West Niles combination shots

[Riverdance]

I placed a 7 year old unregistered mare with a family who had an older horse and wanted company for him. They had her for several days, then took her into the vets for shots. He gave her the combination shot and 3 days later they came outside to see her staggering around. Then when they checked again she was laying down and did not want to stand up. They took her to the vets and he said she had West Niles, though he did not take a test to see if she did or not. I know that EW can also give similar symptoms. They brought her home and put her in a stall. She would not get up at all, and they could not keep her up, but she ate her food. The next morning they came into the stall and found her seizuring, blood all over the stall. They had her put down.

I know that their pasture needed mowing bad and there were lots of weeds around. They mowed it before putting her out, but the old man had been out there all summer.

Now here is my question. She did not have the West Niles shot as I just will not give it to my horses. I have read too many real reactions to it. Aborted foals, deformed foals, stallions that went sterile, etc. She has also not gotten her EW shot yet. I was vaccinating them again for October, but had not gotten to her yet. Could she have had this kind of reaction to the combination shot, have any of you heard of one this bad?

I do not like it when a vet who diagnosis something without testing for it as so many things can have the same symptoms. There could be a poisonous plant or flower or milkweed that had been mowed down. EW or West Niles. I would like to know, but now will never know.

All of my other horses are just fine. I have ordered more EW shots as I ran out, so there are still some horses that have not yet been vaccinated.

 

[Minimor]

I have given the FD combo shot to many minis and have never had even one reaction to it.

The aborted and deformed foals attributed to the WN vaccine are just things that happened and people have blamed the vaccine--there is absolutely NO scientific evidence that shows the vaccine causes these things--in fact research has shown these things do. It happen as a result of the vaccine. There have been thousands and thousands of bred mates vaccinated for EN in this province and there has never been a rash of deformities and abortions

 

[Riverdance]

I am afraid I know someone well known who had 5 mares abort shortly after giving the shot as well as a top breeder who's stallion went sterile after receiving the shot. All miniature horses. not all are going to react in this way, and I guess it is a game of roll-et. Sometime someone will have another reaction like these.

 

[little lady]

Been giving wn combo shots for years to both big and small and no adverse reactions yet...knocking on wood.

 

[Minimor]

Thing is....how does this person know the 5 mares wouldn't have aborted even if they never got the shots? There are people who have had multiple mares abort even without having any vaccines given. In so many cases the times makes it seem likely, and yet it could also be just coincidence.

Any vaccine can cause a reaction in a certain number of recipients, but the reality is the percentage of reactions is quite low. It does seem that in this particular case your horse may have had a reaction, but as said there are other things that could cause similar symptoms...though the "blood all over the stall" does not sound like anything associated with WNV. There were many, many horses that died of WN the first year it was in this province and bleeding wasn't ever described as one of the issues. It is entirely possible that in this case the timing of the illness in relation to the vaccine's administration is nothing more than coincidence.

 

[Jill]

I'm sorry this happened.

You were / are doing what you think is best. That's what we all have to do.

I do give a combo shot, but NOT to pregnant mares, and never had a problem. We give a WNV combo to all but PG mares. PG mares get a EW combo about a month pre-foaling and WNV stand alone about a month after foaling. I will not give a WNV shot to PG mares.

That works for us, SO FAR, however, no one here has enough horses to call their own, or their associate's, experience definitive. Wer'e all just doing what we think is best.

Again, I'm sorry about what happened but I also know you were doing all you thought was right. You cannot really know if the mare had WNV w/o a necropsy and you can't go back do more than what you thought you should anyway... I am sorry for the heartache.

 

[drmatthewtaylor]

I'm sorry to hear about your bad experience.

Reasonable people can make their own decisions about their own animals. I encourage people to make decisions based on good information rather than rumors , poorly done studies, or guesses.

1) I do not know why your pony died, unfortunately I agree with you that without any tests performed, then the Vet's diagnosis was only a well educated guess. I would not make any decisions based on it.

2) West Nile vaccine has relatively few minor reactions and even fewer major reactions. After literally thousands of doses in all sizes of equine over many years, I can't remember even one. There are good reasons to decode to not vaccinate, I just do not believe possibility of reaction should be one of the.

3) Just because 'A' followed 'B' does not mean 'B' caused 'A'. Many things are temporally related that are not causative. Studies show about 10% of pregnant mares will abort on average every year (this includes mares who reabsorb a fetus).

Dr. Taylor

 

[Lizzie]

I do know someone who had several mares abort and have bad reactions, to the WNV shot. These were Gypsy Horses and not Minis, however. Those who did not receive the shot, had no problems. This was several years ago.

I have read a great deal about the problems associated with giving dogs, combo shots. My old vet, now retired, was the first one to bring this to the public's attention, about 30 years ago now. There have been tons of very well documented problems with combos in dogs. It has been fairly well documented, in bringing to the fore, demodectic mange in dogs. I personally had one of those dogs. At the time, I didn't connect it to possibly being the combo shot. I never give combo shots to any animals. Always, one at a time.

Lizzie

 

[Charlotte]

I have been using the PrestiegeV+WNV for over a year now with no problems. Prior to that I gave Prestiege V and WNV seperately with no problems....HOWEVER, I do not ever vaccinate a pregnant mare unless it is absolutely necessary (like buying an infoal mare who has never had a vaccination of any kind)

In the past I have had pregnant mares abort very soon (12 hours to 7 days) after being vaccinated for a variety of diseases, Rhino, SS/T, etc. We have had horses run VERY high fevers for as long as 6 days post vaccination. This could abort a foal according to my vets here. There will always be some animals and some humans who will react to the components in a certain vaccine. One of my 4 dogs reacts violently to vaccinations so will not be vaccinated again.

I do think that miniatures are the 'canary in the coal mine' of the equine world. Much more sensitive to the components in vaccines....when you think that they may weigh 100 lbs (weanlings/yearlings) as compared to a horse weighing 1,200 lbs getting the same dose, well.............

The loss of the filly is very sad, but it doesn't sound like there is now any way to know the cause.

 

[JMS Miniatures]

I used for the first time this year the Prestige V + WNV combo and no reactions. This was the first year I vaccinated against WNV and will continue to do so. However I would be a little leary with the pregnant mares like the rhino shot for the 5th, 7th, and 9th months of pregnancy while they are in foal.

I guess what you have to ask yourself is are you more afraid of the shot or the disease itself. With the countless human reports of west nile this year I am glad I vaccinated for it. I think the vaccine is better then when it first came out but thats JMO.

 

[rubyviewminis]

We have used PrestigeV + WNV without any problems, but this year Masq had a serious reaction so next year my vet is going to give his vaccines seperately. It really scared me as I have never ever had a horse react to any vaccine before.

 

[eagles ring farm]

Thank's for starting this topic ...I think when I order my sping shots I will get the WNV separate for our pregnant mares we have always given the combo shots with no problem but rather safe than sorry just in case.

We do give Rhino but only at 5-1/2 and 8 mos I stopped gining 3(5,7,9) a few years ago just to have the last no so close to the 9th month at no ones recommendation just started on my own. We also do not have horses coming and going as we are a small farm. Never had a problem with the Rhino either (knock on wood)

 

[Carolyn R]

I personally don't care for the west Nile shot being doubled up in a combo. I always give a five way, and a few days later give the west Nile shots. I have had minis, ones certain year, and another the next that we're off the next day. Lasted about 24 hours, similar to when people get chills and a little achie after a flu shot. Never had severe reactions, but just a general depression, slow to eat, and well, achie.