorses

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I don't pay for coggins, health or transportation either. I've purchased horses, big and small, off and on my whole life and it has always been expected that the Purchaser would be responsible for these things

It think the MOST important thing though is to just be really CLEAR and UPFRONT about what is included and not included. I try to specify in any ad I run that Coggins, health papers and transportation is not included in the price. I find it very irritating as a buyer to buy a "registered" horse only to find that it is not registered, but registration eligible. Nothing wrong with selling a horse that way, but please be clear when you advertise that it is not AMHA/AMHR regisred... it is AMHA/AMHR ELIGIBLE.

Here are some things that I think need to be specified at least in your sales contract which the buyer is allowed to read before making a decision, if not in the ad:

1) Who pays for Coggins & other Health Papers

2) Who pays for transportation

3) How long they can "board" at your place while arranging for transportation and how much board will be charged if any (I give them 30 days free... then charge)

4) If the horse is registered or just eligible & who pays for registration

5) If the mare is in foal, if there is a Live foal guarantee and what are the terms

6) If the horse is a stallion or colt, is there a fertility guarantee and a guarantee that testicles will drop and what are the terms

7) Is there a height guarantee and what are the terms

8) Is there any type of health/soundness guarantee and the terms

9) If the colt is sold under gelding contract, what are the terms

10) Under what terms will you refund deposits

11) Terms for pre-purchase exams

Once these are laid out in writing, you and the buyer can negotiate and change the contract as needed .. but they should be agreed upon before the sale is concluded so that each party knows what their financial obligations and risks will be and so neither feels like they have been cheated.
 
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