Update on my "intruder/security system" post

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StarRidgeAcres

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As many of you know I had an intruder come into my home a few weeks back. It was during the night and it was very scary but I was lucky. Nothing was taken and no harm was done. I lost a little sleep and I was mad as heck, but overall, no harm.

So about 10 days later I got what I touted as the "best security system ever!" I got Dobby, a (roughly) 2 year old female rottweiler. She came from a kill shelter in Union, MO which is about an hour and a half from me. I later learned she was 9 days shy of her date with the "chamber."

She was presented by the shelter as a stray, no information other than she'd obviously had puppies - possible multiple litters - and that she had shown some aggression while at the shelter. They even were still toying with whether or not they thought she was adoptable. I went to see her with my friend Michele who is an experienced dog handler and has many years of dog training while in the military. We looked at many dogs and all prior to Dobby were deemed unsuitable for me for one reason or another. But Dobby seemed like she might work.

Brought her home and she was very sweet. Days went by...and I'm starting to think "too sweet." Doesn't even bark when my other dogs bark, shows NO protective instinct, obviously was bonding with me, but totally deferring to me. She lacked confidence, would seem totally broken if I reprimanded her for something. I took her to one professional trainer for an eval for "protection" training. He talked to me, handled her a bit, worked her "on the wall" as he called it. She showed all the signs of not being suitable. No prey drive, not fighting back, just sort of the "I'll just lay here and you can kill me" attitude. Even my chihuahua had put her in her place.

So more days go by and I'm waiting for the second eval from a trainer I'd used about 10 years ago with my Italian Greyhound for basic obedience. He wasn't really a typical obedience instructor but he was the only one I could find at that time that said an IG was "trainable." Yes, for whatever reason, every place I called said "oh, you have an IG? No, we can't help you." what??? But this guy trained drug and protection dogs but said "of course an IG can be obedience trained!" Well, Jack (my beloved IG) never graduated but we had a blast!!

So back to now and Dobby. As the days passed I became more and more depressed about her. She was showing all the wrong signs, I was fearing I needed to make the horrible decision to return her to that awful place because I just can't have another animal to take care of that doesn't have a job. I just can't. Or do I try to find her a home on my own? It was horrible. But this afternoon was AMAZING!!! I took her to see Rob. He now trains people and not so much dogs anymore, but he said he'd take a look at her. We sat down at his place and he had about 5 of his students there and they all had dogs with them. He sat about 5' away from us and we just talked. As he was talking he was also sizing her up. He started to make direct eye contact with her, moved closer to us, made some quick movements with his hands while staring her in the eye. She did nothing. Like he wasn't even there. I was heartbroken. All I'd read said she should have been responding to his posturing.

He was starting to talk to me about "what will you do with this dog if she doesn't work out?" And also to go through the "levels" of protection training. There are 3 by the way. Then all of a sudden he said "I have an idea!" He had me stand and hold her with very little slack and very tightly. He got out a traditional lounge whip and waived it in the air. Nothing from Dobby. THEN... he cracked it! O M G! She came UNGLUED!! She lunged at him, snarled, barked, all of it! I almost started crying. He told me to praise her. When I petted her back and leaned over said "good girl" in her ear as she was snarling it was like the light finally came on! She took it to a whole different level! I could hardly hold her! It was astonishing to me and also such a relief. Within 5 minutes he had her totally reacting to his aggressive stance (he had put the whip away after the first crack) and when she'd bark and snarl, he'd run away. And it took her NO TIME to figure out "I bark, he goes away!" It was amazing.

After he'd tried a few things with her, he stopped, walked very calmly toward us, sat down in front of her and she kissed his cheek!!!
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It was a sight to see. She'd read his body language PERFECTLY and knew when he was bad and when he was good. Remember, this is a dog that wouldn't even bark when my others were going nuts at home.

After loving on her for a bit, he looked up at me and said "I thought for a minute she didn't have it in her, but this is one smart dog and she is going to be perfect for what you want." HUGE relief!! And you should have seen his students!
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They were as amazed as I was!

They all followed me to the parking lot because he wanted to try one more test with her before we left. He had me put her in the car and then drive past him with the window down a couple of inches. At first when he approached the car she was like "whatever" but then he tapped on the glass and she lost it. Then after a few seconds, he relaxed his posture and slowly put his hand in the window and she licked it! He sent me on my way with the promise that she could do it and we'd talk next week about when to meet again. He also said that when she's getting close to being done with her training he will come out to my farm and work with her here just to make sure she knows it's me and the home she's to protect, not just me at the training facility.

