Trouble in my pasture: Timmy needs help!

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Marty

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All my horses have always gotten along. No one dominates, they are all just very good friends and never fight and I mean never.

Baby Timmy has made it into the big field now for over a week and almost everyone loves him. He's been accepted gracefully by everyone, except one little brat witch!

This brat has been chasing him from day one. I've watched it daily and it's bothering the heck out of me. Jerry tells me to leave it alone, that he has to learn how to handle himself but not fair, he's too little! She is not biting or kicking at him or making contact, but she is scarring him all the time. She singles him out and then chases him and runs the heck out of him and he gets frantic trying to run from her with all the speed he can get up. Today, she ran him down the hill and he could not find Holly and he was screaming for her. Holly is no longer being protective and doesn't seem to care about this. She's too busy grazing. When he finds her, he runs under her to hide and then rears all over her as if to say "Mommy where were you?" It's so sad! I went out and soon as he heard my voice he ran right into my arms and was shaking and he didn't want me to let him go. I just squatted down and held him. That poor baby can't take this.

I couldn't stand it a minute longer and I pulled that brat from the herd and put her by herself in a paddock and she screamed her head off all day long. I do not want her back out there with him again. I am so shocked because this is such a loving filly but I am furious and right now I feel that I want to shove her up on Mona's auction and would probably take any bid I got on her I am that mad. Let me know if you want a horse!

I do have plenty of paddocks so there is not a problem of me keeping anyone separated. I just don't know why she is being so rotten, it was never in her nature before.

Not showing off here by no means but there is not one bite mark or scar or cut or anything on not one of my horses and I am not putting up with this now. I'm afriad she will run him into a gate or a fence next so I am not taking any chances.

If you have had this situation, what would you have done?
 
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I do things differently from what others do and I don't care if anyone thinks it's stupid. I keep my mares and foals separate from the others. The ONE time I decided I could put them together like other people do, the filly got kicked in the eye and it took months and $400 in vet bills. Never again. Once was enough.

Just the risk that a foal MIGHT get hurt is too much for me. I don't allow it.

Others let them all out together to work it out for themselves with success but this is what works for us. There's no right or wrong way.

If it were ME, I'd make a pasture just for Holly and her colt.

I had this thought.....Holly and they all were always part of the "herd" and Timmy is an outsider to this filly. He is new in the herd and I think she is making sure he knows his place, that she is "above" him in the pecking order. Yes, they should all get along fine and she should accept him and stop that in time. BUT IMO, he is too young and can't stick up for himself. I would still let him and Holly be in their own little pasture. You don't need him to get an ulcer.

Yes, I'm a worrier type horsie mom and I'm not sorry about it either.
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Thanks Robin I appreciate the input. They definately had their own field to themselves.

Holly and Timmy do have a very nice smaller field, (the nursery) and they were alone in there for the first three weeks, but I was encouraged by so many here to get Holly back into the herd with her friends that she missed so much and that would be good for Timmy also to socialize. He would have young ones in there too that would play with him. And they do! The younger fillies, Merry Beth and Chrissy especially love to play with him and scratch him. He does love being with them and he also loves to pretend to nurse on Silver Belle! They interact with him beautifully and so do the older mares, all execpt "the brat."

So little by little I slowly introduced one horse at a time into their field, changing the horses every couple of days, until they all got to know Timmy one on one.

Then from there I began to put two horses in, then three, and so on and everything seemed fine. So I kept them all together until that one mare started in on him, like I said.

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I just added to my post Marty!
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But I didn't see your post when I did.

Well, maybe put the brat and a friend in a different pen until Timmy is older and can stick up for himself?

Whatever you do, I know things will turn out fine!
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I agree with REO.

He is too little to stick up for himself. Someone has to. If he is terrified so much that he is shaking and screaming he could very well run through a fence or......

All the stress could lead to stress related illnesses or conditions.

I had a little colt that would chase his little half sister like that. He and his mom had to go to their own fence. I was scared to death of a little broken leg or neck.
 
I'd leave the "brat" in her own field. After a week, try her back and see if she's learned. If not, take her out for about 2 weeks. It is important that Timmy learn herd dynamics and if all others are fine with him, let him mature with them and the "brat" be given some "...time out..." She'll probably chill out with this. But, will give the foal time to adjust and age while she's been sidelined. You might try them both on leadlines and try to get her to chill out with him.

You are right, she's jealous.

This is why I try to always have two foals, not a single, whenever I can.
 
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Myself, I would remove the "chaser" and leave the mare and her foal in w/the otherwise peaceable herd.

This year, I had a bit of a problem w/my gelding, Mouse, who would chase Lark and bother her, but I am lucky in that her dam is the meanest little thing and she defended that filly over and over, and Mouse has the marks to prove it.

I watched them carefully and never did leave them when I could not be home to watch and make sure nothing got out of hand.

Since the mare is not defending her colt, I'd separate that mare that is chasing him and let him have a reprieve. There will be time enough for him to establish his place in the herd when he's older.

I know how you feel when you're mad at them like that. I had a mare reject her colt once and I wanted to just send her packing on down the road that day, because I was so angry w/her.

Liz M.
 
