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Jess P

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We have had the vet out, a farrier, and the vet is returning on Friday.

My 10 year old Gelding is extremely sore, so sore that hes laying down today. It started about a month ago with him being a little lame and has just worsened. It seems that it is in his shoulder and legs, not his hooves. We thought of lyme disease and started treating him with that but he has just gotten worse. Anyone have any experience with this??

We just want him to be better.
 

Marty

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He could be in stages of foundering.

Reach down and feel his feet and see if they feel hot to you.

Do it a few times and be sure his feet are not wet when you check them.

Also feel for heat in his legs.
 

wildoak

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Sure sounds more like a founder if he isn't wanting to stand up. Assume your vet checked for that though. Is he feverish, have any other symptoms?

Jan
 

Fred

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I saw the horse and mentioned he might have lamminitis and suggested he be tested for ACTH, IR, and thyroid. He was walking like a lamminitc horse to me. Your mother called the vet and what she told me was that he was put on bannamine and was walking better and the vet didn't agree with my suggestion. The boy has fatty pads and all the indications of what I suggested. Good luck. Linda
 

JourneysEnd

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Why do you think it's not in the feet ?

Have you checked the digital pulse ?

Is this a mini ?

Have the vet do x-rays of the feet and check for rotation, if you can get the horse up.

Not all vets are up to date on laminitis. If Linda thought that's what it is, I'd take her word over the vet.
 

chandab

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We have had the vet out, a farrier, and the vet is returning on Friday.

My 10 year old Gelding is extremely sore, so sore that hes laying down today. It started about a month ago with him being a little lame and has just worsened. It seems that it is in his shoulder and legs, not his hooves. We thought of lyme disease and started treating him with that but he has just gotten worse. Anyone have any experience with this??

We just want him to be better.
I thought the same thing when my silver mare acted in a similar way two years ago; I finally hauled her 150 miles to the equine vet with x-ray capabilities and she had foundered with rotation. I did not see the signs I expected to see in a foundering horse, so I missed catching it right away. She had rotation front and rear, which is probably why I didn't see all the normal signs (I also didn't have a regular good farrier at the time, as there weren't any for a 50+ mile radius, so didn't have a farrier available to offer his/her expertise). [i do think contaminated feed was what set my girl off (realization after the fact), but it was the middle of winter with ice, so at the time, I thought she had slipped, fallen and pulled something.] As soon as realized what was going on; I put her on a low NSC diet, which around here involved special ordering and shipping in low NSC grass hay pellets (I was about out of grass hay). She has now almost fully recovered; she lives on drylot year-round, no grazing for her and she gets low carb feed to ensure she gets her nutrients. There is much more to it, but it seems many of these little guys have a higher tolerance for pain than the full-size horses do (at least that has been the case with my minis vs my bigs).
 

MBennettp

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Certainly sounds like founder to me too. Please for his sake, get him to a vet that knows what founder is and what to look for. Have him x-rayed and make sure what you are dealing with. Banamine will help with the pain but if he is foundered, he needs much more than just banamine in order to have a chance at a normal life.

I have had several people over the years call me to come after their ponies and minis because there was something wrong with them. More than once, the poor animal had foundered with no vet intervention and no medication or diet change and had to be put down or just couldn't stand the pain anymore and gave up.

Please get a different vet's opinion if your vet won't at least run the tests and do x-rays. Your boy is most certainly in pain and he needs different things than just banamine.

I don't want to scare you and don't want you to think I am picking on you but I also know you don't want to lose him because he didn't get what he needed.

Mary
 

Marty

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If you were lucky enough to have Linda come to your home and give her opinion that your horse is foundering, you better take that to the bank and count on it. That would be good enough for me. Change vets and get another opinion because founder is deadly serious and horribly painful which becomes unbearable in some cases. By all means call in another vet for another opinion quickly. The horse responded on banamine, but that is not going to fix a horse that is foundering. Time is not on your side and to try to repair damage from founder, you have to get very aggressive. Meanwhile, strip your stalls down really good and add very good clean ample super fluffy bedding also. Best of luck to your and your little guy and please keep us posted. If you need links to read over, just pm me and I've got plenty of them handy for you. Hugs.

ps: Begin soaking your horses feet right away in cold water for about 15 minute intervals about 3 -4 times a day plus banamine until a vet can get there. Not meaning to be handing out vet advice like that but you have an emergency going on there.
 
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Minimor

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I would agree with the others that it is probably founder, and since Linda saw him & said it looks like founder to her, I would believe that she is right.

Laminitis will often make a horse appear to be stiff and sore in his shoulders, back or hindquarters, even all of those, and if a person isn't familiar with the symptoms of laminitis, they may be fooled into thinking that the problem isn't in the feet at all. Laminitis doesn't always cause noticeable heat in the feet. There is almost sure to be a digital pulse, but I know that with minis a digital pulse may be very much less obvious than a digital pulse in a big horse--in Minis it can easily be missed.

Banamine may help; bute is actually much more effective than banamine for many horses that have laminitis. I know that bute must be used with caution in Minis, but sometimes it does need to be used.

