WHAT ARE THE DIRECTORS DOING TO AMHA??!!

[user 488]

I think they should change the rule as to where you measure to be at the tallest hair at the tip of the ear.

Awwww! Come on Joanne! Then people will start breeding for shorter necks.

Really, it's becoming kind of a joke. Maybe there should not be any measuring at all and you just put the horse in the class that you want him in.

Seems like these so called rules are put into place just to appease certain agendas. Yes, the cheaters!

Again, I have no vested interest. I just find the whole thing kind of hokey and amusing. You wonder why big horse breeds don't take you all seriously? OH!

 

[maestoso]

All those in favor of accusing the board of having their own agenda......

Have you ever run for a board position? Do you go to the meetings? Not every board member is part of a breeding/showing farm, they can't all be cheaters.

 

[MinisOutWest]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THIS IS JUST A JOKE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My husband just solved the height issue- GET RID OF IT !!!!

And start weighing them, we should introduce weight classes !!!!

then the height will never be an issue and the official scale will never lie !!!

I hate beating the poor horse with a 'measuring' stick.

Back to packing and getting ready for the show, will see what the ole measuring stick says tomorrow.

 

[gvpalominominis]

I think they should change the rule as to where you measure to be at the tallest hair at the tip of the ear.

 


Awwww! Come on Joanne! Then people will start breeding for shorter necks.

 


Really, it's becoming kind of a joke. Maybe there should not be any measuring at all and you just put the horse in the class that you want him in.

Seems like these so called rules are put into place just to appease certain agendas. Yes, the cheaters!

 


Again, I have no vested interest. I just find the whole thing kind of hokey and amusing. You wonder why big horse breeds don't take you all seriously? OH!

 


(I had a wise crack comment back for your shorter neck comment... but too chicken to post it... may have been open to criticism to be considered politically incorrect.

)


You're absolutely right.... it is a joke! The whole intial rule to measure a hair strand as a height point! (FYI - I added additional comments to my last post....)

 


I think I understand that everyone agrees there needs to be a change as to where to measure these horses.... fine, then quit squaking... go through the proper procedure and process as designated in the by laws and change the darn rule to a structure of the horse as the measuring point! No matter WHAT that is changed to, you will ALWAYS have what you are calling "CHEATERS". No rule or regulation can guarantee against that.

 


IMPO.. at shows, the way I see it, it's not the person presenting the horse for measurement that is the cheater... its the person doing the measuring... whether its bending under the pressure of a well known owner or trainer ..... or maybe they just flat out made a human error. (This is not a statement meant to be a witch hunt by any means... only an opinion.. so don't make it one) The only way to stop the pasture and back yard cheaters from 'lying' about heights of horses in their possession, if you're that concerned about it... is to require that EVERY horse has to be measured by an official measurer prior to permanant registration! Think of THAT back log!

 


I'm sure this has been said time and time again.... I know its been posted over and over and over.... So! Where do we start? ... Cause I think al lot of people are tired of hearing about this measurement stuff... and all the vendettas that appear at the shows.... so with that... if no one else has started it already... I'm going to look up how to enact a new, or change a rule and get it started! I think it takes about a year or more... Top of the wither to measure ... which would requre another rule changed to "add 2"s to the standard maximum height". Oh, with that then the yearling's height limitation. Oh, with that also then the 2 yr old's requirement! Correct me if I'm wrong... since each is its own rule... each would require its own amendment... but one not to pass without the other?

 


Then, at the same time also start another proposal to "Behind the wither for measurement" which virtually would not require any other change, and present them to the membership for passing one or the other.

 


Stepping down now.. LOL But serious about the amendment initiations.

 

[Sun Runner Stables]

I agree, that measuring room is Tense and Cold! I know of lots of horses that have measured different at almost every show, but in the correct range for their class. For Pete's sake, everyone needs to calm down and stop jumping at Everything.

Their are some Nasty protest wars going on, some of it pretty fruitless, and I believe this is a safety to keep some nice horses from getting the door due to a high school brain of some. It may not be the best solution, but the last one they had that was more concrete of a measuring point got shot to bits right out the gate.

Enough said here. I would leave it as is, and that's how I'll be voting if it gets to that hysterical point again on here.

 

[Mona]

I did not say ANYWHERE that I felt there was any kind of conspiracy! It seems to me the only ones that seem to be calling it a conspiracy are those against what I have posted on behalf of CARE. These are FACTS that I posted, as per the published minutes of the June Board meeting.

As for blaming the directors, THEY voted this in, so I am not sure who else to hold accountable for it?? Any ideas??

And finally, I am NOT against taller horses being reg'd into AMHA, but I AM against the ways in which it is being done. Yes, I know horses can measure differently and I agree with that, they do! And I too have measured the same horse over and under and kept the papers, but what irks me is that AMHA is going against what they were founded on.

I personally don't feel there will ever be any way to satisfy this type of thing, other than making sure your horse is not so close to the limit that it will measure over, or to totally remove any height restrictions and call it a breed, not a height breed. It is being a height breed that is causing so many problems.

