Thoughts on a good drive today, from an "improving" driver

[studiowvw]

I took Lacey out for a drive today down the rail trail. Very relieved, it was a good improvement.

Thinking about why it was better than the last few drives...

I guess the best results come from doing a program of spending time with her and Diesel in the last couple of weeks - I've been taking them for 2 mile walks together (to improve fitness of all three of us).

Seems our worst drives are when I yank her out of her do-nothing routine, put her in the trailer and take her to an event (no big surprise there). Our best drives are when I've spent some time improving our relationship (while not hitched).

Deerflies are gone so I can now actually get out there with them!

The last few drives she's been pulling like a freight train - or I guess I'm pulling like a freight train but what do you do when she is wound up too tight and her legs won't quit?

I've been watching some of my friends drive and they seem to sit relaxed with their hands down on their knees, horse is relaxed. It's the first drive since I wrecked my shoulder again a couple of weeks ago, so a good time to try that.

I already know I get the best stops and slowdowns just by thinking them. The worst ones are when I'm yelling WHOA and pulling with a whole lotta pull - but as I said, what do I do when all she wants to do is run? When she's already been running for an hour - she doesn't get tired.

I think it is in both our heads - we both get wound up. I watched video of us from a few weeks ago - she does everything I ask but her preference would be to just canter or trot FAST!

I also realize that I get bored when she walks (very bad)!

So my plan was to stay soft, squeeze one rein at a time (from previous advice here last spring), require her to walk at the beginning, and avoid getting hardline and impatient. Even though I must have asked her to walk about 50 times, then she would jump right back up into a jog, trot or racing trot. I used the technique of allowing her to make the mistake, correcting, then going back to neutral and allowing her to make the decision to make the mistake again. Over and over and over and over............!!!!! But I did not become impatient. When she was ignoring me, I would just pull her head further around with one rein until she slowed down, then release again.

Anyways it was a great drive, probably one of our better ones. Her head stayed down and she mostly stayed soft - so did I!

I know I've created some of these issues myself, but I guess the only way through it is to go on figuring things out.

I went to one day of a Nate Bowers clinic last week - he never is impatient with a horse and they just start trusting him. He reiterates that you get further by releasing quicker, even if it's too soon. That's my philosophy too, but somehow having to use a bit has messed me up - I haven't ridden with a bit in 10 years.

Oh well, there's my thoughts. We went the furthest yet down the trail - about 3 miles total. Such a wonderful thing to be able to do. I realized as she was trotting along towards home that I was living a dream I've had almost my whole life - so many times it didn't work out, but here I am now with my perfect horse, a pretty nice cart, a pretty nice harness, a perfect day and... WOW!!!

 

[Rhondaalaska]

Great job.

It sounds like you are finding your way.

 

[Renolizzie]

So cool that you had a great day on the road. A day like that makes the work worth it.

 

[studiowvw]

Yes - my horse is perfect but I'm not

Some days I'm better than others - that was a good one.

Hoping to have a few more of those, I want to start tying Diesel behind the cart since he needs exercise too.

 

[Marsha Cassada]

Would it help to teach to slow down if you had some obstacles, like cones? Doing figure eights is good too. I have a headstrong horse also and when we first start the figure eights he is inflexible, but by the time we've done a few he has figured out what I want and enters into the spirit.

So I suggest some obstacle work, instead of just straight trail drives. I love the straight drive best, and I love the speed. I think walking is boring also! But my horse works better for me if we do obstacle work and cones sometimes.

The release-thing is very effective with him, too. That concept was so hard for me to get through my thick head.

Such a free feeling, going down the road behind the horse! So glad you had a lovely day!

 

[studiowvw]

Thanks for the ideas! We have done cones a few times and I love it - she seems to get into it too. She is very responsive.

One of the things that sets her off is bumpy ground - I am thinking the cart jolts her when we are going over bumps. She doesn't get freaked on flat surface like road and trail.

My riding/driving ring is very bumpy in spots - I've mowed the whole thing yesterday with the push mower, now have to figure out how to smooth out the rough areas. I might take the harrow around and see if I can get it smoothed out, but I'm afraid it'll mess up the good parts.