However, it will take more than bute or banamine to get your horse fixed up. You will need to change his feeding program. What is he on for hay? Any pasture? You will want to keep him off pasture, and if he's getting alfalfa he should be switched to grass hay only. Depending what he's getting for grain you may need to change or reduce his ration. If he's fat it will be best if he loses weight, though you don't want to try and take the weight off of him too quickly--hyperlipemia is always a possibility. And as someone already mentioned, it may be advisable to have him tested for cushings and IR
 

Jill

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Jess --

I also am wondering if it could be founder. Are the hoofs warm? (touch and compare to other horses').

A few years ago, we had a mare who lightly foundered. She is no longer with us sadly (very sadly), but nothing to do with the founder. I watched her for almost a week sure she'd pulled a muscle and thinking it was up in her back leg... I've had horses since 1995 and ride. I thought I *knew* how to tell where she was hurting. Finally realized I needed the vet and it was founder (light) and in the front. I think it helped my poor mare that we had snow on the ground while I watched and waited on her "pulled muscle" to feel better.

I'd confine the horse to a very small area and get the vet out. For our mare, we had to put her in a deeply bedded 8x8 stall, give banamine and ice her feet. There are other ways and maybe better ways, but this was what our vet had us do.

Good luck,

Jill
 

Kathy2m

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You need to find a good vet and listen to Linda.

I take care of an OLD 47 year old pony that has foundered a few times. She did it every time the spring grass came in and she ate the seed tops, now we know and they get mowed down. This is what my vet suggests 1) take away ALL grain for a week 2)no pasture for a week 3) small amounts of grass hay and bute for the pain. My farrier would pad her and squirt something under the pad that cushions the sole(cant remember the name now)put bar shoes on her, don't think you can do the latter. Good Luck, Kathy
 

ChrystalPaths

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Jess, Linda was my farrier a good long time (miss her) and she told me long time ago my Treasure was in the early stages of founder/laminaitis. I got the vet, she concurred we did all we could stall rest, no grain, no grass, all the right things but we lost her. Listen and be very careful, this is a disease I loathe and despise.
 

HGFarm

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I would either get a second opinion from another vet or insist that your vet test for founder....

I dont know Linda, nor have we ever met to my knowledge, LOL, but I can tell you from her conversations here on the Forum she is pretty darned sharp on these things! Banamine or bute will cover the symptoms- until you take them off of it, but it does not prevent it from continuing to damage the horse.

I would persue this with a vet before the horse is too far damaged. This is a horrible disease from which there is no turning back once the damage is done.
 

Jess P

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My mare Chantilly founders every spring because of shots and the change in weather. She stands in a rockinghorse position and is very tender on her feet when she walks. She also usually goes off her grain and has a fever.

Dusty is doing none of this. He seems in good spirits despite being sore. The way he walks makes it look like his legs and shoulders are more sore than anything.

I compared his hooves to others. They are not any warmer or colder than my other horses. He also has quite an appetite. When the vet was out he tested his hooves to see if he was tender from founder and he wasn't.

I will ask my vet for a second opinion when he comes on Friday. But the other farrier I had out agreed it did not seem to be founder.
 

Fred

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You asked for advice and got it and I'm sorry its not what you wanted to hear. If the mare founders each spring with shots and weather changes she too has an underlying problem that should be addressed. Lamminitic horses do not always follow the norm and there is not always heat in the feet. I would not trust any opinion from WFVC unless it was from Dr Salkovitch. He knows horses and legs better than anyone in the area. One particular vet from that practice insisted a horse had thrush when in fact it had lamminitis. The person went back and asked for Dr Salkovitch and he confirmed the horse was indeed foundering. Good luck.
 

Marty

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If these were my horses, their little assets would be in a hospital until tests were run and answers

were found. I could never imagine having a horse go through that kind of pain every year and not be addressed. Apparently Dusty is on his way too with one thing or another. Lamenss, laying down, soreness, all are signs there is very bad trouble with both your horses and for their sakes I hope you will get a vet out there who can get a handle on this and fast.
 

MBennettp

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My mare Chantilly founders every spring because of shots and the change in weather. She stands in a rockinghorse position and is very tender on her feet when she walks. She also usually goes off her grain and has a fever.

Dusty is doing none of this. He seems in good spirits despite being sore. The way he walks makes it look like his legs and shoulders are more sore than anything.

I compared his hooves to others. They are not any warmer or colder than my other horses. He also has quite an appetite. When the vet was out he tested his hooves to see if he was tender from founder and he wasn't.

I will ask my vet for a second opinion when he comes on Friday. But the other farrier I had out agreed it did not seem to be founder.
If these were my horses I would not ever let them be in pain like this. They need to be seen by a vet with knowledge enough to know what to do to help them. I would never let an animal of mine go this long in pain.

Please, Please get a second vet opinion and try to find a vet that knows founder and what to look for and what to do to help them. A horse that is foundering may not act like it is it's feet that are bothering it and will not necessarily be off their feed.

Founder can be treated if caught early enough and can be controlled with diet and medication.

Without treatment founder can kill them. Please make sure they are on clean, deep, soft bedding and cut out the grain and give grass hay only and get them some real help from a vet that knows feet and legs, what to check for and how to treat.

If your vet specializes in cattle they might not be aware of signs of founder.
 

kaykay

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Jess

Until you get an answer I would treat this horse like a foundered horse. No grain, grass hay, no grass pasture and stall rest with thick bedding to cushion the hooves.
 

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