Traces...tight or loose?

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I might get yelled at for this one but- I agree with what Reignmaker is saying about 'opening up the shoulders' so the horse has more freedom of movement but how do you think they get a horse to do that? You train the horse to correctly move off of the hind end..an no it's not cruel..that's how a horse should move, with impulsion- back to front. In every discipline a horse needs to correctly use their 'ring of muscles' or else they won't be able to perform athletically. A horse needs to use 'the ring' to coil its loin to be able to push off for a jump, western pleasure horses use impulsion to push off at the lope, dressage horses need to be able to push off to preform piaffes or tempis. What do these all have in common? They all have to PUSH off. A driving horse should use his hind end to push off the ground into a trot and working trot. Horses work back to front, pushing off from the hind end to the front end. Many of them push themselves into the bridle, not the breastplate, which I would rather see but I know a lot of people would disagree. So why are the traces loose? They are loose because the horse is not heavy on the forehand and doesn't lean on the breastplate to pull the cart. They push themselves into the bridle. They aren't pulling the bridle, the are pushing themselves into the tack. I hear it time and time again when I am at the barn since my school is mainly dressage; the horse needs to engage its hind quarters to have enough impulsion to be able to settle into the bridle. Since the horse naturally stands with 60% of its weight on the front end, it needs to be trained on how to use the hind end so the horse is balanced.

In my honest opinion, it's harder on the horse to push directly on the breastplate and pull with all the weight on the traces. The horse will be heavy on the forehand which is when most horses stumble.It's the same concept as you trying to push a car..it's not easy. It's hard to get that forward impulsion when the horse is restricted. I'm NOT saying every horse should have loose traces. Many will not be loose and the horse will still be working off the hind end, a lot also depends on the length of your traces compared to your horse.

Coming from the show ring, I feel like a lot of people pick on and talk negatively about things that are "wrong" and "incorrect" but the people who show focus on working the horse so they build the muscle to do the job correctly. You can't take a horse with no prior training, right from the field and expect it to engage his hind end along with having a strong enough scalenus and longis colli muscle to hold a head set, those are muscles that need to be worked...I don't thinks its cruel to train your horse to correctly use those muscles so they can preform the task at hand.

I would never wrap the traces around the shafts, it's a safety issue. I was at a show where a judge went up to someone who did that and told her not to.
Everything in bold is correct as I understand it. I think where you're getting such strong disagreement is the idea that because the horse is working UP into the bridle, he cannot also be working FORWARD into the breastcollar. Granted, it is harder with a breastcollar. If harnessed with a neck collar as was traditional, the horse would be pushing up into his shoulders and have both freedom of movement and ease in pulling his load. With a breastcollar (and a thin one at that) the horse really has to drop and coil his hindquarters to get up under a load or needs to be able to put his head forward and down. Where I think you're mistaken is the belief that a horse who is leaning into the breastcollar is by definition heavy on his forehand. The two have nothing to do with each other. Yes, a horse who is heavy on the forehand will probably appear to be leaning forward over the breastcollar as he dumps his energy into the ground through his forelegs. He'd look like that under a rider too, or lunging untacked! But a horse working properly from back to front should have no problem pushing into that breastcollar at the same time he elevates the root of his neck and reaches forward into the bridle.

If his body is going forward, the breastcollar and by definition the cart are going to go with him. The question of how he uses his body is totally separate from how he makes the cart move. The easiest and most ergonomic way for him to make the vehicle move is by pushing against the load with his front end. Period. The best way for him to use his body for long-term soundness (and in some opinions, aesthetic beauty) is by using his ring of muscles to coil his hind end and use those large motor muscles to carry the weight of his body. Period. And conveniently for all of us, those aren't mutually exclusive.
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Another potential misconception I see in this thread comes up in regards to that photo. It was stated that he is using his hind end, and in fact he does appear to be coiling his loins and contracting his underline. What he is NOT doing is relaxing the opposite side of the ring of muscles. Contracture all over, top and bottom, is nothing but tension and cannot create free movement. It can create flashy movement certainly, not but free and loose movement. His neck is very compressed (witness the wrinkles along the lower crest), his jaw is tight and his spine is scrunched in. Now I'm not even going to address the idea of whether free movement or flashy movement is the better goal as that isn't particularly relevant here; it's apples to oranges and some people prefer citrus. Not my issue! LOL. But I do want to correct the idea that because he has tipped his pelvis and gathered his body he is working from back to front in a proper dressage frame as described in the original post I'm quoting. Dressage (should that be your goal, and I only state it as such because you're using dressage terms here,) is about teaching the horse rhythm, relaxation, suppleness and balance. They have to let go of tension in the back in order to be able to lift the spine, and they must lift the spine in order to push the poll forward into the bridle. Now as it happens I do think at the moment this photo was taken the horse was probably being asked for a transition to a slower gait or checked back from an attempt to break or something which would have caused a lot of that compression, and we need to remember that a photograph is only one moment in time. But there is no way this horse is working back to front AT THAT MOMENT. His hind end wasn't trailing but if you tip that photograph to be level his weight appears to be squarely over that foreleg anyway. That is true of an alarming number of minis. And frankly, I'm not sure it really matters in the greater scheme of things as if you aren't trying to train for something, why should you care that your animal doesn't do it?
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That would be like me getting upset that my western pleasure horse doesn't piaffe or that my dressage horse can't trot a 2 minute mile. Um, hello, not what they were bred or trained for? To each their own. But I want to make sure the difference is clear between contracting the underline, lengthening the topline and truly using the hindquarters and simply compressing the body.

Leia
 
I'm going to enter this discussion again with a question.

I put Bridget into the regular Jerald runabout today with the Camptown breast collar. (She has only been in the sulky before, so different harness and greater weight to "push" today.) She is the same height as Dapper Dan, and her back strap and crupper fit her the same. But she is much slighter in build than he is, so I had to adjust the breast collar. I did not shorten the traces since both horses seem to be the same nose-to-tail. The singletree appears to be moving freely back and forth, though not with as great a motion as when DD is hitched. It appears the traces are not taut, but perhaps they are taut enough? I got out to check once and it appears to be adjusted all right.

What should I be looking for if I am driving alone and have no one (knowledgable) to observe if the traces have the correct tautness?
 
I am part of a driving club in NY and have been driving for years. Your horse should definitely be pulling with the breast collar and traces, not the saddle or tugs and the traces should not look loose or wrapped around the shafts because if they are then your horse can not pull correctly.
 

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