Maybe the tractor blade on the bumpy parts?

Anyways, driving in there usually gets her freaky - I think it is the bumpy ground. I do large ovals, 20 meter circles, fig 8s around the ring, and transitions.

But then another thing that can ruin her mood is me seeing that she isn't on the curve (especially going to the right - head is pointing left, shoulder pointing right) - then I am trying to encourage her to curve. Of course I don't have a clue how to fix this, so I try doing what I think I'm supposed to do. She gets fired up and freaked out and speeds up. One would think that letting her wear off some energy might help, but she can go for an hour on adrenalin and not quit.

The only way I've been able to get her out of this freaky race-race-race is to go out on the road where I am not messing with her curve (!!) and the surface is smoother.

I decided to avoid this that I'll let her go around corners as well as she can, without trying to fix it. The 20 meter circle is something we can handle.

I also have her bend while in the halter, not hitched, on circles.

On our drive yesterday, where we turned around, she had to do the spin due to the narrow trail. I took my time asking her to do this and tried to allow her to think her way through. She did quite well and did not feel she had to tear off at a trot coming out of it. Sometimes this can really set her off too - it is more of not handling the bit correctly, which probably makes her feel very restricted.

Today I took her and Diesel for our 2 mile walk for fitness - I sent Diesel out in front on lines - haven't done that since I did about 10 days with him on line driving back in Dec/Jan. He remembered and line drove for about half a mile. The rest of the time I tried different formations, although one would be line driving, and the other one lining. We did the tandem formation a few times, also team formation and even one out in front of me and one behind. I'm aiming for driving tandem with them - Lacey will be out front because she's very controllable even when she's on adrenalin - at least controllable in direction even though speed may be stuck in high range

Anyways, the more driving we do, the better we should become (one would hope!) The biggest problem is not being able to drive through the summer because of the deerfly plague.

 

[Marsha Cassada]

Sounds like you are way advanced of me.

I took a few classes, and one thing that helps me cue my horse to turn and be straight is to cue the hind leg with my whip. Turning to the right, cue the right hind leg as I ask for the turn with the bit. The horse moves the hind away from the cue, under himself, and makes a better right turn.

Cool, that you are thinking of working them tandem!

 

[studiowvw]

Thanks - I'll try that. Best to start that while line driving to be able to coordinate with the leg.

Likely doing more line driving with the bit instead of halter could improve my bit handling. We're also supposed to take a lesson in the next couple of weeks, just need to schedule it.

I've been editing more of the video from the Mustang event where we did the miniature horse demos - this is Lacey doing the cones. She doesn't get freaked throughout this. One of our members did some announcing throughout the demos.

I also have a 10 minute video of some of us "competing" through cones and the water hazard, plus some line driving and dressage long reining, but still waiting for last person to give permission to make it public. We did have fun

 

[paintponylvr]

You mention Nate Bowers and I know/am familiar with the other work you've done...

What if you apply the riding exercises from Parrallelli and Clinton Anderson? One is the clover leaf - where you use one barrel (marker of some sort) in the center of your driving space. You use that as your "anchor" to ground drive/drive/ride a 4 leaf clover. You go past the barrel to the out side of your area (best if fenced at first - even if in pasture). Pick a direction to turn (say right), go up a ways and again turn right, turn right again to be facing the barrel and continue past the barrel to the outside of your area again, turn right, turn right towards the barrel and go past it again. You start out doing this as speed control - they will get both fit and tired doing this exercise - but they also learn that they can/should stay the same speed etc. Once they understand that they are staying at the speed you have them at and there's no reason to "stress" about it, then you start working on how the turns are being made. There are other exercises too, I will have to look thru some of my books - which are packed at the moment. What's neat about this exercise is that there are nice, definite curves (1/2 circles) and then straight lines. I'm not good at describing this one, I have to draw it on paper or in the sand before I try it or I get "lost"...

There are several others.

