What Color Is She?

[Magic Marker Minis]

Diva is almost five months old... Her mom is chestnut sabino... We bred Miss Te to Concho (smoky grulla, homozygous black with a splash gene) one day and two days later, Rohan (silver smoky black) jumped the fence and covered Miss Te twice before we could separate them... We decided not to breed her back to Concho because we didn't want to muddy the waters...

When she was born, we thought she was a dunskin, which means she would have been Concho's baby. What we thought was a dorsal stripe when she was born has faded away and the only thing left is the 'stripe' in her tail.

Now, we're not sure what color she may be... However, if Diva is the color I think she is, then Rohan has to be her sire.

Color possibilities for

MISS TE (Chestnut sabino) X CONCHO (smoky grulla, homozygous black are):

Dunskin, Bay Dun, Bay, Black, Buckskin, Smoky Grullo, Grullo, Smoky Black (with or without sabino or splash)

Or,

MISS TE (Chestnut sabino) X ROHAN (silver smoky black):

Palomino, Chestnut, Bay, Black, Buckskin, Silver Bay, Silver Smoky Black, Silver Buckskin, Smoky Black, Silver Black

So, what color do you think she is?

First pic is of her and her mom. You can see the extensive sabino "roaning" on Miss Te and her flaxen mane and tail. Miss Te also has a star, strip & snip and 3 white socks.

We'll eventually do DNA testing to determine who her real father is and also color testing... We just want to know what you guys think... <g>

Kari & Toni

 

[chandab]

Might just be the pictures, but sure looks silver something to me. Very cute.

 

[Magic Marker Minis]

You're on track... She's silvery... or gray if you want to get technical...

 

[amysue]

I would say silver buckskin as I see a dorsal stripe on her rump and the black cap in her tail. Very pretty baby.

 

[Magic Marker Minis]

That dorsal stripe stops at her croup. It doesn't go all the way down her back, and it's not in her mane. Her mane is silver and white, through and through, no black or dark hairs... She's shedding out all over grayish silver... Not a hint of gold, tan, or red that would indicate buckskin...

I think she's going to be dapple gray.

eta: Her legs are silver gray all the way down her legs until it gets to three white socks. The fourth leg is silver gray all the way to the hoof.

Kari

 

[amysue]

Im sorry I forgot this registry doesnt list silver bucksln on the app. She looks like she had guullo and dun characteristics. In tough to decipher cades I ask the registrar to determine the colorbon the permanent certificate. She definitely has a silver color but the stripe and tail lead me to believe she has some dun in her. I had a filly born a similar color who matured to a cream colored buckskin with only a partial stripe but she developed black points as she aged. I would color test her so you can atleast know her genotype.

 

[Magic Marker Minis]

Oh, we'll definitely color test her and parent test her as we're not sure which stallion is her daddy...

Thanks for your input!

Kari

 

[Magic Marker Minis]

oh, forgot to mention... The only way Diva could have got a silver gene is from Rohan, but he IS NOT grulla or dun. He's a silver smoky black...

It might be possible that Miss Te has a hidden silver gene as it does not show up on chestnut/sorrel... So, if mom has silver and if daddy is Concho (who is a smoky grulla, homozygous black), then she could be a silver grulla... which would be kick butt!!!

P.S. Miss Te's registration papers say she is a red dun roan... She has NO dun characteristics (She does not have a dorsal stripe, which is an absolute requirement for dun factor) and does not have the dark red head indicative of roan... I will color test her, but I believe she is chestnut sabino.

My head is spinning!

Kari

 

[ohmt]

Looks like a very nice silver black sabino, which would make Rohan the sire

I don't see buckskin or dun, but she could have a hidden cream gene (making her a smokey silver black sabino), but only testing would let you know for sure. Make sure you post who the sire is when you know for sure!

 

[tagalong]

I think she's going to be dapple gray.

No chance of that! She would need a grey parent.

At this stage - and from those pictures, I see silver coming through - with sabino.

 

[Magic Marker Minis]

The silver gene on black causes dapple gray or silver dapple. Scientists have decided NOT to use dapple gray anymore to avoid confusion with the gray gene... Recent studies and tests have discovered the silver gene on black causes the color "formerly known as dapple gray." The silver gene also causes the "chocolate" color of the Rocky Mountain Horse... ("Chocolate" is known as "taffy" in Great Britain - Don't know why as taffy is usually a creamy white... not the milk chocolate color.)

It 's thought that a lot of Miniature Horses have the silver gene because a majority of Miniatures are descended from Shetland Ponies who carry the silver gene. While studying the silver gene, I have come to the conclusion that Buckeroo was a silver buckskin as a lot of his get carry the silver gene, including Buck Echo, who is Rohan's grandsire... I also suspect that Rohan's sire, Little King's Echo Diablo (buckskin), also carries the silver gene... Rohan probably got his cream gene from his buckskin sire...