At this point I haven't decided if we're only going to do level 1 or if I'm going to pursue level 2. Thoughts? Level 1 is bark, snarl, act like a fool on command and then stop on command. Level 2 is level 1 plus knowing how to "hold" someone and if that someone moves they get a bite on the arm or leg until told to release. Level 3 is when you can send them after someone. I know for sure I don't need that.

Sorry this was so long, but i'm just so darn thrilled that she will work and I don't have to face the terrible decision of what to do with her if she didn't. And as a last note, when I came home tonight from dinner I heard her bark for the first time from inside the house when she heard me open the back gate!
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Here are a couple of update pics. The first one is showing her VERY expensive collar I bought her! It was like buying a freakin' show halter! Most expensive collar I'll ever buy!
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It has studs on it. Isn't it adorable????

Thanks for letting me share. How does a dog that is so beautiful and so darn smart end up DAYS from the gas chamber? What is wrong with people??? I guess they are like me...don't know how to get out of her what is expected. Thank God for Rob!!!
 
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One more pic

And this is one with that "what?" look she has!
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I love your girl! I have a bit of a crush on her!
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I'm sure she'll "grow into" her new collar!
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Maybe it'll take a little time to show her what you want, but it'll be worth it when you have years of having a great dog!

I'm so glad you didn't give up on her so quickly Parm!
 
Holy Cow Parm. I have to wonder if the trainer isn't heading for some serious attack Schutzhund training. You need to really find that out because if that is where this is headed, full blown attack dog training can be very dangeous. You can create a monster.

We have a very aggressive dog here, Devin, but he's so old now he barely gets around. We have had years of having to post dangerous dogs signs up all around and I promise you if the dog bite anyone at all, you are in for some serious do-do. It is such a huge responsibilty to have a vicious dog, or especially a dog you basically created to attack, you can be opening up such a can of worms. It sounds like he did find what button to push with her to get her to respond. It could also be the fact that he raised his hand to her with an object and she could have maybe been formerlly abused and that triggerd something in her. Maybe you guys really need to dicuss these liabilities. At least she is showing some good signs now of alerting you and is now barking. She is drop dead gorgeous by the way.
 
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I appreciate your concern Marty and yes, he is a Schutzhund trainer (more into drug dogs now, but still a Schutzhund trainer). And yes, there are liabilities with having a dog that is aggressive and also one that is trained to be aggressive. But there are also liabilities with having people come into your home while you are sleeping and think they can get away with it. Kind of like having a gun. I've always heard a saying about if you shoot someone who has come into your home, you'd better kill them and not just injure them because of the increased liability/legal trouble with an injury versus someone who is dead and can't speak for themselves. The world is full of risks and consequences. But I'm not having another univited guest. Just not going to put up with it. And if one approaches and sees/hears her on the other side of the door/fence and they still come into MY space, well that's not someone that I think I'm going to be able to reason with with words.

I've known this man for over 10 years and he's the best in the business - at least in the St. Louis Metro area. And more importantly, I trust him. I took a dog I rescued to him about 8 years ago and he told me "I know you want to help this dog, but he is trouble. You need to get rid of him now because he is not right in the head and there is nothing you are going to do to change that. He is going to be trouble and he is going to get Jack (my IG) hurt." Well, I thought I knew better and that love and understanding would prevail. I had that dog he said to get rid of for 8 years until his passing this spring. Was Rob correct? Yep. He was a nightmare, he attacked Jack twice in the 5 years I had them both and he tore up my home and I went through pet sitter after pet sitter because nobody would put up with him. But I thought I knew better. I didn't. I should have trusted Rob but I ignored his warnings. Am I glad Toby had a final home for his last years? Yes, but Rob was 100% correct.

As the next weeks and months progress if Rob sees anything that tells him I'm not going to be able to control this dog, he will tell me right out. But he also knows I'm not kidding around and I'm not having another person come INTO MY HOME when I'm sleeping. It's my property and I have a right to protect it. I have a right to a gun, a taser, a baseball bat and/or a dog.

Marty, I know you and I know you are ONLY concerned with my well-being and I love you for that. I appreciate your concern and I will keep your words in mind. I'm just saying I have thought this through and there were many avenues I could take but I chose this one. Hopefully it will work out beautifully and there will never be another instance where we'll even know how she'll react. But maybe there will.

One thing I know for sure. As time goes by and more people - UPS delivery guy, plumber, kids who cleans stalls, neighbor out for a jog, etc. sees a dog with gnashing teeth inside my 5' fence, the word will get around. Just like word got around that I was now out here by myself. It will now be "I see you've gotten a dog" when I'm standing in line at Walmart to pay for my groceries. Instead of what I get today which is "how are you doing out there by youself?" Innocent enough question, but I'm tired of hearing it.