Another one is a "flower" - you put one marker in the center and 4 or 5 around it with plenty of distance between them. Remember the "Spirograph"? You, you horse and your cart are describing the design as you loop continuously around the markers always going back to center before starting another one... Each marker basically is the tip of each petal. To complete your flower - every petal is done the same direction similar to the clover. They are just longer and narrower than the clover (or whatever shape/size you want - the main thing is to do each petal the same way/size). This will give you and her LOTS of practice on turning. I think I started out doing about 2 repetitions of the whole pattern - it was a huge set up and it required a lot of trotting and worked really well for us. I made a smaller pattern several times and then ground drove and long lined them thru it. I didn't go anywhere near as far as they did, but I still got plenty of work as well.

Cherry Hill has lots of exercises in her arena riding book that can also be applied to driving - i'm pretty sure several will help with the turning and then with the "freaking out" as time goes on. They will also help improve your control, timing and reinsmanship - which may be part of her issue (though it sounds like she's having issues with the shafts and the way the cart bounces when over rough ground - she CAN still learn to accept that)...

It sounds like you are doing great, though, overall. That is so awesome.

 

[studiowvw]

OMG!!!! I never thought of doing the clover leaf while driving. When I read that, I think my mouth dropped open

That should really help with focus. Those are so totally patterns that I can do and should help us.

I can see that both of those would help with consistency of the speed and the turning. Once she figures the pattern out, she should find confidence in it.

I've had Cherry Hill's arena exercises book for years too, will have to dig it out.

I do think that the jolting of the cart upsets her - either the shafts bump her because they're a bit close for her (getting better as she slims down); or the shafts bounce in the tugs; or my weight shifts with the bumps; or my hands start bumping the bit because I'm being jolted too.

I'm thinking of getting some better suspension for the cart, which would help.

Awesome ideas - thanks so much. Off for another drive now, hope we do as well as the other day!

 

[Performancemini]

We have a very excellent horse trainer (natural and kind too) who says if you are having troubles in the cart or on top (riding animal) then you need to go back to ground work. The horse has to be respecting you (whatever it is-such as responding to rein, etc.) on the ground before you can expect it in harness. If you have problems go back to ground work.

 

[paintponylvr]

Don't you just love "light bulb" moments????!!!!

OMG!!!! I never thought of doing the clover leaf while driving. When I read that, I think my mouth dropped open

 

[happy appy]

Where are you getting lessons? I agree with performancemini, more ground work never hurt anyone.

 

[paintponylvr]

My last lesson was a 3 day holiday type thing in SC with Kathy Bachelor in December 2012. I took a total of 6 ponies and then left one to get some work for several months.

My lessons at that time concentrated on my line/rein handling and how the girls responded as a pair - first hooked to my wagon and then hooked to her Marathon Vehicle (several folks thought my work harness was hilarious and it TRULY isn't meant for working with marathon vehicles). I also was introduced to both dressage and a couple of marathon obstacles. I did some things ok, got a lot of work on others and was basically given "home work". Then we also worked the other 4 - two as a second pair and that wasn't working so they were each worked individually and again was given ideas/pointers on what I needed to work on with both of them first as singles and then as a pair. The last two were worked individually on ground driving - 2x while I was there (and again the one young mare was left for schooling as a single and then hitched).

It was some major work for me. But it was a HUGE learning experience. I was supposed to go back in May, but couldn't work it out as I became majorly ill in April and stayed sick thru mid-June and also a bit into July.

Since then (Dec 2012) I've worked on each of them some, but have had many things happen - including the loss of one foal out of the mare that was part of the pair and her illness after; serious rain and hay issues that caused my other mare from that pair to lose a tremendous amount of weight after foaling (she's not been hitched or worked because of that); the mare from the 2nd pair also lost weight after foaling - her partner, our stallion Iggy, has had work individually and as a pair with their 3 yr old gelded son. One of the young mares has been sold, and the other came home early as she went thru 2 separate and distinct periods where she refused to eat in SC. When she came home, she refused to eat and it took some time to get her back to eating. I figured she needed some more time to mature and grow up - she's 4 but I felt like she was acting like a 2 yr old in both physical and mental maturity for a while...