I researched Rohan's dam's side as far as I could and did not find any evidence of the silver gene or the cream gene.

Rohan is silver smoky black and looks chocolate colored like a Rocky Mountain Gaited Horse. (Pic attached of Wesco Farms Rohans Echo ET.) We knew he was silver black... It was just recently discovered he probably has a cream gene as he produced (silver?) buckskin on a bay mare (Michelle - Wesco Farms).

I want to test Rohan to see if he is homozygous silver as the two foals we've had by him are silver black. (Michelle at Wesco Farms used to own Rohan and I believe that all of his foals from her farm are either silver bay, silver black, or silver buckskin.)

eta: We have bred Rohan to a silver bay mare for next year.... It will be interesting to see what we get... I'm hoping for silver buckskin (26.37% silver buckskin or silver bay according to color calculator).

Kari

P.S. I don't know what is worse... The freakin' gray gene, or the freakin' brown gene. Either gene screws up your colors... grrrrrr!

 

[Magic Marker Minis]

My bad... I'm the one confusing dapple gray with silver dapple... doh!... I should have said, "I think she's going to be "silver dapple." I'm going to go stand in the corner now...

Kari

No chance of that! She would need a grey parent.

At this stage - and from those pictures, I see silver coming through - with sabino.

 

[paintponylvr]

She's cute! I was getting ready to "refute" the dapple grey vs the silver dapple - but you already got that!

How does the brown gene mess up colors?? Find that interesting observation. Where do you have the brown gene testing done? There used to be only one place that did it, not sure right now. They didn't do brown testing when I had a registered as black Hackney pony mare (and kept in a barn, you'd never have known she might not be black) - all 5 of her foals by our homozygous black, homozygous tobiano stallion were brown tobiano fillies (not tested, but appeared rather obvious...all had been sold by 2006). Would be interesting to test the 1/2 arab bay mare that she produced to see what color genes she actually carries. I sold the Hackney mare years ago and have lost touch with the woman/barn that purchased her - she had a great life but I suspect she's gone now... She was 23 when I sold her in 2006 and 25 when I last saw her in 2008.

I would love to know what color (s) she tests for when you have her done!

 

[Magic Marker Minis]

Here's a pic of my buckskin colt that was born this year... I call him 'smutty' but someone else said he is a 'brown' buckskin. I did some research and the brown gene has been associated with the 'smutty' gene... I don't 'do' brown... It's not in my vocabulary...

ETA: Following is some of the information I've gleaned from the Internet regarding the 'brown' gene.

===

The brown gene is associated with the agouti gene: "The A and At alleles can be identified by DNA test.[1] To be seal brown, a horse must have at least one copy of the functional MC1R gene (E/E or E/Ee) and must have one of the following genotypes at the Agouti locus: At/At or At/a."

The presence of other coat color genes can modify a seal brown coat. The seal brown family includes:

• Brown Buckskin, a result of the dilution effect of a single copy of the cream gene. Sometimes called brown buckskin. The black areas of the seal brown coat are unaffected or slightly lightened, while the reddish areas are more golden, and may have lighter eyes. Brown buckskins are often quite hard to distinguish from seal browns.[13]
  

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Yes, there is one place that tests for the brown gene. I have it bookmarked!!! If Dash turns out to be a 'brown' buckskin, I hope he turns out like the 'big horse' pic I've also posted...

However, from now on, they are not 'brown' buckskins... They are CHOCOLATE BUCKSKIN... 'cause everyone loves chocolate!!!! hahaha!

Kari

 

[paintponylvr]

Well that's one gorgeous brown buckskin (as is your guy!). I would have classed that big fella as a "smutty" buckskin and haven't a clue what your colt is besides CUTE.

And then there's my "pink" colt... Pretty sure he is possibly a silver smoky black, but darn if he doesn't look PINK sometimes!! Very, very different from the "blue" hue of the silver blacks that we have. Most folk around here just say I have "ugly tan ponies" (lots of different shades of silver black & one silver bay - some solid and some pinto).

Which company currently tests for brown?

 

[chandab]

Paula, I know the place that tests for brown is in AZ, but I can't recall the name. I'll see if I can find it in my favorites, as I thought I saved it.

Found it, its Pet DNA services AZ : http://www.petdnaservicesaz.com/

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Silver is NOT known as Taffy in the UK you are thinking of Australia, I think? Silver is known as Silver, here.

Brownskins are often confused with Sooty Buckskins.

Buckskins often look "greyish" when they are shedding out to new coat- he could just be Buckskin, no Silver.

Testing would be the obvious way to go as there is no way to tell from guessing!

Testing for Sab1 will not tell you if the colt has Sabino or not, only whether it has Sab1 or not- my maxim is that if it does not have Roan, and looks Roan it is most probably Sabino!