Vet visit - good news and puzzling info

[chandab]

Sorry to hear, since you were so hoping.

How tall is she again? You don't want to diet her too fast, as that can cause it's own problems. We can help you with an appropriate diet, it might involve you getting a scale to weigh her feed (a diet scale or a baby scale works great to weigh hay, many pick them up at second hand stores pretty cheap). [A hanging fish scale works too, but then you need a basket or something to put the hay in to weigh.] Once you get a feel for how much hay weighs, you won't need to weigh feed daily, just periodically to make sure you are still in the right ballpark. You can also guesstimate the weight of flakes by knowing the weight of the whole bale, counting the number of flakes in the bale and dividing.

 

[kevin27]

I'll have to measure her, and thanks a lot for the info on weighting out flakes! Need to find that info on measurement for mini's by the tape, calculation page.


How do people feel about grazing muzzles, do they come with some sort of breakaway if they get hung up on something?
I didnt know any better, and had aerated and seeded their back area with pasture seed, which never got a chance to really thrive, because they trimmed everything down as soon as it grew.
we dont have any bare areas really, except for a long 2nd driveway/road cutting a J shape through the property

it's either short lawn grass in front, or short pasture mix in back.
thank you

 

[FurstPlaceMiniatures]

Nobody can tell by simply looking at a horse if she's bred - not even a vet.

Dare I say a mare with that body condition would be a big risk for something to go wrong with foaling. If she were mine I'd be relieved she was not bred, even though I know how much you were hoping. Go for the future when she is healthier and fitter, a less risky, less potential for heartbreak foaling then!

Weight loss isn't as complicated as everyone makes it sound. Less food, better food, and more exercise. Just like people! Use common sense and you will be fine - for example build it up slow. I lunge until they are visibly tired and sweaty, then go 5 more trot circles before cooling down.

 

[kevin27]

the image that was put up on that thread from 2007 or whenever doesnt show up at all for me

http://www.whinny4me.com/Horse-Info/Mini-Weight--smaller.jpg


If you want to actually calculate your minis weight, plug the numbers in such as"
body weight = (9.36 X girth in inches) + (5.01 X length in inches) - 348.53

maybe someone could run through this with me, please,
because I dont have a clue where to measure.

thanks!

 

[chandab]

This diagram from SmartPak shows where to measure for girth and length; and, while the calculator geared more towards full-size horses, it's not terribly far off the mark for minis (I'd try both the formula and the plugnplay calculator and see if there is much of a difference, the formula was designed for minis):

https://www.smartpakequine.com/content/horse-weight-calculator

 

[Debby - LB]

I'm really sorry to hear this, I know this is a huge disappointment for you and your family.

Kevin I myself would not drastically immediately cut her food, nor will you jump right in with a vigorous exercise program. You will need to gradually do this. Cut back and keep it consistent. I might have missed it, and am too lazy to go back right now to look, but what are you feeding her daily? I read above and see she does have pasture, but is she on that grass 24/7? How about hay, what kind do you have? If you can I would Not recommend completely restricting her forage. You can restrict and eventually stop the grain, you can restrict her grazing, but the hay I would have available to her 24/7. Restricting forage (hay and/or pasture) intake will lower your horse’s metabolic rate, slowing calorie expenditure and leading to weight gain.
Constantly eating good forage stimulates the metabolism, thereby promoting weight loss.

If you can only provide pasture then yes it's OK to use a grazing muzzle but only if she's supervised and if she tolerates it.

 

[kevin27]

I will get a cloth tape measure,

and get working on this. and

weights of the feed too.

I am grateful for the speed at which, good answers come, on the forum.

 

[chandab]

If you are feeding a commercial feed, most are pretty straight forward for directions. I've weighed lots of commercial feeds and found most pelleted feeds to be about 5-6oz per cup (standard kitchen dry measure cup), so about 3 cups per pound. Whole oats is about 4oz per cup. Rolled oats and barley mix 3.4 oz per cup. I don't feed sweet feed, so don't have a cup measure for that.

 

[kevin27]

Because at the start, last summer, we had a couple of months old , and what we thought was a preg mare,

I'm guessing too much, all the way around, right?

Michaels is huge inside, but after 3 tries, i have a cloth tape!

 

[Ryan Johnson]

Kevin sorry to read this , I gathered you were looking forward to your little mare having a foal.