I really enjoyed what I learned and added it to what I know. I want to go back and do more with Kathy - just have to be able to do so. I wanted my work style harness and that is what I have to work with, I won't be able to get any other type harness for a while (for pairs). I do have several individual pleasure type harness - two in mini size and one In slightly larger pony size that will fit most of mine. I now have all my carts repaired/refurbished and back at home - now I find I don't have time with my new job to get much drive time. All the rain this spring and thru out the summer created a lot of maintenance issues here - meaning a lot was done but not necessarily with the ponies with driving, LOL!

I also worked with several of my ponies with Mary Cody in Monroe, NC. She actually questioned me as to what I was looking for in training, lessons as she felt that my pair (and an extra single that I took for experience) were at a decent level of work and she wasn't able to give me many pointers/instruction at that time. She didn't charge me for regular lessons due to that and we chalked up most of what I did to getting more experience and enjoying another drivers' property and conversation. A neighbor of mine also hauled out with me to visit her - he DID get a lesson in ground driving his pair - working on major fine tuning. Then they were hitched with the harness he purchased from her and he/they got more work! It was a cold, blustery, long day but it was worth it!

This year, really hasn't had any more than that for instruction for me. I was hoping to get to another clinic or two or work with another instructor, but it hasn't happened yet. Right now, it may be awhile before it does as I work with what I have and go on. Next year, I WILL do my membership in the Moore County Driving Club (Southern Pines, Pinehurst and Aberdeen area of NC) and hope to do some clinics thru them. I won't have any new foals to worry about - and might be able to get some more of my "drivers" going. Of course, formal events may be out with the MCDC as I don't have appropriate harness or vehicles but I can work with what I have to a point. And if I can pull it off, I may have a mini mare ready for our first couple of "local", rated AMHR shows!! We will see what the next year holds for us.

Hmm, and I think this steals your post/thread - but it does answer your question...

 

[paintponylvr]

O DEAR!!! Once again I managed to confuse the OP (studioww) with happy appy and then proceeded to "steal the thread". SORRY!!

I can't remove the above post?

 

[happy appy]

Sorry about that paintponylvr. lol

Studioww had mentioned that she was getting lessons. I was just wondering where. I want to work on my pair and wanted to get in touch if they were local to us.

 

[studiowvw]

No prob, all interesting!

She is near Elgin, which is north-east-ish of Kingston by half an hour. She competes in CDEs.

If you want her number, let me know. Probably a bit far from you.

Performancemini, that is totally true about going back to ground work, or ground play. That's the place to solve the problems, not in the cart.

We had another good drive the other day - putting the time in is starting to improve things. Then today I took her over to my friend's place to drive, did not do any ground work (bad, bad, bad!!!), and when I got into the cart, guess who took over?

She was cheerful about it and having a good time and all went well, but yes, there would have been more respect if I'd taken the time to play through the games first.

How I solved it was to let her go at her speed (energetic trot) around the yard, then take her down into the field where she had to work harder, and then keep going until she offered to walk. I also had her following the other cart. They were walking, so she had to.

The groundwork/play is necessary - but I also need to improve my driving skills - unfortunately there are times when I have to experiment with the driving through the issues that are happening.

On our good drive the other day, I found that setting one hand against my leg and squeezing with the other fingers is something that will cause her to slow down (not fight). Setting my hand means I am not pulling. Pulling is something that is not useful. She just pulls back.

Also, allowing her to make the mistake, then correcting, then going to neutral, allowing her to make the mistake and correcting, etc. seems to be working. I think I only had to correct half as often as the previous drive. 25 corrections was way better than 50!

And I am always amazed that the best stops are when I just think it and focus on stopping until she stops. A lot of energy seems to be transmitted through the reins - obviously there are times when the energy I'm transmitting is speeding her up.