Thanks Marty. I do hear you and I do appreciate your concern and I will be paying close attention.
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And thanks Robin. She's a very smart dog and is very beatiful too. And so good with my little dogs, the barn cats and the horses. I got lucky.

ETA: Marty, I asked for opinions/thoughts, so thanks again for yours, but most of all thanks for your concern. You're a gem!
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She is beautiful. You are meant to be with that dog. Rotts are a breed apart. I had one and miss Arthur terribly. I knew he had my back, yet also knew that my grandchildren could climb on him like a jungle gym and he would have that goofy grin on his face. I never worried about him hurting anyone in his "family." He was a gentle and tender as any dog I have ever had. Yet he could sense right from wrong. I found out after I bought my house that the former owners sold drugs from the place so had "visitors" at odd hours in the night. To be able to go to the door, holding on to Arthur's harness, and know I would be fine is something I have not felt since he passed to the bridge. My insurance will not allow me to have another, nor will my heart. I do enjoy seeing, and loving on, other people's big guys. Thanks for sharing, and enjoy the ride. She WILL have your back, it seems, yet she will also give you, and your's, love and support whenever you ask for it.

Darn, now you have me crying...
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Parmela, I'm glad Rob will not only train Dobby, but YOU as well. That in itself is huge. I just wanted to add....she is such a beautiful girl, and I'm glad you didn't give up on her so quickly. My well wishes for you and Dobby for a path to a wonderful relationship. May she guard and love you and "her pack" to no end. Give her a big ((Hug)) for me.
 
Very interesting. I don't know about having a dog trained as an attack dog. I have seen a dog go after a child who was afraid of dogs in a split second, because the kid didn't understand the "hi dog, how are you?" friendly stance. The child was acting odd and afraid, so the dog took the opportunity. After seeing that, I wouldn't trust to have a dog like that. I like my dogs subservient and friendly
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But good luck, I hope it works out for you!

Andrea
 
Very interesting. I don't know about having a dog trained as an attack dog. I have seen a dog go after a child who was afraid of dogs in a split second, because the kid didn't understand the "hi dog, how are you?" friendly stance. The child was acting odd and afraid, so the dog took the opportunity. After seeing that, I wouldn't trust to have a dog like that. I like my dogs subservient and friendly
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But good luck, I hope it works out for you!

Andrea
Your Dobby sounds like a very smart dog.A good protector will sense when something is wrong and protect the owner.They don't need to be attack trained.I had shepherds for over 40 years-none ever attack trained, but they cornered people they viewed as a threat.sounds like ytour dog has bonded with you and wants to protect you.Sometimnes having a trained attack dog can backfire from your original intention.Dogs are waaay smarter than we give them credit for being.I don't think you have to worry about any intruder again.
 
I read your other "intruder/security system" post first, and then this one. It was a great idea for you to get a dog, IMO. I mean a big protective dog.
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I have two LGDs and two dogs in the house, a Great Dane and a Catahoula, and when I'm here alone I feel safe. When I'm taking care of the horses the LGDs have my back-- 100 pound super-protective spayed female Anatolian Shepherd, and 165 pound you-don't-want-to-meet-him-face-to-face Great Pyr/Anatolian mix. My house dogs are with me when I'm doing yard work or inside, day and night, and even people who have seen my 34", 145 pound Great Dane several times still comment on just how BIG she is. My stepdad tells me that he thinks I'd be surprised what lengths my Dane would go to, to protect me, but I've got a good idea.
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She's friendly and sweet but I've also seen her snarling at more than one person that she sensed could be a threat and knew that if they'd made a move for me, she'd not allow it.
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My Catahoula, at "just" 60 pounds, is the smallest dog here. But she is pure muscle with lots of speed, and since Catahoulas were bred to hunt wild boar and round up feral cattle, she's got what it takes to stand up to an intruder. The UPS guy never sticks around for me to open the door when he delivers something, lol!
 
Parmela-In the pics Dobby looks so sweet! Kudos girl!!
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You hit the nail on the head when you were talking about town folk asking how living alone was...it just takes one weirdo to hear that and look out.It is an awful feeling when "your" space has been invaded. So now the talk will be about "that dog" I am sure it will make most people think twice. In todays world a girls gotta do what a girls gotta do...take care of herself! You have given that dog a wonderful home and a job to do when things were not looking so good for her. Wishing you the best.
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I am so glad you posted an update.

I am thrilled that Dobby has bonded with you and I truly believe she "knows" you rescued her and now it's her turn to help rescue you.

Dogs are intuitive and I know that when I had my Rottie Ebony people always commented on how "huge" she was, etc.....and yet the most lovely, friendly dog I have ever owned. Would she protect me? Maybe, but her looks and size alone never had to put that to the test.......