This is not such a big deal, Marty. Some horses just don't like foals. Keep the brat and a friend in a seperate paddock... and let Timmy hang with the rest of the herd, seeing as they are all compatible. We have a mare here who seems to hate the foals when they are very young - I found this out when she grabbed a baby by the blanket and tossed her into the air. Now Whisper the baby-hater stays with a bunch in one field and the babies & moms a few others stay in the other pasture. That is - until the foals get to be about 2 months old... and then Whisper ccould care less about them..... and everything is copacetic.
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This afternoon she was in the same pasture as the weanlings - happily enjoying a session of mutual grooming with one of them....
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We follow the same practice as Robin - our wet mares are in one pasture and dry mares in another. We do not mix dry and wet mares although I know that many do so very successfully.

I agree with the two options provided, separate the chaser and give her a friend or pull out Timmy and his Mommy. To me the risk is too great to keep him in with the chaser.
 
Even though I haven't been through this yet, and pray I don't end up with the problem, I keep thinking Ginger will be my trouble when the foals come. She bosses Oliver around and Promise.

But when I first read your title my brain took me back to Lassie. "Timmy's in trouble."

Hope evrything works out.

Fran
 
Depending on how submissive she is to you, and how much time you want to spend at it,..you can get out there and "be the dominate mare" until she straightens her act out, since Holly isnt standing up for him any more.. It may take several days of working at it, but it may just work to get her to accept his presence also. In the meantime until you are convinced that she's not going to chase him, or until he gets bigger, I would continue to seperate her.
 
The first question I had was where was the brat's standing in the herd before Timmy joined in? Was she at the bottom? Near the bottom? She may be defending her spot in the pecking order. Horses readjust whenever you add one, regardless of what it is. They need to juggle order around until everyone is comfortable with their position. And those at the bottom really hate to give that up to a BABY!!!

Some just accept the babies along with their re-introduced moms. Others say, no, I'm not giving an inch, even to this KID!

We once had a mare that would periodically decide she was in charge. Easy going the rest of the time, but every once in a while, she decided she was taking over. After I had her a while, I learned that was her way. So.........when she'd have these "fits of superiority," I'd stick her in an adjoining paddock by herself. She was right next to the others, just couldn't push anyone around. Sometimes, I'd keep her there a few days, other times, a few weeks....no kidding. I'd just try adding her back again, and if she wasn't ready, she'd go back to solitary.

Her regular position in the herd was mid-level.

Sounds mean, but it allowed me to keep a mare that otherwise would have had to leave. We have a real peaceful herd here & trouble-makers need to learn to get along or say so-long.
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Sounds harsh, I know, but realistic.
 
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Marty

I can surely sympathize I keep mares and new foals separate for quite awhile and then put foals together. They can see each other but no chance of anyone getting hurt. I too am a worrier and wont watch anyone really being hurt. I have been lucky enough that 3 of my four mares were all boss mares where they came from and it was very hard integrating them. One of them still isnt in with other mares because she is such a snot. She is with our 2 year old filly and they get along great but she is totally mean to any other grown mare. No matter how many times I tried she wont give in and its almost like stallions when she gets in with any other grown mare. So no your not alone ours are also still separated and Ive had the same herd for two years now.
 
Marty,

I'd pull "the brat" with perhaps one other from the herd and if possible put them in a paddock next door to Holly's group so there is still contact through the fence.

MA
 
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Poor Timmy!

There's some terrific advice here, from many years' experience. Your precious little fella is too young to HAVE TO learn herd dynamics and I'd pull the chaser from the pasture for solitary.

It may sound more humane to put her in with a buddy....but what if the non-offending buddy likes being with the herd. Give it a few days and allow Timmy to work/learn his way through the herd's pecking order. My guess is that the chaser is insecure with her position and wants to bully the "upstart kid". In a few days, Timmy will be established and she'll have to start from the bottom.

Just an idea. Please keep us posted!

Cindy
 
Thanks for the input. I'd rather be safe than sorry and I am taking your advise. I'm not one to wait for an accident looking for a place to happen.

I did some manuevering around and decided to remove a lot of the horses actually.

I am leaving Timmy and Holly only with Merry Beth and Silver Belle. Silver Belle is our senior mare and such a great suragate. She is shy and timid and loves Timmy to be closeby and enjoys his nibbles on her. Merry Beth just loves Timmy to pieces and is his best friend from the get-go and they play so well together. She's not a ruff horse and also is quiet. This way he has the best of both worlds, a steady older mare, and also he still has a young one to run and play with. Blasted Holly the pig just cares about grazing! I think a bomb could go off and she wouldn't come up for air.

I put "the brat" back in the dry lot with a buddy who could stand to be off the grass for a while anyhow. They are way too fat and don't need to be in the big field.

The rest are in another field. They are easier to manage like that anyhow.

Everyone can see everyone so all is happy and quiet this morning. I must get you some pictures!

Whew!

I just realized that I have no trouble catching Timmy when he's loose. He does run to me every time I call him and when he sees me coming, he loves to run to me for scratching. What a love.
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Hi Marty.

I leave my mares and foals together with the herd. If I have a chaser, then I pull only that horse that is the chaser and put it by it's self. As you know horses are herd animals. If they don't want to play nicely with the foals, then I put that chaser by it's self so that it gets lonely. Like others have said, after a couple of weeks I put that chaser back into the herd and normally one of the others protect that foal if the mare won't as the other mares really do take a liking to the youngsters and act as a big sister or aunt to those foals. And the one that has been alone almost always seems to act differently as they are more interested in regaining their position in the herd than chasing the foal. The only reason I don't run a bunch of foals and wet mares in one herd by themselves is that I don't have more than 1 foal per year, so the only way to teach herd dynamics is to put them all together. But I do it very gradually and make sure that the head of the herd is the last one to get put in with that foal.
 

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