 

[minimomNC]

If you had been at World last year to witness the "protest" measuring, you would understand just how difficult it can be on the horses. It takes a lot of time and they are touched and moved and touched and moved several times until like Neil said, they are set accordingly and everyone is happy. Then they are measured. Its not like regular show measuring where you just walk up set your horse and the person holding the stick finds what they think is the last mane hair and puts the stick on it. A quarter of an inch isn't hard to believe as a difference, almost 2 inches, yes thats a huge difference but not a 1/4 of an inch. Do you realize how small a 1/4 inch is? Take a tape measure and measure across the surface of a penny, the middle of a penny straight across measures 3/4 of an inch. And most of you think its a plot to let in oversize horses? I dont' think so. I think its an honest attempt to give leeway to a nervous, tight horse, standing under a magnifing glass with 10 people staring. That 1/4 is only for horses that are protested and the way I read it, if the horse goes over 34.25 in a protest measurement, it will not be allowed to show and if it has shown it will have all awards forfited.

And if you think AMHA is having it rough, you should see whats showing in the 34" & under classes in AMHR. I was amazed.

 

[shelia]

I think some of us need to think about the other side of this. Let's say you have a horse that is right up there at 34 and is an almost perfect miniature horse. You show this horse and it does very well. Then one day it gets protested. It measures in 1/4 inch too tall. You are disqualified and loose the papers. You have a right to appeal that. (this does happen) The appeal process takes a long time and your horse gets measured again and is measured 34 or under. You get your papers back.

The person going through this has lost time money and I am sure there is a great emotional toll. Would this person have a right to sue AMHA and maybe even the person who originally protested? This person could have lost a great deal of money if this were a breeding stallion. Can this horse be protested again putting the owner through this all over? I am not talking about someone who knows there horse is over and just pushing there luck.

I personally like the smaller horses and would not risk taking one to a show that is right at the limit, but some people do and have that right. What is fair to them? Should AMHA only allow horses well under 34 in the ring?

Is this 1/4 inch keeping AMHA from being sued down the road?

 

[LisaF.]

I would like for those that think it is OK for the 1/4" to think about something for just one minute.

What is WRONG with staying with what AMHA was founded on? 34" and under?

Why has AMHA all of a sudden started trying to change the way we measure? Why allowing 1/4"?

I HONESTLY don't understand!

The only reason I can think of is for the CHEATERS at shows. ( I am NOT saying everyone at shows are cheater's - I am saying I think this is set up for SOME that want to cheat)

How many problems WOULD BE SOLVED if we stayed with what AMHA was founded on?

 

[bingo]

And if you think AMHA is having it rough, you should see whats showing in the 34" & under classes in AMHR. I was amazed.

When all else fails divert attention to another registry

 

[loveminis]

I don't agree with this change. I think if they measure over 34" then they should not be allowed at that particular show. Measure 3 times and if it the horse is still over that's it. Maybe people should start not breeding taller to taller. If AMHA wants to be a strong and respected registry they need to stick to their own rules.

 

[faithfarm]

This change only affects a protest, not the initial measuring of a horse to enter a class. If a horse measures over according to the rules it does not show, period. It has nothing to do with entering oversized horses, it only allows a 1/4" leeway for measuring at a protest. Go back and read the rule change.

 

[McBunz]

Well here we go again... Changing the standard... just another way to allow those over 34 inch horses to be shown legally..

Pay more to protest as well.. What the heck is wrong with this picture... What is wrong with the people who voted to allow this to happen

once again... Read the Standard people... follow it and leave it the way is was.....

 

[pinck43]

I can see where everyone is coming from. 1/4" is not much, but can also put the horse over from the original measurement and into a different class. When you speak of cheaters, who exactly are you talking about? The exhibitor or the stewart? Personally I feel the stewart should be held responsible for correct measurements. If there is a protest and the horse doesn't measure correctly from the original measurement, then maybe the stewarts should be fined. Maybe then we would see more accuracy. dionne

 

[Leeana]

Its .25 ...then its .50 ...then its 36" ..then its 36.5" ....all im saying

 

[JMS Miniatures]

This change only affects a protest, not the initial measuring of a horse to enter a class. If a horse measures over according to the rules it does not show, period. It has nothing to do with entering oversized horses, it only allows a 1/4" leeway for measuring at a protest. Go back and read the rule change.

You know after thinking about it this might not be such a bad thing. Just like what faithfarm says you have to go in or atleast be right on 34" to even beable to show, this is just for protest that you will get allowed a 1/4" leeway. So many things happen when you do get measured, you may get taller or smaller. I still have mix feelings about it, I feel like AMHA is just covering this up with a band-aid. As long as the rules are followed thru everything will be ok.

 

[LisaF.]

The problem is RULES are NOT being followed. They are being changed !

