Trying to understand what to test....

[Sandee]

If I understand the explanation that I read on UC Davis, my horses (below) Silver Dapple would probably be Ee (black base) with Silver dilution (considering his overall color and the fact that 3 foals by him 2 were silver like him from black mares and the 3rd was "sorrel" like the mare) He also seems to pass Appy (only 2 of 3 foals are living and they both show outwards signs of Appy --not from the mares) His tobiano was not passed to one of his foals so Toto.

Now the mare I want to breed to is Bay pinto with roaning so Ee, AA or Aa (she not only has the points dark but has ermine marks too) I'm thinking the roaning on her back may be sabino but ???

According to UC charts I have a 37% chance of getting another bay and a 37% chance of getting a black. However their chart doesn't take the silver into account so IF the foal was black (or even if it was bay) IN YOUR OPINION would it be the "silver" color?

Also I'd appreciate the suggestions as to what you would have these two tested for if they were your horses.

Sorry the roaning is barely visible but when she's clipped there are white hairs interspersed from her white spot all the way to her rump.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

That mare is SO pretty!

I think that is Sabino roaning though, which may or may not be passed on. If he is h/Z for Black he has a 50% chance of Black and 50% chance of Red, same with Silver. What the foals he has had are does not really count as an h/Z stallion can throw all of one pattern, o/o 100 foals, but if the last one is solid then he is h/Z!

The only way to know for sure is test for Black and Silver and go from there.

Did I mention I think the mare is PRETTY????

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

First thing I noticed is you have no way of knowing if your stallion is heterozygous or homozygous for the silver gene. The fact that he has thrown a sorrel tells you he is Ee but the sorrel foal may have hidden silver which doesn't show on red so he could still be either ZZ or Zz (I think those are the correct symbols for silver) Now the mare is black based but is she Ee or EE along with the agouti which could be AA or Aa. You could test for LWO to be sure since either could carry it altho it is not specifically indicated in their appearance. Then there is a test for sabino (SB1) that may or may not tell you something about the mares color. If it were me I would test the stallion for silver and the mare for red/black and agouti. Someone else might think of something I missed.

oh yeah, LOVE that mare

 

[Ashley]

What are you seeing for appy traits? I ask because I have seen anything appy about your stallion.

 

[ohmt]

Ashley-you can see in the picture he has mottling around his muzzle and eyes. Also, I've seen a picture of one of his foals that is a blanketed appy I believe. The OP can correct me on that, but has definitely passed on appy.

I agree with Reignmaker-test the stallion for silver. You already know he is heterozygous for black and tobiano and he does not have agouti. Test the mare for black and agouti (unless she has produced a red or black foal in the past, in which case you would know she is heterozygous for them, or if you know the colors of her parents. If either doesn't have agouti then you know she's heterozygous for that and if either is red then she is heterozygous for black).

Pretty horses by the way!!

 

[Bunnylady]

What are you seeing for appy traits? I ask because I haven't seen anything appy about your stallion.

Ditto. Silvers often have mottled skin and striped hooves, some pintos have visible sclera. While they are considered Appy traits, they don't spell "Appy" by themselves; is there something else on the foals that we can't see on the stallion?

I've seen a picture of one of his foals that is a blanketed appy I believe

Ah. An Appy blanket (not a funky Tobi white patch) would certainly have to be from Appy genetics.

I'd be tempted to test for Tobiano anyway - don't I remember someone that had a horse with no white on it that tested Hz for Tobiano?

 

[Sandee]

Ditto. Silvers often have mottled skin and striped hooves, some pintos have visible sclera. While they are considered Appy traits, they don't spell "Appy" by themselves; is there something else on the foals that we can't see on the stallion?

Ah. An Appy blanket (not a funky Tobi white patch) would certainly have to be from Appy genetics.

I'd be tempted to test for Tobiano anyway - don't I remember someone that had a horse with no white on it that tested Hz for Tobiano?

Here are his too living foals: First one looked just his dam when born

as a baby-

Same one as a 3 yr old:

Second one looked just like the stallion at birth:

Same colt at 2 or 3

 

[Double T]

Use the Animal genetics foal color predictor, they take you through everything possibel for the color, also a good learning tool when you get the final result to kind of figure out what they may or may not carry. I agree on the silver thing, as red can hide it. Being black he'd only carry the black agouti or aa, as if he carried a Bay or Brown it would show. I'm no good on the app genetic and still learning the pinto ones so can't help there. The mare, how do you know she is Ee?

 

[ohmt]

Sandee, the sorrel son of his is actually a silver bay. I would test your stallion for black as well as silver to see if he is homozygous/heterozygous. Mare is sabino and tobiano, not roan so you can cross that one off. Aren't these colors/patterns deciphering fun??

 

[Ashley]

Sandee, the sorrel son of his is actually a silver bay. I would test your stallion for black as well as silver to see if he is homozygous/heterozygous. Mare is sabino and tobiano, not roan so you can cross that one off. Aren't these colors/patterns deciphering fun??

I have seen the stallion in person. While he does have "appy" traits they are also very common in silvers and what I have seen on him I dont consider appy traits. Also the second foal of his, I dont beleive they are appy spots either, more like bird catcher spots I think they are called.

 

[ohmt]

Ashley, there are many forms of minimal appy characteristics. I've got an appy mare-solid black with striped hooves and that's it. Not mottling, no varnish, no sclera. She gave me a blanketed appy filly last year by a solid sorrel kahoka stallion (zero appy background). Also, half of my herd seems to be silver now and while, yes, they do have striped hooves, not one that isn't appy has mottling. Maybe that's just mine though. I know greys commonly have the mottling, but I don't think I've seen a silver with mottling (that isn't appy). Maybe it's just the picture though....does he have mottling? Also, what about the silver bay son that is now a varnish. That is not roan, that's definitely varnish. Appy dam by chance?? Those are definitely not birdcatcher spots on the other son either. He has an even distribution on both sides of his rump...those are appy spots.

 

[Sandee]

Ashley, there are many forms of minimal appy characteristics. I've got an appy mare-solid black with striped hooves and that's it. Not mottling, no varnish, no sclera. She gave me a blanketed appy filly last year by a solid sorrel kahoka stallion (zero appy background). Also, half of my herd seems to be silver now and while, yes, they do have striped hooves, not one that isn't appy has mottling. Maybe that's just mine though. I know greys commonly have the mottling, but I don't think I've seen a silver with mottling (that isn't appy). Maybe it's just the picture though....does he have mottling? Also, what about the silver bay son that is now a varnish. That is not roan, that's definitely varnish. Appy dam by chance?? Those are definitely not birdcatcher spots on the other son either. He has an even distribution on both sides of his rump...those are appy spots.

The dam of the "varnish" colt is the same color as he was in the baby picture. She appears to be a chestnut with some roaning. The dam of the dapple colt was solid black and her owner was positive there was no appy in her background. HOwever, my stallion is 3 generations removed from Orion. He has mottling on his privates and around his mouth ( although that didn't show much before he was 3).