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bpotze

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I have been raising minis for ten years...and I have never had one that wouldn't let her foal nurse...so this is new to me....tiny little appy colt born at 3 am this morning....maiden mare...foaling went okay...mom had a little trouble pushing him out even though he is small...after foaling she didn't get up for 20 minutes and neither did he....after she passed the placenta...I went inside and watched to see if he was nursing....and after an hour...I went out and milked out some colostrum...which he eagerly sucked from a syringe...then guided him to the right place and mom started swishing her tail and bumping him with her head to knock him out of the way....any time he would get close she would move away....so I tied her up and he latched on for a short time...and oh yes....this mare has virtually no bag....but she does have colostrum...so I watched again from inside and she just won't let him nurse....had the vet come out and pull an IGG....and it was good....and again...we held mom and he latched on .... but she still won't let him nurse....I can do my best milking her out and then syringing it into the little one...but any suggestions would be appreciated....we had to be gone for 5 hours today...and when we got home I was pretty sure she hadn't let him nurse....as he acted starved....I have a donkey that is lactating...so I milked her and fed him that....as mom still has no bag...and very little to offer him....Any ideas????

Thanks

Becky
 
we had a similar incident here and the vet gave us a tube of stuff to bring in her milk. She developed a bag in a very short time - by the 2nd day a noticeable difference. I think if you continue milking her to get it in him - it would be better to have her milk and the more you milk her the more milk should "let" down I'd think - it did for us at least. I want to say the stuff was Domperidon (without looking at it, that's my recollection)? its a paste like a wormer that we gave her twice per day and within 48 hours she had noticeable development Our continued efforts and milking her also promoted the bag to increase along with the medication. Your vet should know exactly what this product is to improve lactation - and bag growth.

For quick and easy milking, use the syringe method shown in the LB info pages - it works beautifully -

Good luck with your mare and foal - I hope she comes around soon for you as its quite exhausting to attempt to bottle feed a foal.
 
So sorry for your issues! I would bottle feed but then also try to keep the foal nursing. Let him nurse first then finish with a bottle.

I have found the old gerber plain baby bottle nipples work best
 
my maiden mare had NO bag this year.still doesn't even with a foal...but has a healthy happy 1.5 month old foal on her side. you'd laugh at how small she was/is. I freaked out the first week that she wasn't producing enough milk/colostrum etc!!! apparently they don't have to have big boobies to produce enough milk!!! If it's just her not wanting the foal to nurse i'd sedate her with a little ace for a while and let the foal nurse as much as he wants if your not able to be around. If your able to be around twitch her and force the issue. let him nurse as much as he can to help let her milk down.
 
I'll have to get back with my vet in the morning about the tranquilizer....baby did latch on for a bit a few minutes ago....she still doesn't have a big bag...guess that isn't the big issue...as long as she produces enough for him....I think the tranquilizer would be a good thing....and then just hope that things come into place for her....I do hope she is a good mom....I've never had a bad one....or one that took so long to take to her baby...

Thanks for your input...and I think I'll get a baby bottle just in case....it would be a lot better than a syringe....
 
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I asked my vet this spring when I helped a neighbor with a mare who didn't want anything to do with their foal if some ace would be ok (because I couldn't stand there with them all day and do what needed to be done and they were afraid of the mare) and he said ace was fine and was actually a good idea in that case. If it helps make things easier to get her to accept it I'm all for it. Also a bottle is a good idea..i've found a human baby bottle with a human nipple works really well ..they don't seem to like the "horse" nipples you buy. Usually once the mare figures out the foal nursing relieves her bag and feels good they'll accept the foal....if you can get bay the first day or so and make her relise everything is hunky dory they'll come around. don't get discouraged!
 
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I had this happen just once and it was a maiden mare and she was in pain and had a very tiny bag that I was certain had no milk.

First I gave her banamine for pain and that helped so much and there was a fast change in her attitude. I did have to tie her up and help until she figured out the baby wasn't going to hurt her by nursing.

The baby was in fact nursing, but on what? Apparently even though I couldn't express a darn drop and the bag wasn't hardly a bag, that baby was getting something from somewhere! I conjured up some domperidone too and gave it but in hindsight, I probably didn't need it because there was no change in the size of the bag and that baby was still happily latching on. As I said, he was getting something from somewhere! I'd say banamine is what helped us the most. Good luck with your little one.
 
When the foal nurses it causes their uterus to contract and contract hard! Many mares find the pain almost unbearable, both maiden and experienced. But a maiden mare that is not exactly having the normal mothering instinct and gets really uncomfortable every time baby nurses, will usually keep rejecting. I agree with Marty, give her Banamine for the first couple of days every 12 hours to help alleviate the pain of a contracting uterus until the mothering instinct turns on and her milk gets plentiful. After a couple days the uterus may still contract some but by then the mare is usually good to go. I do think you may want to contact your vet about all of this though and come up with a good plan.
 