You have received some great information from others here and I think its great you ask so many questions. We have all been in the same boat as you are and we will all continuing learning throughout life.

As Debby said above , you need to introduce the cutting back of food gradually. I would start by getting her off the pasture, this is probably the worst thing for her being that she is overweight. 24/7 access to good quality grass hay will be sufficient for her to start with.

Totally agree with Furstplace miniatures in regards to lunging her. If she doesnt get alot of exercise then do it until she feels warm/ little sweaty under her front legs then a little walk to cool her down before putting her away. Gradually build this up until she starts to gain some fitness. Just remember in this instance "slow and steady" wins the race.

Regarding the grazing muzzle, you will get alot of different opinions here, but at the end of the day, its whats best works for you. I am for the grazing muzzle for a few different reasons and use one on a little mare I have , but she does not wear it all the time. Where I am from there are two times during the year where sugar levels in the grass are really not good for miniature horse and ponies. After summer when the temps start to cool down and the paddocks start to green and after winter when the first of the warmer days arrive and things start to grow again. Being that the little mare foundered ( which is what we dont want happening to your little mare) she wears a muzzle to limit her intake of the high sugar level through the grass. At the same time she has access to plain grass hay and a mineral block. Once the grass starts to die off as the weather gets warmer it becomes safer for her to consume.

Keep us posted on her progress and ask as many questions as you like , we will be here to try and answer them for you.

Cheers Ryan

 

[kevin27]

I will get a cloth tape measure,

and get working on this. and

weights of the feed too.

I am grateful for the speed at which, good answers come, on the forum.

Katz 5 yrs old...comes in at 53" at the heart girth and 49" length to the tail center

47 if it's supposed to stop at the center of that leg muscle group.

The diagram isn't clear

Winston 181-186 lbs. 1 yr old male 39.5" heart girth, 34- 35" long

Katz 400-417lbs, @ 32" tall

I'll put up some feed details later or tomorrow

 

[kevin27]

Katz 5 yrs old...comes in at 53" at the heart girth and 49" length to the tail center

47 if it's supposed to stop at the center of that leg muscle group.

The diagram isn't clear

Winston 181-186 lbs. 1 yr old male 39.5" heart girth, 34- 35" long

Katz 400-417lbs, @ 32" tall

I'll put up some feed details later or tomorrow

 

[chandab]

Winston's weight sounds decent for his age and how tall is he?

Katz is quite portly if the calculations are right and you have her height correct. My 32.5" mare is a bit chubby at around 320#, she's been heavier.

From a reliable source, the fairly safe way to diet is to feed: 2% of ideal weight or 1.5% of current weight which ever is greater, with adjustments made as weight is lost. 300# might be close to right or a bit heavy for Katz at a more ideal weigh, 2% of that is 6# feed daily (that's hay/forage and grain, the majority, if not all, should be hay/forage), and wouldn't you know it 1.5% of 400# is also 6#, so I'd say start somewhere around there, maybe a little bit extra for a short time, while she adjusts to controlled feeding.

 

[kevin27]

Thanks for the great feedback and encouragement Ryan

 

[kevin27]

Winston's weight sounds decent for his age and how tall is he?

Katz is quite portly if the calculations are right and you have her height correct. My 32.5" mare is a bit chubby at around 320#, she's been heavier.

From a reliable source, the fairly safe way to diet is to feed: 2% of ideal weight or 1.5% of current weight which ever is greater, with adjustments made as weight is lost. 300# might be close to right or a bit heavy for Katz at a more ideal weigh, 2% of that is 6# feed daily (that's hay/forage and grain, the majority, if not all, should be hay/forage), and wouldn't you know it 1.5% of 400# is also 6#, so I'd say start somewhere around there, maybe a little bit extra for a short time, while she adjusts to controlled feeding.

thank you chandab, I am using the online calculator that was mentioned for my numbers.

he's approximately the same height as she is, just leaner, and a little lanky, I think he'll fill out though as he gets older.

She has always looked more stocky/thick and with more of a pony-like head to me.

Not that I'm any such expert on either.

I am not sure how long it should take to transition to a controlled feeding. 3-4 weeks?

I know for a fact the hay we have isnt anywhere near as appetizing as the grasses. we're buying it from a local agway type of business.