 

[tagalong]

If you had been at World last year to witness the "protest" measuring, you would understand just how difficult it can be on the horses. It takes a lot of time and they are touched and moved and touched and moved several times until like Neil said, they are set accordingly and everyone is happy. Then they are measured. Its not like regular show measuring where you just walk up set your horse and the person holding the stick finds what they think is the last mane hair and puts the stick on it. A quarter of an inch isn't hard to believe as a difference, almost 2 inches, yes thats a huge difference but not a 1/4 of an inch. Do you realize how small a 1/4 inch is? Take a tape measure and measure across the surface of a penny, the middle of a penny straight across measures 3/4 of an inch. And most of you think its a plot to let in oversize horses? I dont' think so. I think its an honest attempt to give leeway to a nervous, tight horse, standing under a magnifing glass with 10 people staring. That 1/4 is only for horses that are protested and the way I read it, if the horse goes over 34.25 in a protest measurement, it will not be allowed to show and if it has shown it will have all awards forfited.

Well said - and that is the way I read it as well, minimom. We'll have to check on that. This does not seem to be the OMG!! OUTRAGE!! LOOK WHAT THEY ARE DOING NOW!!! LETTING BIGGER HORSES IN!!! OMG!!! catastrophe that some are painting it as... is it necessary to YELL in the thread title as well? The horse must still measure in - the 1/4" is only indicated for a protest when things are a helluva lot tenser. I defy anyone here who is so outraged about this to set their horses up and have strangers approach them and position them and measure them in a charged atmosphere - and not get measurements that vary all over the place. Or at least - within that 1/4". Don't like it? Then protest - but without the hints of conspiracies and YELLING and OUTRAGE... do it calmly and clearly.

Changing the standard... just another way to allow those over 34 inch horses to be shown legally..

None of this changed the standard. The horse must measure in at 34" or under. End of story. And once agan - this was only indicated for protests.

Pay more to protest as well..

Now that ^^^ I can understand. That way foolish protests designed just to mess with people will be less likely to occur - and anyone filing a protest will do so with care and follow through with it. The old put your money where your mouth is thing...

And if you think AMHA is having it rough, you should see whats showing in the 34" & under classes in AMHR. I was amazed

I think that if some turned the same intense scrutiny on AMHR that they consistently favour AMHA with - they would find things to be outraged about there as well - but no - they never do that. AMHA is not the only registry that needs "fixing" - despite what some insist. Can someone please explain to me how the same horse (permanent status) can be a winner in AMHR Under one year... and then be a winner in Over the next... I guess I must be the only one out here who goes... HUH??? How is that possible? I guess it must be that old 1/4" - or more - right? It seems that the measuring must be all over the place - and needs to be tightened up. I have seen just as many horses in classes where they towered over the others in AMHR as AMHA - but AMHR seems to get a free pass on this board from some. It is almost like a crusade at times... get AMHA - but everything AMHR does is peachy keen and hunky-dory and we will never look at it closely. Well, that is wrong - and very onesided.

They both need fixing. Period.

Just to make things clear - the horses here are all registered AMHA/AMHR - so I am not "favouring" one registry. I just see all the indignation and outrage only going one way - when other problems are ignored.

ETA:

Okay - I went back and read this again....

If the horse measures above AMHA height requirements at its respective age it then loses ALL awards, points, and placings for that show.

And to me it seems clear - a horse who measures over 34" at that protest - even if it measured in right on 34" at the initial measuring - will lose everything. So what AMHA was founded on - that so many of you are upset about and saying they are ignoring - still holds true. No horses taller than 34" allowed.

But feel free to drag that 34 1/2 - 36" horse into an AMHR Under class... it seems that no one will mind...

 

[Genie]

I appreciate Mona and Mary Lou bringing the information to my attention, even if it had to be shouted. Thank you ladies!

I don't show at the National level and possibly never will, however I agree with the forum members who respond with 34 inches being 34 inches.

In my opinion if your horse is so close to 34 inches that " being too cold" will make it measure over, or "being tense and nervous" will make it taller, then so be it.

When the petition is drafted I will happily sign.

I believe that there will always be changes for the betterment of the registry, however there should be certain principles on which the AMHA is founded, which should always be firmly in place.

Horses in the AMHA registry are 34" and under and if your horse is so close to 34 inches that it will measure over on show day, then I guess it won't be shown.

Integrity is important to me and "wishy washy" is unprofessional. Once AMHR introduces dna testing then there will be no reason for me to worry about having AMHA horses.

I fear the AMHA will lose it's credibility with these types of allowances.

 

[Lorraine]

Hello all -

This is Tom O'Connell, one of the AMHA Directors from Region #1, and I voted on this proposal. My vote has been posted on this link.

As you can tell from the comments posted, there are many people on both sides of this issue................. let me provide you with some of my thoughts as I analyzed this proposal prior to voting.

I have been an "official" measurer at AMHA approved shows and did attend(and passed) an AMHA certified measurer class given to the Directors a few years ago so I do have some experience measuring horses. I can assure you that horses heights can change within minutes - I think the posts agree with this. I do not have a problem with the 1/4 rule EXCEPT I did not and still do not support the 34 1/4 portion of the rule.............this is why I voted it down. Exhibitors bringing a tall horse to a show run the risk that the horse might "measure out" and they should understand this and accept this. I'm not saying that the horse is "over" but on any given day, a horse can easily measure a 1/4 (or more) than other times. The measure did pass as it is ONLY for protest measurements, not any other measurement.

Remember .........Measuring is an art, not a science.

Tom O'Connell