Also, these 2-mile walks, and 3-mile drives are already visibly slimming her down. So the equine nutritionist who told me jokingly that I should put her on a treadmill for 16 hours a day was a bit off! Even "working" at a walk for an hour can make a difference. I'm planning to increase the drives to 4 miles (2 out, 2 back) over the next week or two. If I could manage that every second day through the fall, it would be ideal.

 

[studiowvw]

Ok, we tried the flower petal exercise with one cone in the middle and 3 outside. I think this is a valuable exercise.

Lacey started out at her energetic trot and went around the whole pattern a couple of times - then she just gave up and started walking.

We went around the other way and the same thing happened. Great for turning, no fights about speed because you're always on a curve, plus thinking about where we were going.

There were 3 of us going around at the same time, which meant we had to watch out for each other. 2 of us in carts and one line driving.

Marj whose horse has been hitched now about 5 times did well too - a good exercise for improving turning.

I think it is an intense exercise and 2 times around the pattern is about all that should be expected.

After doing the pattern, both cart horses were happy to stand for a while. Great training for KC the newbie horse, and Lacey's motor was on idle!

Awesome - thanks, Paula.

 

[studiowvw]

More thoughts on our progress - me the "improving driver" & my mini with a big motor.

Well, it has been an interesting couple of weeks.

We had 5 or 6 drives over at my friend's place which have made a big difference.

One reason of course is driving more regularly. Great weather helps!

Another is that the yard has many landscape items to drive around and between, like the buildings, the gardens and the trees. She is very responsive to turning and where we are going, but not so responsive to how fast I want her to go. All the turns between and around things made her rate her own speed and be more receptive to suggestions from me about slowing down.

Then we also would take a spin down through the fields through the bushhogged trails for 15 or 20 minutes. The field is rougher and has uphills and downhills. The first few times she just wanted to go as fast as possible, but she has begun to accept slower trots and walks, as it is harder going. Rather than fight with her over her speed, several times I had her go behind my friend's cart, so she had to walk or trot slowly.

Then also we go around the flower petal pattern a couple of times each drive. Yes, she prefers to trot, but after a couple of patterns she will offer a walk instead of speeding up. The turns are getting better-looking from my perspective. I don't try to correct her body position, but the constant turning in the same direction has made an improvement. We haven't done the clover leaf pattern yet, still planning to try that, but of course that is even more demanding than the flower petal. Needs more space too.

Lastly, we went down the trail yesterday, close to 5 miles total. The best way to describe her is that she is not wound so tight any more LOL. Takes speed suggestions more willingly. I don't think I had to get firm at all. When I wanted her to stop, she would actually stop and stand without that urge to go-go-go. We also had several walks - I can hardly believe it

She got into a nice rhythmic trot and it felt like she could pretty much go all day. My friend's horse trots at a slower pace, so we would walk or stop to allow her to catch up. They both did really well for the distance.

Walking the last few hundred yards home to cool down was pretty amazing - not something she has accepted in the past.

I'd say instead of 80% fast trot and 20% me trying to get a slower speed, we had about 20% walking, 60% at a sensible trot and about 20% at a fast trot. Plus a canter for a couple of hundred feet.

So the exercises and variety helped a lot over the past couple of weeks. I usually did ground work/play before driving too.

We have also seen a great improvement in my friend's horse KC (trail was her 10th hitch). She has learned to handle hills, corners and cones, also has experienced slow & fast trots, cantering, and different terrain. All of this is great for us drivers too

Then we also got our other friend's mini started (2nd hitch the other day after a couple of weeks of daily preparation). She seems very sensible and learns fast, shows what she is thinking and seems to take things in stride.

So I guess my summing up is that I needed to give myself time and variety of driving to experiment with how to handle what comes up. We still have some basic issues (like running down every hill is not acceptable - I haven't quite figured out how to deal with that), and our communication is not always as light as I'd like, but getting better.

She needed time and variety of driving to start thinking, relaxing and maybe even bending. Sure is fun to drive.

 

[Gone_Riding]

Also, deep breath and relax! It's a proven fact that our horses pick up on our own tenseness and feed off it. And vice versa. I like the cloverleaf for teaching steadiness. It sounds like you are having fun and are both getting better at it!