I would see if you can get something to make more milk come in and dont know that I would bottle feed unless you are sure she just doesnt have enough. The foals test came back good so she must be producing something. I would just keep going out and catching the mare so he can nurse until she gets used to the idea and does it on her own.... ??
 
It would be unusual for the milk not to come in- unless the mare really has NO milk, including colostrum, then I would not use a milk inducer as you can end up with a bit too much milk!

I had a mare foal down, a maiden too, four years ago, and it took about ten days before she was really OK with the foal- she was definitely intent on rejecting and I aced her into a haze and then went out every two hours and put the foal on. If you want to raise the foal on the mare it is fairly important not to bottle feed it too much and to make sure the bag is stripped out each and every time you take milk- if you are not experienced at milking a mare I would be inclined to give it a miss and depend on the foal drinking stimulating the milk- somehow it does so more than milking.

Allow the foal to butt and bump the mare, this can alarm a new Mama and put her off.

Funnily enough the same mare foaled a few days ago, her fourth foal, and she had, again, no bag- the wax was all that was in there, and she foaled in two seconds, did not lie down, and the foal came in the bag + placenta- so a bit of a rush all told.

Once again she was intent on not raising this foal!

She is a good mare and a good mother but, maybe because of the lack of bag, she had little inclination to nurse her. I kept and eye and I held her until the foal was nursing strongly, and I also stripped out the bag ever half an hour until the milk was through- that will do it as well as any stimulant.

In your case I would strongly recommend sedating the mare and stripping out the bag every half an hour until the foal is nursing strongly and the mare is accepting the foal. When I started cutting back on the ace the mare went into rejection mode again and I upped it at night only, again, to give me a bit of a break, and in the day, when I could see more clearly, I lowered the dose. As I said it was ten to fifteen days before she was acting normally, so be patient.

I would definitely give banamine, not bute (anti inflammatory is contra indicated) I do just as rote now for my foaled mares, but do not lose heart, it will take time but everything should be OK.

At ten days I did allow the foal to get hungry- that was key as he was used now to nursing, had no idea Mama was on cloud nine, and so got stroppy with her when she pulled faces at him, and she was AMAZED by that, and just stood there looking at him!

This time she still nips at her daughter and I have even seen her lift a leg to her, but the foal is a little madame and will have none of it, so the mare just gives up and stands there.
 
Good advice. I've never had to sedate a mare to accept a foal, but I'm sure that will come one day.

I'd keep the foal on the mare as much as possible so she produces the best amount of milk. If the foal gets use to the ease of a bottle he may not want to suckle as hard on his dam either. Plus you want her to associate the relief on her bag with him nursing.

The pain for maidens is not always fun to watch and we've had a few mares here that were a fight to get them to accept a foal, but never more than a few hours.

Annie one of my new mom's this year was funny though, she let her daughter nurse but made this high pitch squeal the whole time. She also felt it necessary to stand on three legs to give her daughter a clear shot at her udder. It took a few days for her to realize the foal could nurse while she stood normally.
 
I got up every two hours last night to milk the mom out and feed the colt....early this morning...I finally was able to hold her and get the colt to get to the milk bar by himself....so now I go out every two hours to hold her so he can nurse....she just has no interest in him at all....she will raise her leg once or twice while he is nursing and do a lot of tail swishing...but I keep petting her and telling her how good she is....after a bit she will finally lower her head a bit....she had tried a few times to bite him...

if this continues into tomorrow I will have to get the ace for her....If I open up her stall door and let her out into the barn aisleway and out the run...she takes off without a second look back to see about him....I hope it doesn't take her 10 days to accept this little guy.....I'll post some pics of him soon....this mare is a lovely bay pinto with blue eyes bred to a tiny blue roan appaloosa...so I was surprised when this guy came out with a blanket...and black....I have bred the stallion to an appy mare and got solid black....

thanks for everyones replies....

Becky
 
I hope it works out!!! A couple of years ago, we had an experienced mare reject her colt but it was following a traumatic birth and a long process with the vet. I think we disrupted the bonding experience and if i could go back, there are a number of things I'd have done differently. I held her every 2hrs for 3 days before finally getting the colt to drink from a bowl (not a bottle, that isn't the easiest or best). She got to the point where I couldn't trust her alone with him and was charging him. I hope it will not go that way for you, but if it does, I can tell you some of the tips that helped us hand raise Trooper. I think there may be some threads about "orphan" foal on the "BEST OF" forum, too. Hoping it won't go there in terms of hand raising, but if it does, at least there will be some who can give you advice and help it to go as smoothly as possible. My heart goes out to you. I remember how frustrated, scared and exhausted I was a day or two into Trooper's life.
 

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