I'll take a photo tomorrow, it's stored in a horse trailer out of the elements. it's probably nothing exotic though.

so with the grain tapering off, the feed going to a standard pellet, vs the nursing mare and foal type, and

figuring out some practical way to limit them on pasture. salt and essential mineral blocks available.

gradually ramping up on the exercise. is this going take a year, 6 months?

one of our friends brought up a good point, that Katz if she wasnt actually pregnant all this time, should have gone into heat, probably twice, in the fall and again this spring?

something is weird about that, right ?

everyone's been fantastic on the forum, and I am really happy that we're getting good info!

 

[Ryan Johnson]

I have two mares and they are both very different from each other when they are in heat. One is VERY obvious where as the other is much harder to tell. So much so that last year I had my vet give her an injection that brought her into heat within 3-5 days from the injection. So she may have been in heat she just isnt as obvious as some mares can be.

 

[chandab]

It's hard to say how long the weight loss will take, just depends on if it was just overfeeding (thinking you were feeding a pregnant mare) or if there is something metabolic going on. If you see a difference in a month or so with just controlling her feed in take, then likely just overfeeding; if it takes longer it could be something metabolic or just her metabolism with nothing serious behind it.

I've found that my mares tend to weigh up a bit more than my stallions of similar height, just like women they tend to carry a bit more. [Geldings don't seem to follow any rules, some are chubby, some are slim, some are just right.] I do have an actual livestock scale, but I haven't weighed anybody this year, yet; guess it's time to calibrate the scale and run the herd across the scale and see where we are. [My BIL picked it up at an auction for a song, and gave it to us, I weigh bales on it, the horses, and a few novel items just because I can.]

The orange rectangle behind Tilly in this picture is the upright portion of the scale, there is a wooden platform on the ground for them to stand on, it can be a chore to get them to walk onto it, especially Tilly.



Couple weeks should be a decent transition time. As long as it's clean, and, mold and dust free, basic grass hay should be just fine. Take at least a week to transition from the mare/foal feed to the basic pellet; gradually reduce the mare/foal while you increase the basic pellet. So first couple days 1/4 new feed mixed with 3/4 old feed, then mix half-half for a couple days, then 3/4 new feed mixed with 1/4 old feed for a couple days. Typically minis only need the lower end of the recommended feed amounts; you'll likely have to do some math. Some directions just say 6# per day, well that is based on a 1000-1200# horse; so you'll have to do a little math to determine how much for a mini (usually 1/4-1/3 that amount). Some are per 100# bodyweight.

Some mares don't show much signs of cycling when they are overweight.

I've lost my train of thought so will stop here.

 

[kevin27]

I read somewhere, cant remember exactly,that you can make a "U" shaped walkway
around the perimeter of the pasture with fence, have their water at the far end.
it limits the amount of grass they can eat, and lets the larger fenced off part grow,
and they have to walk from one end to the other to get to the water.
At some point, you can let them graze in the untouched grass, for limited amounts of time.

Does this sound like it might be a solution?

During our walk yesterday (about 25 minutes) she was pretty perky, double timing it once she realized we were heading back.

I feel so terrible, she's gotten so big, she's so sweet and gentle.
thanks

 

[Ryan Johnson]

Dont feel bad Kevin , the most important thing is that you have a chance to get her weight under control before laminitis and other problems start to take hold.

When your out walking her, stick to walking her on the grass and try to keep her off stones and roads. It will be less pressure on her legs and will give her some comfort on her hooves.

What your talking about is a paradise track . If you hit the search icon up the top of the page have a search for paradise tracks as I think there was something on here recently about them. They are a good idea as it does encourage movement.

Keep us posted on her progress

 

[Debby - LB]

Kevin please don't feel terrible, don't beat yourself up over it. I think when it comes to feeding these little horses most all of us have had problems of either over or under feeding. I know those words won't help much right now so try to just focus on the future. Miniature Horses are both hardy and fragile. Some are like air ferns... and some require supplemental feeding to stay in shape, you'll just need to find a balance for her. It may be a little time consuming and aggravating, mainly because you have two horses with two very different metabolisms and nutritional needs. This alone will make it hard, I know because I have one who is the aforementioned "air fern" She has to have her food restricted, and then another who can eat as much as she wants and always looks just right.

YES what you mentioned is a very good idea! Cross fencing is imperative with small acreage and will serve you well.