I am so happy you did not have to return her, that would have just broken my heart.......she just needed to know what her new job is.....you have a remarkable dog there Parmela.
 
I'm so glad things are working out for you and Dobby! I absolutely love that second picture of her. She looks like she has a lot of personality. I know what it is like to feel so vulnerable. Many years ago my family's house was broken into while we were in it sleeping. The thiefs didn't hurt anybody, but they got away with a lot of our stuff and since then, I just never feel safe at night when I head to bed. Yep, I'm still scared of the dark! When I have my collie next to me though, it's the only time I don't wake up 10 times during the night thinking I hear someone in the house. A couple weeks ago I woke up to her growling and I quick turned the light on only to find that the cat was trying to get in the bedroom. How's that for security!
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I have always believed that you do not need to teach a dog to "attack and protect". This type of training has its place with law enforcement, but for most situations this type of training can backfire. I have trained dogs for many years and have seen this training backfire more than once. Your dog once bonded to you will protect you when the time comes. I have seen quite a few dogs taught to protect that had problems with the "off switch". When the time comes, your dog will know what to do. The training has it's place with professionals, however novice owners can soon get over their heads with these high prey highly protective trained dogs. Trust me, decent obedience training, communication and bonding with your dog is the best type of protection training for the average person. My best doberman Max had a heart of gold. He was a cream puff, loved everybody, loved all people, children, kittens, puppies and went everywhere with me. Everybody loved Max. I remember a time when my neighbor was telling me that Max would never protect me from an intruder and he said " I could attack you right now and your dog would lick me for it...", I told him I had confidence that Max would know the difference and I turned my back to open my door. My neighbor rushed at me pretending he was going to attack me. Max body blocked the guy, grabbed his hand with his teeth and all his hair was standing on end and he looked like an attack dog. I told my neighbor his move was incredibly stupid, but I did learn something that day.. Max DID know the difference and he protected me. Max also never let my neighbor pet him again. I also found out later that my neighbor was a wife beater. Trust your dog, but I would skip the attack training if that were my dog. If you are still scared, invest in a nice security system and have the dog as back up protection and companionship. best wishes.. PS your dog is gorgeous, love the photos.
 
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Wishing you the best with your new girl. She looks like a fantastic dog and I bet she will be everything you want her to be. Good luck with her training. She is a beautiful rotty and I just LOVE her new collar, very classy.
 
Dogs are intuitive and I know that when I had my Rottie Ebony people always commented on how "huge" she was, etc.....and yet the most lovely, friendly dog I have ever owned. Would she protect me? Maybe, but her looks and size alone never had to put that to the test.......

I'm sure she would have.

I have a Lab who is the sweetest, kindest fella you could want (Why can't I find a human guy like him...?
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)At Nationals quite a few years ago, we had him and two JRTs with us. People had been coming and going through our aisle all week long, nobody ever made a peep. This older guy came down the aisle, and all three dogs went crazy, barking and snarling. Even the Lab. Here he wasn't with the show but a panhandler. We sent him on his way, and the dogs went back to normal. They KNOW.

Lucy
 
Thank you EVERYONE for the replies. Whether you agree with my decision or not I am learning from your thoughts and it all gives me more to think about.

I haven't decided on the extent of training Dobby and I will do but mostly because that's not really up to me, it's up to what the professional thinks is reasonable and safe while accomplishing my goal - never, NEVER having another person feel safe enough to come into MY HOME while I'm sleeping just a few feet away again. Never. Period. It's one of the most helpless feelings I've ever had. Unfortunately, my LGD slept through the entire event. The intruder came in my back door which is only accessible from my backyard which is where she was sleeping the whole time. She's wonderful at keeping a coyote, fox or stray dog away from the horses, but has zero sense of responsiblity when it comes to strangers and my property. It's odd...if she's outside of the fencing and someone stops and tries to pet her she barks and barks and won't let them pet her. If she's in the backyard or one of the pastures or the barn, she wags her tail and wants to be petted by everyone - including strangers. Just the way she is.

And thank you for the compliments on Dobby. She's a lovely girl with the exception of (as of tonigt) the four pair of shoes she's chewed up.
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Need to work on that.

For those that have a continued interest in how this works I will post as I know more. And thank you again, very much, for all the thoughts, well wishes and cautions. I am taking them all in and giving them all consideration.
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Its good that Rob understands exaxtly how you feel and will have your best interest at heart so good luck with the training. Did they ever get any leads on who this was that came into your house? That is such a violation I can't even imagine what it was like for you. I have a big stick by my bed. Not a baseball bat, but a big hickery stick to clunk somebody with if it ever happened to me but I think if it did, I'd freeze out of pure fear or pee my panties at best. You've got guts and I admire that.
 

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